bluto Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) The whole thing just does not stack up for me. It all appears too good to be true. In a nice fluffy world the concept is perfect. However we are in the middle of the worst global financial situation since the 1930s where both hard cash and time are major commodities. Yet it is being promoted as the saviour of our club. (Why have other larger clubs not tried it). Perhaps there are none that are financially stable enough to go this route. If they're several million £ in debt - as most are - then it could well be impractical. That said, once again Sid just proves he only posts on here to incite other supporters. I'll take the bait. What a ridiculous suggestion that discussing the issue and demanding answers at what sounds like a critical point in the deal is harmful. Imagine we had done the same as Reg Brealey planned his takeover. At present it looks like a couple of guys want to run a football club, without needing to put their own money in. I look forward to receiving more information on the issue. I totally agree. As much information as possible in the public domain is ALWAYS the best way forward. OK this may well be a wee diddy forum with little impact on reality but it is still a place where passionate (if occasionally wrong-headed!) believers in what is the best way forward for St Mirren gather. And I firmly believe it is healthier for Buddies to be openly discussing all aspects of any deal than for it to be conducted wholly behind closed doors in shadows by strangers. If Mr Atkinson genuinely wants the best for St Mirren then he should embrace the wholehearted support of Buddies and include them in the thinking about the way forward - which, (it appears to be presented by some), is VERY, VERY complicated... I'm sure if it was written in here in big letters some of us could figure it out. We're here to help. Edited February 8, 2011 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Judging by this you are no doubt a person of great intelligence. Your talents are clearly wasted on here. Perhaps you could manage a football club. I am glad I started what has turned into a worthwhile discussion (mainly). All this could be put to rest if Mr. Atkinson could tell us in detail the way he intends to raise the money. Which fund is it coming from and what is the mix of loan and debt. Please don't try to say its all a bit sensitive at the moment - this has been on the go for many months now. Remember that this appears to be public money being used to buy shares in a private company. All he has to do is read through this thread and answer the questions posed. My work here is done. Goodbye and goodnight. Looks like someone has personal issues with certain club officials. It really is a shame that what appears to be a concerned supporter, should address their concerns in such a childish and aggresive manner. It could be that others share the concerns - however, attacks on the club and its guardians completely belittles any genuine concerns the poster might actually have and will simply be dismissed as being a personal vendetta. It's a wee bit like Stu DICKson and his mad rants. Every now and then he actually makes some reasonable points; however, such is the nature his hatred for the club and the people running it all his points are dismissed out of hand. Anything "animal" posts on this subject will now be completely dismissed as a mad man's rant. Not a bad thing as he is just spouting shite. Edited February 8, 2011 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Sorry my point on CiC receiving tax breaks was badly worded. I meant that it was my understanding that that CiC's might be eligible for 50% relief on business rates through an application to join the Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR) scheme. I am sure I read that somewhere but it might be wrong !? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Judging by this you are no doubt a person of great intelligence. Your talents are clearly wasted on here. Perhaps you could manage a football club. I am glad I started what has turned into a worthwhile discussion (mainly). All this could be put to rest if Mr. Atkinson could tell us in detail the way he intends to raise the money. Which fund is it coming from and what is the mix of loan and debt. Please don't try to say its all a bit sensitive at the moment - this has been on the go for many months now. Remember that this appears to be public money being used to buy shares in a private company. All he has to do is read through this thread and answer the questions posed. My work here is done. Goodbye and goodnight. No you are right, none of it is sensitive. Most businesses in fact generally post all the details on public internet forums such as this one. Why not fire your accounts up here that you were looking at last night and we'll see how your business is doing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm sure if it was written in here in big letters some of us could figure it out. Some times you hit the right notes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) No you are right, none of it is sensitive. Most businesses in fact generally post all the details on public internet forums such as this one. Why not fire your accounts up here that you were looking at last night and we'll see how your business is doing ? It is not my accounts I was referring to but that of a company whose accounts I am preparing, and looking at the viability of a fairly complex business plan. I do this quite a lot - it's called a job, you should try it sometime instead of spending your life on here defending the financial plans of someone else. Especially when you don't seem to have the skill set needed to make the assessment required. Have you not heard of Companies House ? Lots of info here if you are interested in accounts. Reid Kerr have some pretty good courses in accountancy for beginners if you want to learn more. For example http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8031052277c4b848a8e5b0863e4d2fa8/compdetails As a shareholder I have a copy of the recent club accounts I was not looking to see Mr. Atkinson's accounts, that would be meaningless right now. i suspect there are none. Just an explanation of how he plans to get his hands on £2,000,000 of public money. PLEASE don't feel the need to reply to this. I want to get back to my real work. Edited February 8, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Judging by this you are no doubt a person of great intelligence. Your talents are clearly wasted on here. I am and yes they are. You behave like a total c**t, so I'll treat you like one. My work here