The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

[reborn saint]

You get your information on this subject from where ?

BBC news radio and sometimes TV if you are refering to the problems that are being discussed about obesity. if you are refering to any grant the cic will obtain with regards this problem I was only using it as an example of the many social and health funds which are available to groups which can offer help.

[reborn saint]

BBC news radio and sometimes TV if you are refering to the problems that are being discussed about obesity. if you are refering to any grant the cic will obtain with regards this problem I was only using it as an example of the many social and health funds which are available to groups which can offer help.

Oh and do you watch news programes...It was on this morning after Andrew Marr

[ck1]

Oh and do you watch news programes...It was on this morning after Andrew Marr

I see.... I thought you were a source that I would need to meet, as I have been trying to source funding to fight obesity for a couple of years now!And it ain't as easy as your making out Fact !

[Stuart Dickson]

I'm guessing here Stuart, but if the scenario you painted panned out, and the elected CIC BOD voted to allow an external club, of any sort, to use St Mirren FC facilities at the expense of any St Mirren FC side - it would be a PR nightmare, and shouldn't be allowed. Again, just my opinion - but like the Life Church using the stadium facilities, it should be actively encouraged of course, but simply not at the expense of any possible St Mirren requirement to use that suite. The question has been rightly asked by many - pro CIC and anti-CIC.... Who is the horse and who is the cart in any future relationship. The football club simply must be of primary concern in my view. There's no hostile takeover going on, the CIC and the club need to work for the benefit of all, so like a marriage I suppose, there will no doubt be times where compromise is needed from both sides to make a situation work.

Edit: Have a green dot for raising an issue that raises the bar from the level of debate I thought we were stuck at forever - IE... The CIC is magic, naw it isnae' it's crap and he's a charlatan...naw he isnae' he's brilliant...naw he isnae' he's a shyster.... etc.

Fair enough Poz, so no use of the 3g park. What about the donation of hospitality packages for Old Firm matches so that the football club can auction them off to raise their £500 membership fee? The cost of that will come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would that be a possibility? If not what would you suggest the community members get for their fee? Remember community group committees will most likely be made up of people who have little interest in St Mirren. If we stick to the idea of juvenile football, what would you offer them to attract them into the club, that would give them a value for money return on their £500, and that would make them buy into the whole Community Interest Company scheme?

I've posted previously about how I would perceive having just 10 juvenile football clubs on board could benefit St Mirren FC massively. I've talked about the prospect of volume purchase discounts on kit orders, about sponsorship packages that could incorporate not just St Mirren FC but the 2000 or so kids that play football every week as part of those 10 clubs. I've talked about how those clubs will have SFA qualified coaches who are fully disclosed and how that could be used to create a scouting network, and how it could be used alongside the St Mirren brand to create a large network of football academies. But if you can't offer them an attractive package to entice them to even come along to talk to you how can you get any of this off the ground?

Consider Individual Memberships. At the start of this I suggested that to make membership stick you would have to offer some kind of direct benefit to the member. I suggested that as well as having the members bar, things like free child admission tickets for those who are accompanied by a member. I also suggested that perhaps a benefit could be the use of the club car park on match day for members. If I remember correctly those ideas were fairly warmly received, but yet again the cost of this would come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would the elected members deem that a possibility?

None of this is me having a go at you Poz, it's just me trying to illustrate the one nagging doubt that I have regarding the CIC proposal - that those electing their board members - and the potential candidates - don't have the ability, imagination or vision to see beyond their club being mildly disadvantaged in the short term for much larger longer term returns.

You mention the church. The one constant about the church is that they will need their space every Sunday. I hope you aren't suggesting they should be forced to clear the building early if there is a televised match on so that their facility be taken over by Club Directors and "creepy sausage roll thieves".

Edited May 30, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[reborn saint]

I see.... I thought you were a source that I would need to meet, as I have been trying to source funding to fight obesity for a couple of years now!And it ain't as easy as your making out Fact !

Wow....apoligies to you my friend. I thought you were just someone on here picking holes in what the cic can be. If you are already involved in what is a major cause for concern then i'm 100% convinced that this cic will be an avenue for you to achieve what you are obviously struggling with just now.