is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 It is not my accounts I was referring to but that of a company whose accounts I am preparing, and looking at the viability of a fairly complex business plan. Excellent, well fire it up here then, I want to see it. Have you not heard of Companies House ? Companies house ? Never heard of it. It must be a really big house for all the companies to live in though. Sounds nice. As a shareholder I have a copy of the recent club accounts Consider me impressed ! I was not looking to see Mr. Atkinson's accounts, that would be meaningless right now. i suspect there are none. Just an explanation of how he plans to get his hands on £2,000,000 of public money. PLEASE don't feel the need to reply to this. I want to get back to my real work. Phone him and ask him and then you can stop wasting time being an arsehole on the internet and spend more time doing your super complex and important real work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I must admit... ...animal IS beginning to come across as very much like Lost Ud. Not the best of role models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) It is not my accounts I was referring to but that of a company whose accounts I am preparing... Blah dee blah dee blah, how f**king brilliant am I, blah dee f**king blah... PLEASE don't feel the need to reply to this. I want to get back to my real work. It'd not really in my nature to say this and would, if it weren't for the intended target, go against the grain. But - what an absolute cockjockey this man is. A more self-righteous, self-absorbed person I have never had the displeasure of witnessing. Consumed by his own self-importance I wouldn't be surprised if he had a shrine to himself in his spare-room and if he went in there once a day and cracked one off to a life-size commissioned portrait of himself. He is detestable beyond belief and I do hope that he decides that he is too superior to grace these forums again. In fact, let me point one thing out and make one request: no-one cares and get tae, ya fud. Edited February 8, 2011 by ktf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Even I've changed my mind. At 1st I thought animal was just looking for the same answers as myself and many others on here. 2nd thoughts,he seems to have some sort of hidden agenda. Maybe he was sacked as Mr Atkinsons accountant in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Even I've changed my mind. At 1st I thought animal was just looking for the same answers as myself and many others on here. 2nd thoughts,he seems to have some sort of hidden agenda. Maybe he was sacked as Mr Atkinsons accountant in the past. A self obsessed arsehole with a hidden agenda me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM1 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 "animal" is absolutely raging!!! : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Maybe he's hoping to drum his views in to us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Animal has a similar tone to London Bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Buddie Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 So, Mr. animal. Are you a Book-keeper, Accountant or Walloper? Please tell us. Because we are SO INTERESTED IN YOU AND YOUR HIGH POWERED JOB. Love, B&WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) While I wholly applaud those who choose to point out animals failings in a constructive manner, I have read past his seemingly vociferous and irritable rhetoric, and I feel he has asked some valid questions as to why Mr Atkinson wishes to involve himself in our club. Of what benefit is this venture to him? Is he indeed interested in the well being of our club or is this to be an ego trip without consequence? There are many more associated questions on this experiment, as this is essentially what it is,therefore, even without going into the validity and sustainability of the venture, I would like the aforementioned concerns aleviated BEFORE the deal goes to the "no turning back" stage. Edited February 9, 2011 by john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainC Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have a fairly straight-forward question here ......... Having held some senior positions with some sizeable companies I decided to take the plunge and set-up my own company and something is not right here - I have invested a lot of money in making my company work and will do absolutely everything in my power to ensure its success - I have to as I need to provide for my family and if it falters I am in some serious financial doo-doo but also because I care about it and want to see it continue to succeed. The thing that this whole thing smacks of is who is going to actuallly care ?? The CiC is a vehicle as I see it for these guys to buy the club and for it to be run by 'the community' - who we would hope would be St. Mirren supporters so of course they/we will all care but 99.9% of the community will not have any real input on a day-to-day basis. I havent read the various threads on this topic so dont know a helluva a lot about the man but if he is not investing a penny (so it doesnt hurt financially) does Mr. Atkinson care enough that if this all starts to go 'tits up' he will do absolutely everything in his power to ensure our future as unpalatable as some of these things are (as Mr. Gilmour has done for the past however many years) or will he merely think "Oh well that didnt work but it hasnt cost me anything - time to move on" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 While I wholly applaud those who choose to point out animals failings in a constructive manner, I have read past his seemingly vociferous and irritable rhetoric, and I feel he has asked some valid questions as to why Mr Atkinson wishes to involve himself in our club. Of what benefit is this venture to him? Is he indeed interested in the well being of our club or is this to be an ego trip without consequence? There are many more associated questions on this experiment, as this is essentially what it is,therefore, even without going into the validity and sustainability of the venture, I would like the aforementioned concerns aleviated BEFORE the deal goes to the "no turning back" stage. Although I really am finding it hard to get the just of CIC in it's finer detail I understand Clyde are now a CIC club along with Stenhousemuir. There are also a lot of small clubs down south including Ruby clubs run this way. St Mirren will be the largest club if the CIC goes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 While I wholly applaud those who choose to point out animals failings in a constructive manner, I have read past his seemingly vociferous and irritable rhetoric, and I feel he has asked some valid questions as to why Mr Atkinson wishes to involve himself in our club. Of what benefit is this venture to him? Is he indeed interested in the well being of our club or is this to be an ego trip without consequence? There are many more associated questions on this experiment, as this is essentially what it is,therefore, even without going into the validity and sustainability of the venture, I would like the aforementioned concerns aleviated BEFORE the deal goes to the "no turning back" stage. Yup , agree entirely. This experiment is the only player in SG's exit strategy so we appear rather hemmed into this............ What is worrying is the obvious lack of clarity . No line of sight. It's all about quango interfacing, lobbying for community funding , relationship building, ensuring compliance and procedures, cultivating a sphere of influence with the budget holding approver. Easier dealing in European Union legislation on Trade agreements with despotic Asian regimes Maybe we should try and interest the Chinese. Another Ten years and they will be in charge of everything anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 We're all concerned about the future direction of the club. Players, managers, directors, kit suppliers? They all come and go - we stick with it. However, I would be more concerned if we were looking at a situation where a 'sugardaddy' type like Milan Mandaric, Peter Ridsdale, Angelo Massoni, some unknown Arab/Russian/Asian businessman was sniffing around, and SG was faced with a choice he knew deep down to be the wrong one. SG and our BOD are dealing here with a guy who has now been in the club for over 6 months. A lot of talking and negotiating will have gone on, as well as a lot of learning about each other. I've been critical of SG on a few things since he announced the club was up for sale, but let's give him and the rest of the directors the chance to come out and announce their plans for the future when the time is right for them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 While I wholly applaud those who choose to point out animals failings in a constructive manner, I have read past his seemingly vociferous and irritable rhetoric, and I feel he has asked some valid questions as to why Mr Atkinson wishes to involve himself in our club. Of what benefit is this venture to him? Is he indeed interested in the well being of our club or is this to be an ego trip without consequence? There are many more associated questions on this experiment, as this is essentially what it is,therefore, even without going into the validity and sustainability of the venture, I would like the aforementioned concerns aleviated BEFORE the deal goes to the "no turning back" stage. I think the point is that many of us have asked the same or similar questions, and expressed a degree of scepticism, but have managed to do this in a measured and balanced manner. I took issue with his tone in the second post of the thread, and, thereafter, myself and others have embarked on a reasoned discussion on the subject. It is blatantly obvious that this character has an agenda, and his conceited and facile outpourings are tiresome and meddlesome at best. He is devaluing the discussion with his dribblings, and should go away and give us all peace IMHO. Let's face it, there must be some pipes need fitting somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the point is that many of us have asked the same or similar questions, and expressed a degree of scepticism, but have managed to do this in a measured and balanced manner. I took issue with his tone in the second post of the thread, and, thereafter, myself and others have embarked on a reasoned discussion on the subject. It is blatantly obvious that this character has an agenda, and his conceited and facile outpourings are tiresome and meddlesome at best. He is devaluing the discussion with his dribblings, and should go away and give us all peace IMHO. Let's face it, there must be some pipes need fitting somewhere not pipes, surely you mean NASA standard spec grafalloy conduit comms links that only the Hyper qualified super uber professional post graduate in Astronautics type with a diploma on Book keeping could deal with. There can be only one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I think the point is that many of us have asked the same or similar questions, and expressed a degree of scepticism, but have managed to do this in a measured and balanced manner. I took issue with his tone in the second post of the thread, and, thereafter, myself and others have embarked on a reasoned discussion on the subject. It is blatantly obvious that this character has an agenda, and his conceited and facile outpourings are tiresome and meddlesome at best. He is devaluing the discussion with his dribblings, and should go away and give us all peace IMHO. Let's face it, there must be some pipes need fitting somewhere Yup, there's a lot of questions I'd like to hear answers to, but all in the fullness of time. SG came in, and he's been here for the long haul. He's proved he's more than a fly-by-night shyster who saw the club as a vehicle for a profit. He won't sell us up the creek without a paddle. I'm convinced of that. Whatever dealings he has undertaken with Richard Atkinson haven't just been scribbled down on the back of a Woodbine packet in 5 minutes. Until such times as we know the facts I'm concerning myself with more pressing matters, like, - have we signed Robbie Winters yet? Edited February 9, 2011 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I think the point is that many of us have asked the same or similar questions, and expressed a degree of scepticism, but have managed to do this in a measured and balanced manner. I took issue with his tone in the second post of the thread, and, thereafter, myself and others have embarked on a reasoned discussion on the subject. It is blatantly obvious that this character has an agenda, and his conceited and facile outpourings are tiresome and meddlesome at best. He is devaluing the discussion with his dribblings, and should go away and give us all peace IMHO. Let's face it, there must be some pipes need fitting somewhere This. I am sure animals has some good points to make and has some value to add to the debate, but frankly I stopped caring about that when he adopted his "I am significantly better than all of you f**kwits" approach. Animals is not Stuart Dickson by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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