[bingboy]

Fair enough Poz, so no use of the 3g park. What about the donation of hospitality packages for Old Firm matches so that the football club can auction them off to raise their £500 membership fee? The cost of that will come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would that be a possibility? If not what would you suggest the community members get for their fee? Remember community group committees will most likely be made up of people who have little interest in St Mirren. If we stick to the idea of juvenile football, what would you offer them to attract them into the club, that would give them a value for money return on their £500, and that would make them buy into the whole Community Interest Company scheme?

I've posted previously about how I would perceive having just 10 juvenile football clubs on board could benefit St Mirren FC massively. I've talked about the prospect of volume purchase discounts on kit orders, about sponsorship packages that could incorporate not just St Mirren FC but the 2000 or so kids that play football every week as part of those 10 clubs. I've talked about how those clubs will have SFA qualified coaches who are fully disclosed and how that could be used to create a scouting network, and how it could be used alongside the St Mirren brand to create a large network of football academies. But if you can't offer them an attractive package to entice them to even come along to talk to you how can you get any of this off the ground?

Consider Individual Memberships. At the start of this I suggested that to make membership stick you would have to offer some kind of direct benefit to the member. I suggested that as well as having the members bar, things like free child admission tickets for those who are accompanied by a member. I also suggested that perhaps a benefit could be the use of the club car park on match day for members. If I remember correctly those ideas were fairly warmly received, but yet again the cost of this would come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would the elected members deem that a possibility?

None of this is me having a go at you Poz, it's just me trying to illustrate the one nagging doubt that I have regarding the CIC proposal - that those electing their board members - and the potential candidates - don't have the ability, imagination or vision to see beyond their club being mildly disadvantaged in the short term for much larger longer term returns.

You mention the church. The one constant about the church is that they will need their space every Sunday. I hope you aren't suggesting they should be forced to clear the building early if there is a televised match on so that their facility be taken over by Club Directors and "creepy sausage roll thieves".

Good post.

I suspect most people on this forum, and I very much incude myself in this, are thinking of the potential benefits to St Mirren from this without worrying too much about the community aspect.

To a certain extent that's only natural given that we are St Mirren fans but this post and a few others you have made highlight the need to have people on the CIC Board who can not only see the community side but be prepared to explain the long term mutual benefits of any proposal for both the football club and community organisation.

When you posed the original question about the 3g pitches my reaction was very much the same as pozbaird's but you've made me think I was just being shortsighted now.

One thing though - I'm pretty sure RA mentioned at the first pubic meeting that the Church wouldn't be in attendance on a Sunday if there was a match with an early kick-off. I'm not sure if that was the Churches choice or not.

Edited May 30, 2011 by bingboy

[10000hours]

I know you have only very recently joined the forum - but try asking yourself - is this scheme all that it appears ?

We have generally kept away from the answering questions put on the discussion threads and tried our best to answer the questions specifically asked in the Q & A thread.

However folk seem to be posting more and more questions in the discussion thread, we thought we would answer this particular one first.

"is this scheme all that it appears ?"

We believe that having had 6 months + worth of meetings and (if memory serves) 4 presentataions with SMiSA, 2 public presentations, 1 presentation to the club AGM, 1 presentation to the a shareholders meeting and a presentation to an invited meeting of the travel club plus a general open door policy on anyone who wants to have a one to one meeting, that this scheme is what it appears to be to the 700+ people who have thus far pledged and who are now sending in their Direct Debit mandates.

We accept that you believe it is not what it appears to be..............assuming that by wording your statement that way that you are assuming a hidden negative. e.g "the scheme appears to be good, but that is not what it really is"?

So we will make the offer we have made elsewhere and several times , but very specifically to yourself and any others how still don't believe the motives are good and our plan sound..........e-mail us at [email protected] and set up a meeting at which we can show you the paperwork, all the business plans in as much detail as you want and ask us all the questions you can and if you are not happy with the answers then from a postion of knowing all the info then feel free to disagree with the plan.

So it is upto you, do you want to sit down with the info, study the detail and come to your own conclusion about the 10000hours team and the proposal based on as much information as possible?

We hope you do and hope to hear from you and of course anyone else whenever you are ready.

10000hours CIC

[reborn saint]

We have generally kept away from the answering questions put on the discussion threads and tried our best to answer the questions specifically asked in the Q & A thread.

However folk seem to be posting more and more questions in the discussion thread, we thought we would answer this particular one first.

"is this scheme all that it appears ?"

We believe that having had 6 months + worth of meetings and (if memory serves) 4 presentataions with SMiSA, 2 public presentations, 1 presentation to the club AGM, 1 presentation to the a shareholders meeting and a presentation to an invited meeting of the travel club plus a general open door policy on anyone who wants to have a one to one meeting, that this scheme is what it appears to be to the 700+ people who have thus far pledged and who are now sending in their Direct Debit mandates.

We accept that you believe it is not what it appears to be..............assuming that by wording your statement that way that you are assuming a hidden negative. e.g "the scheme appears to be good, but that is not what it really is"?

So we will make the offer we have made elsewhere and several times , but very specifically to yourself and any others how still don't believe the motives are good and our plan sound..........e-mail us at [email protected] and set up a meeting at which we can show you the paperwork, all the business plans in as much detail as you want and ask us all the questions you can and if you are not happy with the answers then from a postion of knowing all the info then feel free to disagree with the plan.

So it is upto you, do you want to sit down with the info, study the detail and come to your own conclusion about the 10000hours team and the proposal based on as much information as possible?

We hope you do and hope to hear from you and of course anyone else whenever you are ready.

10000hours CIC

How cooool is that!

[Reynard]

Fair enough Poz, so no use of the 3g park. What about the donation of hospitality packages for Old Firm matches so that the football club can auction them off to raise their £500 membership fee? The cost of that will come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would that be a possibility? If not what would you suggest the community members get for their fee? Remember community group committees will most likely be made up of people who have little interest in St Mirren. If we stick to the idea of juvenile football, what would you offer them to attract them into the club, that would give them a value for money return on their £500, and that would make them buy into the whole Community Interest Company scheme?

I've posted previously about how I would perceive having just 10 juvenile football clubs on board could benefit St Mirren FC massively. I've talked about the prospect of volume purchase discounts on kit orders, about sponsorship packages that could incorporate not just St Mirren FC but the 2000 or so kids that play football every week as part of those 10 clubs. I've talked about how those clubs will have SFA qualified coaches who are fully disclosed and how that could be used to create a scouting network, and how it could be used alongside the St Mirren brand to create a large network of football academies. But if you can't offer them an attractive package to entice them to even come along to talk to you how can you get any of this off the ground?

Consider Individual Memberships. At the start of this I suggested that to make membership stick you would have to offer some kind of direct benefit to the member. I suggested that as well as having the members bar, things like free child admission tickets for those who are accompanied by a member. I also suggested that perhaps a benefit could be the use of the club car park on match day for members. If I remember correctly those ideas were fairly warmly received, but yet again the cost of this would come directly from the St Mirren Ltd budget. Would the elected members deem that a possibility?

None of this is me having a go at you Poz, it's just me trying to illustrate the one nagging doubt that I have regarding the CIC proposal - that those electing their board members - and the potential candidates - don't have the ability, imagination or vision to see beyond their club being mildly disadvantaged in the short term for much larger longer term returns.

You mention the church. The one constant about the church is that they will need their space every Sunday. I hope you aren't suggesting they should be forced to clear the building early if there is a televised match on so that their facility be taken over by Club Directors and "creepy sausage roll thieves".

Good post. There is a lot of things that the CiC can get involved with. And a lot of expertise to draw on as well within our support and from the area in general. I think the whole thing is quite exciting actually and could be brilliant for the local area.

I'm pretty sure than any church service will be over and done with and the building cleared by around midday. If SKY are seriously thinking about televising live matches on a Sunday morning I will be gutted

[pozbaird]

Fair enough Poz, so no use of the 3g park.

I didn't say that Stuart - I only said that if a St Mirren team, pro-youth or whatever, has a time where they use the pitch, then I don't see it being acceptable if they are 'turfed off' (no plastic pitch pun intended!) to accomodate an external club coming in.

The way I see it it is like my golf club in the way they accomodate visiting parties. A company couldn't book a works outing to Crow Wood on a Saturday when the members already play their medal competitons.

Edit: In a previous post I also said that I view the future relationship between the CIC and the club as a marriage, that needs to work for the benefit of both parties. So, there's always room for compromise. If a St Mirren pro-youth team could change the time they use the pitch, or whatever, to accomodate an incoming external club, so that they can both use it - great. All I'm saying is that from my POV it isn't acceptable if a situation arises where a St Mirren FC existing arrangement is scuppered in some way to allow external use - for the 'bigger picture'.

Hey ho, that's just my view - if an elected CIC BOD voted otherwise, that's their call. I happen to think it would fuel the fires of an argument that there's too much emphasis currently being placed on the 'community' side of a possible CIC/Club marriage, and not enough on the football side.

Incidentally, I am actually personally enthusiastic about what the CICs 'community' side is all about and reckon it is a laudable and potentially exciting development. We booked a five a side pitch at FeegieField a fortnight ago at 12 noon on a Sunday. It was absolutely brilliant to turn up and struggle to find a car parking space - the kids were getting coaching on the other pitches, we were there to play our fives, the Life Church meeting was on, and people were there for the Saints Aid game. The place was jumping - brilliant.

Edited May 31, 2011 by pozbaird

[Stuart Dickson]

I didn't say that Stuart - I only said that if a St Mirren team, pro-youth or whatever, has a time where they use the pitch, then I don't see it being acceptable if they are 'turfed off' (no plastic pitch pun intended!) to accomodate an external club coming in.

The way I see it it is like my golf club in the way they accomodate visiting parties. A company couldn't book a works outing to Crow Wood on a Saturday when the members already play their medal competitons.

Edit: In a previous post I also said that I view the future relationship between the CIC and the club as a marriage, that needs to work for the benefit of both parties. So, there's always room for compromise. If a St Mirren pro-youth team could change the time they use the pitch, or whatever, to accomodate an incoming external club, so that they can both use it - great. All I'm saying is that from my POV it isn't acceptable if a situation arises where a St Mirren FC existing arrangement is scuppered in some way to allow external use - for the 'bigger picture'.

Hey ho, that's just my view - if an elected CIC BOD voted otherwise, that's their call. I happen to think it would fuel the fires of an argument that there's too much emphasis currently being placed on the 'community' side of a possible CIC/Club marriage, and not enough on the football side.

Incidentally, I am actually personally enthusiastic about what the CICs 'community' side is all about and reckon it is a laudable and potentially exciting development. We booked a five a side pitch at FeegieField a fortnight ago at 12 noon on a Sunday. It was absolutely brilliant to turn up and struggle to find a car parking space - the kids were getting coaching on the other pitches, we were there to play our fives, the Life Church meeting was on, and people were there for the Saints Aid game. The place was jumping - brilliant.

Poz, sorry to labour this. Your post is entirely reasonable but as far as I am aware the 3g pitch at Ralston is being used to capacity by St Mirren Pro Youth every midweek evening during the football season. At Under 13's level for example they are on the pitch on a Tuesday, Thursday and a Friday and AFAIK each pro youth age group trains three times per week. Now if I'm right that means what your saying is effectively a no to Community Members using the 3g pitch at Ralston. That's fair enough but the question still remains what would you offer Juvenile Football Clubs that would entice committee's full of non St Mirren supporters to part with £500 worth of club funds?

As I've posted before I sit on a committee of a juvenile football club and I used to be a Parents Representative on the Motherwell Athletics Club committee and on the North Lanarkshire Athletics Partnership committee. I've seen senior Scottish Football clubs use community rhetoric before but when push came to shove the general reality was that the senior football clubs just wanted to take and not give anything in return. What has resulted is a deep rooted suspicion of senior Scottish Football clubs. Now IMO for the CIC to work at St Mirren it HAS to get past this by genuinely throwing open the doors and saying this is what we have, tell us what you would like to use and why you want to use it and we'll do our best to accommodate you. That doesn't necessarily mean St Mirren Pro Youth being ejected from their own pitch, but it does mean the St Mirren Ltd board having to be open to giving resources to the community groups that may have a short term impact on the playing budget. After all I presume the reason 10000 hours wants to buy a football club is because the football club has assets that it believes can be utilised by the community members.

Like Reynard and you I'm genuinely excited about what the CIC could be. I'd be excited about it whether it was at St Mirren, Motherwell, Hamilton or at any other club in Scottish Football. I've been watching developments at Clyde where the CIC model has been implemented and I'm attending a conference tomorrow to find out more about the various routes that could be used in football to develop the game as a sports enterprise network. But I also have grave reservations that the model depends totally on the capabilities of the board members that are elected, and it depends greatly on the ability of the electorate to see a picture that is bigger than how much a beer will cost in the members bar and trying to work out ways of getting more money into the playing budget at the expense of the Community Membership.

[pozbaird]

Poz, sorry to labour this. Your post is entirely reasonable but as far as I am aware the 3g pitch at Ralston is being used to capacity by St Mirren Pro Youth every midweek evening during the football season. At Under 13's level for example they are on the pitch on a Tuesday, Thursday and a Friday and AFAIK each pro youth age group trains three times per week. Now if I'm right that means what your saying is effectively a no to Community Members using the 3g pitch at Ralston. That's fair enough but the question still remains what would you offer Juvenile Football Clubs that would entice committee's full of non St Mirren supporters to part with £500 worth of club funds?

Stuart, if that's the situation with the Ralston pitch - I.E. It is already 'running at full capacity' already - purely with St Mirren use, then it would seem to me that if any outside club was looking to use it after the CIC is the majority shareholder, then it would be a job for the CIC board to sit down and talk over - see what can be done. I still find it difficult to forsee a situation where a club coming in would use the facility while a St Mirren team who currently use it were left homeless so to speak. I'm all for the community side of the deal as I said - but I just can't get my head around a team playing at Ralston if it meant a St Mirren team being booted off.

To me, that would be like my golf club saying, sorry, Saturday's medal has been cancelled, we've decided to let an outing from British Gas play their works tournament. Members need to go and play on some other course this weekend.

Anyway.... we can worry about that later.

[ds10]

Article here in the PDE suggesting the takover is still on 'track'.

[pozbaird]

Article here in the PDE suggesting the takover is still on 'track'.

OK, I've read the article, and my take on it is that the journalist has simply made it sound like public cash is buying out SG and Co, and the community groups and corporate groups who join up are going to boost the club's coffers, and put bums on seats - making, in my humble opinion, folk reading that story who don't know the details wonder why public cash can be given to this bloke to buy a football team and then make it more successful. I find it amusing that on here, some of us are saying 'too much emphasis on the community side and not enough on the football side', while this story makes it sound like it's simply all about the football side, with no mention, other than some oblique reference to a 'community hub', about the community projects and schemes that 10000hours has to put into practice to even qualify for the grants in the first place!

Journalists, eh Stu? I don't know...

Edited May 31, 2011 by pozbaird

[ck1]

Poz, sorry to labour this. Your post is entirely reasonable but as far as I am aware the 3g pitch at Ralston is being used to capacity by St Mirren Pro Youth every midweek evening during the football season. At Under 13's level for example they are on the pitch on a Tuesday, Thursday and a Friday and AFAIK each pro youth age group trains three times per week. Now if I'm right that means what your saying is effectively a no to Community Members using the 3g pitch at Ralston. That's fair enough but the question still remains what would you offer Juvenile Football Clubs that would entice committee's full of non St Mirren supporters to part with £500 worth of club funds?

As I've posted before I sit on a committee of a juvenile football club and I used to be a Parents Representative on the Motherwell Athletics Club committee and on the North Lanarkshire Athletics Partnership committee. I've seen senior Scottish Football clubs use community rhetoric before but when push came to shove the general reality was that the senior football clubs just wanted to take and not give anything in return. What has resulted is a deep rooted suspicion of senior Scottish Football clubs. Now IMO for the CIC to work at St Mirren it HAS to get past this by genuinely throwing open the doors and saying this is what we have, tell us what you would like to use and why you want to use it and we'll do our best to accommodate you. That doesn't necessarily mean St Mirren Pro Youth being ejected from their own pitch, but it does mean the St Mirren Ltd board having to be open to giving resources to the community groups that may have a short term impact on the playing budget. After all I presume the reason 10000 hours wants to buy a football club is because the football club has assets that it believes can be utilised by the community members.

Like Reynard and you I'm genuinely excited about what the CIC could be. I'd be excited about it whether it was at St Mirren, Motherwell, Hamilton or at any other club in Scottish Football. I've been watching developments at Clyde where the CIC model has been implemented and I'm attending a conference tomorrow to find out more about the various routes that could be used in football to develop the game as a sports enterprise network. But I also have grave reservations that the model depends totally on the capabilities of the board members that are elected, and it depends greatly on the ability of the electorate to see a picture that is bigger than how much a beer will cost in the members bar and trying to work out ways of getting more money into the playing budget at the expense of the Community Membership.

I can think of a couple of way's the club could help a juvenile football club,without upsetting the apple cart in terms of not getting on the 3G.

1. They could send some of the coaches they have out and help coach some of these clubs

2. They could send a player to represent the club at said clubs functions.

3. Donate to clubs Raffle's which would help them raise some funds.

4. Most large juvenile clubs would have some sort of facility,that needs some up keep i.e the park ,They could send out grounds people to maintain these parks.

These things might tempt some of the juvenile football club's to part with £500 per year knowing they will be getting value for money, and at the same time SMFC & CIC don't have to worry about upsetting the fans if the teams where"turfed off " just a thought.

[St. Sid]

I have a flashback from my Anderson Bus Station days.

Dirty Gingy!

With regards to lawstuds ramblings about community club / youth teams. Any community member agrees a MoU with the CIC prior to paying their £500 per year. The MoU would be binding on both the club and the community member. I really don't see the need for a long sprawling diatribe about a requirement that doesn't even appear to exist as far as I am aware.

Wouldn't it be great though if the CIC eventually took over the management of all of Renfrewshire's youth football resources. I reckon we could do a damn site better job of it than the f'k'n cuntcil.

[TsuMirren]

Dirty Gingy!

Wouldn't it be great though if the CIC eventually took over the management of all of Renfrewshire's youth football resources. I reckon we could do a damn site better job of it than the f'k'n cuntcil.

Or at the very least sponsored a Cup or League, perhaps even ran trial matches at Ralston for out of contract players.

[Big_Mougie]

Stuart have you contacted the club re your suggestions as they are all very good.

I was also thinking last night re the CIC whilst trying to get to sleep and I know there was an earlier mention re the possibilty of 10000hrs helping out other clubs possibly thinking about going down the same route. This is also a good oportunity to build up good realtions with other clubs which can only benifit the club.

All very positive and my DD mandate got posted today

[Stuart Dickson]

With regards to lawstuds ramblings about community club / youth teams. Any community member agrees a MoU with the CIC prior to paying their £500 per year. The MoU would be binding on both the club and the community member. I really don't see the need for a long sprawling diatribe about a requirement that doesn't even appear to exist as far as I am aware.

Sid, tell me do you really think that a juvenile club with a committee full of r*ngers and c*ltic fans is really going to entertain the idea of approaching a project that is looking to buy St Mirren to negotiate a memorandum of understanding that is going to cost them £500 without knowing what is on offer? It won't work like that. I would imagine that the community groups that have signed up so far are in a position where what they want back involves something that fills a space whereas a football club getting involved is far more likely to be told that 10000 hours cannot offer what they are looking for without the consent of the elected board of St Mirren Ltd.

[Stuart Dickson]

I can think of a couple of way's the club could help a juvenile football club,without upsetting the apple cart in terms of not getting on the 3G.

1. They could send some of the coaches they have out and help coach some of these clubs

2. They could send a player to represent the club at said clubs functions.

3. Donate to clubs Raffle's which would help them raise some funds.

4. Most large juvenile clubs would have some sort of facility,that needs some up keep i.e the park ,They could send out grounds people to maintain these parks.

These things might tempt some of the juvenile football club's to part with £500 per year knowing they will be getting value for money, and at the same time SMFC & CIC don't have to worry about upsetting the fans if the teams where"turfed off " just a thought.

CK1 thanks for having a go but I'm not sure they would.

1. It's a good shout, however I would suggest that since the juvenile club has the qualified coaches, and has recruited the kids a better way to put that forward is that it is the juvenile club offering a service to St Mirren - where players who are going through their coaching badges would have an opportunity to put into practice what they have learned in order to gain real experience whilst also having an opportunity to scout the juvenile clubs players. However, even doing it your way who would cover the players travelling expenses and wages for the time that he's putting aside? Wouldn't that spend have to be sanctioned by the St Mirren Ltd board?

2. They could but to put that into context for £500 they could get a more exciting, and probably more relevant celebrity than a St Mirren player. When I was a kid my prizes were presented by Bobby Russell and Ally Dawson. r*ngers players at the time who lived in my local area and who were happy to help out for free. My son has had his awards presented by Lee McCulloch, Jose Quitongo, and this year it'll be Tam Cowan. The one that charged the most did it for a couple of vodkas and a taxi fare. At Motherwell athletics they had local Olympic medallist Yvonne Murray present the awards and the only one I saw getting a fee, which was less than the £500 quoted, was Alan Wells who came up from Loughborough University and as well as presenting the prizes took all the kids out to the track the next day to go through a sprints coaching session with them. However even if it did work the way you propose again who would cover the players travelling expenses and compensate him for giving up his Friday or Saturday night? Again wouldn't the St Mirren Ltd board have to sanction that spend?

3. Yep - That's one benefit I believe would work and that clubs would be happy to be involved with the CIC for. It would have to be at least to the value of the £500 membership fee which will be paid to 10000 hours, but the prizes would be more likely to come out of the St Mirren Ltd budget whether it's footballs, shirts, or the likes of corporate hospitality.

4. Do they? Most of the teams in the LFDA leagues play on local authority run facilities whether they are owned by the council themselves or as part of their Sports Trust. The only team I can think of that doesn't is Mill United who have their own facility in Fairhill in Hamilton. I don't know the details of their maintenance contract but I suspect it's probably with SLC. Maybe it's different across Renfrewshire?!?! Anyway again wouldn't the St Mirren Ltd board need to sanction covering the costs of the travel for their ground staff, and cover the cost of their wages?

Edited May 31, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Sorry - it was a multiple post.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

Stuart have you contacted the club re your suggestions as they are all very good.

I was also thinking last night re the CIC whilst trying to get to sleep and I know there was an earlier mention re the possibilty of 10000hrs helping out other clubs possibly thinking about going down the same route. This is also a good oportunity to build up good realtions with other clubs which can only benifit the club.

All very positive and my DD mandate got posted today

Big Mougie,thanks for the praise. I don't see these as suggestions though - my recent posts have been more about illustrating the concern that I have that where this will fall down is that those who may stand as candidates and those who are going to be voting may not be looking at the wider picture which is undoubtedly the importance of those Community Members.

But to answer your question, yeah Richard Atkinson got in touch with me after I made a rather negative post on this forum where I detailed how I would like to see a CIC work and being disappointed that 10000 hours didn't appear to be going down the same route. We had a brief exchange of e-mails initially and then a long phone conversation and we've exchanged more e-mails since over a number of issues. I have to say my initial negativity was misplaced. I believe now that my problem was I was intent on building a market stall whilst 10000 hours were going down the route of starting a chain of supermarkets. 10000 hours have had most of my suggestions covered, but the problem right now if much of what I would like to see happen is going to have to wait till the St Mirren Ltd board is elected and they can vote on it. Hence the tone of my recent posts.

[div]

I can't see past the fact that the providers of the grants and 'soft loans' could well be getting cold feet as to how they might justify making a seven figure sum of what is essentially tax payers money available to effectively facilitate the purchase of a football club. In a climate of huge cuts to public services, there are likely to be significant PR implications, even if the money is ring-fenced for this type of initiative.

The funds that are being tapped into have been specifically created FOR purchases such as this one and much larger awards have been made to projects benefitting local communities.

Check out Spartans for example, their project case study is here

They got a £900k loan just from one fund alone towards their £4.6m community football academy.

St.Mirren's project is far better value than that at Spartans. Our infrastructure is ALREADY there.

To dress it another way, for an investment of £2m these funders are acquiring an asset lock on a community asset that cost upwards of £10m to build.

And finally, these funds don't just hand out money fo the fun of it. They have been carrying out due diligence for months and months. If they thought they would not get their money back then they simply wouldn't lend it in the first place and surely wouldn't have got this far if that was an obvious outcome ?

[St. Sid]

Sid, tell me do you really think that a juvenile club with a committee full of r*ngers and c*ltic fans is really going to entertain the idea of approaching a project that is looking to buy St Mirren to negotiate a memorandum of understanding that is going to cost them £500 without knowing what is on offer? It won't work like that. I would imagine that the community groups that have signed up so far are in a position where what they want back involves something that fills a space whereas a football club getting involved is far more likely to be told that 10000 hours cannot offer what they are looking for without the consent of the elected board of St Mirren Ltd.

We have to start somewhere Stu. And as you pointed out on a previous post we need to be thinking bigger than the market stall.

You need to break the CIC process of engagement down.

First of all we have an underutilised asset in the stadium. The community recognises an opportunity to use that facility. There's the win-win.

We have a training centre fully utilised. No opportunity there.

However, we have a lot of unused space around the stadium. If there is a desire from local football for this land to be utilised for the benefit of the juvenile footballing community then we will be able to attract additional funding to develop this land and build a community facility.

Like I said, I think the CIC / St Mirren taking over the management of footballing facilities of Renfrewshire could be a very logical step in development of football in the area. I am I worried about getting £500 from the OF supporting committee of juvenile football clubs....nope, not in the slightest. Perhaps the P&D League or whatever it is these days would be a good shout for the CIC. They get to use the facility for their prize givings / committee meetings / fund raisers, etc and mibbae extend that to their clubs getting access to the facility for going rate. Could be wrong, but I think St Mirren chasing each individual juvenile club for their £500 a year would not be a good use of our resources.

[Drew]

The funds that are being tapped into have been specifically created FOR purchases such as this one and much larger awards have been made to projects benefitting local communities.

Check out Spartans for example, their project case study is here

They got a £900k loan just from one fund alone towards their £4.6m community football academy.

St.Mirren's project is far better value than that at Spartans. Our infrastructure is ALREADY there.

To dress it another way, for an investment of £2m these funders are acquiring an asset lock on a community asset that cost upwards of £10m to build.

And finally, these funds don't just hand out money fo the fun of it. They have been carrying out due diligence for months and months. If they thought they would not get their money back then they simply wouldn't lend it in the first place and surely wouldn't have got this far if that was an obvious outcome ?

I appreciate the response Div.

You clearly know a great deal more about the background and mechanics of this situation than I do, so I'm happy to defer.

I suppose the main thrust of my point was that there has been a great deal of discussion as to how many people will follow up their pledges with DD mandates, and how many corporate and community organisations will sign up, while the grants and loans haven't been confirmed as yet. I just seemed to me that these has been an element of having taken for granted the fact that the funding to buy out the consortium would be in place. I'm a bit sceptical by nature, so this has always been at the forefont of my mind when thinking about the vialbility of the 10000Hours plan.

All that said, I very much hope that there are no snags with the funding, as a great deal of time and effort has gone into getting this initiative off the ground, and it would be a damn shame if didn't come to pass as a result of political considerations taking place at a level way beyond the local community - which, after all, lies at the heart of the plans.