The Referendum Thread

[ALBIONSAINT]

Just back from Glasgow and can tell you I have never seen so many people mobilising for a political event in my lifetime, the debate has really sparked life back into what was at best a moribund subject in Scotland. Also glad to report that the Yes campaign are winning the war on the streets, totally out numbered the bitter together folk today.

[cambiebud]

The so called Labour Party, which I have always voted for are a disgrace. To see Douglas Alexander and his ilk, agree with every word Ruth Davidson said, was stomach churning! I am voting YES now. I will never vote Labour ever again as I cannot stand the sight of them on the same side as Farage, Cameron et al. I am proud to see people so galvanised for a cause. Roll on Thursday

[beyond our ken]

I take it that everyone on here who is criticising the BBC coverage of the campaign, knows that Alex Salmond has been courting Rupert Murdoch and has been in a number of meetings with him trying to get the Sun to back the Yes Campaign?

He better get his finger out then there are only four sun issues to go until the vote.

Or.....maybe he is discussing which media service will be replacing the BBC post independance ;)

so what is wrong with that-murdoch is a business man and will go after the money. If Salmond doesnt hook him then Cameron will

and the BBC supposed to be impartial

[valleybud]

I take it that everyone on here who is criticising the BBC coverage of the campaign, knows that Alex Salmond has been courting Rupert Murdoch and has been in a number of meetings with him trying to get the Sun to back the Yes Campaign?

I've been perfectly happy with the BBC coverage. They showed Alex Salmond's response to Nick Robinson on their 6pm and 10pm programmes and gave it quite fair coverage given that the real life response was quite a long and rambling rant. The SNP have also had a fair amount of press coverage on the BBC - possibly more than the No Campaign has had - and it's hardly the BBC's fault that the people the Yes Campaign keep putting forward have turned into dribbling lunatics. Elaine C Smith on This Week being one of the latest.

Stuart , even Welsh friends I have commented today on how bias the BBC have been , in particular how Nicholas Witchell gave a twisted view on how the Queen felt on this issue, even though Buckingham Palace had issued a statement, part of which states :

"The sovereign's constitutional impartiality is an established principle of our democracy and one which the Queen has demonstrated throughout her reign.

"As such the monarch is above politics and those in political office have a duty to ensure that this remains the case.

"Any suggestion that the Queen would wish to influence the outcome of the current referendum campaign is categorically wrong.

"Her Majesty is firmly of the view that this is a matter for the people of Scotland."

The BBC should report facts not conjecture.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I live in Portsmouth and the people I've spoken to have a variety of views as you would expect.

Some would be quite happy as they see the inevitable shift of shipbuilding from the Clyde as an opportunity to stop the closure of that part of the industry here. In fact it may even have a positive effect on employment in the area.

There are some who are ardent supporters of the union and are keen for Scotland to remain.

There are some who are not so nostalgic but see the wider implications and are (I believe correctly) concerned about the future of this island.

There are some who simply don't care.

The general feeling though is that if you (I say "you" because I don't have a vote) vote Yes then the negotiation team should give no quarter and hold no sentiment and that the priority should be RUK (whether that happens obviously remains to be seen).

It's interesting to watch this debate from down here and see how the same figures used to prove that Scotland supports England are the same ones used to show that England supports Scotland. These are the divisive tactics that actually worry me whether used by the SNP, UKIP or any of the equally odious "parties".

To be able to whittle down 300 years of mutual support and cooperation to a few quid would be almost impossible and does a disservice to the countless people that have contributed to OUR success.

Sorry for the long post.

I liked your post pompeysaint however I do disagree with the part that equates a Yes vote with the loss of shipbuilding jobs. There isn't any evidence to prove this, even if jobs moved to portsmouth, scotland would still require ships.

[PompeySaint]

I liked your post pompeysaint however I do disagree with the part that equates a Yes vote with the loss of shipbuilding jobs. There isn't any evidence to prove this, even if jobs moved to portsmouth, scotland would still require ships.

You are absolutely correct and I have no evidence to back up that statement.

From what I understand of the SDF policy (obviously subject to change) is that there will be a Navy (including reserves) of around 2600.

The white paper details a number of ships which will be negotiated by iScotland and this would include 2 Type 23 frigates and a number of smaller vessels. Assuming that this happens by the time the ships have crewed up and a percentage of people have been allocated to the various uniformed support jobs there wouldn't be the manpower left to man much more.

Now that obviously doesn't mean that there won't be more built but I would suggest that the requirement would be greatly diminished. Building ships in small numbers (essentially bespoke) is not a cheap business when you consider that a single Type 45 cost approximately 1 Billion to build on the Clyde. With an overall defence budget (again obviously subject to change) of 2.5 Billion the only cost effective way to buy ships would be an off the peg solution from Korea or similar.

There would however be a possibility of continuing refit work on the Clyde.

There's some good stuff in this link.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scottish-first-ministers-shipbuilding-claims-disproven-shipbuilders/

It's obviously just an opinion before anyone jumps down my throat about scaremongering etc.

[bluto]

Stuart , even Welsh friends I have commented today on how bias the BBC have been , in particular how Nicholas Witchell gave a twisted view on how the Queen felt on this issue, even though Buckingham Palace had issued a statement, part of which states :

"The sovereign's constitutional impartiality is an established principle of our democracy and one which the Queen has demonstrated throughout her reign.

"As such the monarch is above politics and those in political office have a duty to ensure that this remains the case.

"Any suggestion that the Queen would wish to influence the outcome of the current referendum campaign is categorically wrong.

"Her Majesty is firmly of the view that this is a matter for the people of Scotland."

The BBC should report facts not conjecture.

If this stupid attempt at Pretendypence wasn't so disastrously set on keeping the Monarchy this should actually be what it should be in Scotland - a bloody irrelevance.

WGAF?

[Phil McCracken]

Just back from Glasgow and can tell you I have never seen so many people mobilising for a political event in my lifetime, the debate has really sparked life back into what was at best a moribund subject in Scotland. Also glad to report that the Yes campaign are winning the war on the streets, totally out numbered the bitter together folk today.

The fact that the Natsi bullies were out on the streets today in numbers attempting to intimidate people will only strengthen decent, ordinary folk's resolve to vote no.

[Phil McCracken]

The CEO of Standard Life e-mailed me today.

He confirmed that the plans in place were simply a back up plan as they can not be 100% sure of the impact of independence and how that may affect their operations and moving any parts of their business would only be if they need to do so. More importantly he told me that they had a long standing relationship with Scotland and wants this to continue.

Not quite how the media reported it.

Thanks for confirming that Standard Life are worried about the effect of independence.

Confirms why I'll be voting no.

95% of Standard Life business comes from England because a single market that a yes vote will destroy.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The fact that the Natsi bullies were out on the streets today in numbers attempting to intimidate people will only strengthen decent, ordinary folk's resolve to vote no.

So the fact that no better together thanks folk were bussed into Paisley today means...

[Guest TPAFKATS]

So here's the bbc depiction of yes campaign in Glasgow today

[Guest TPAFKATS]

...and here's the reality in Glasgow today.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

...and here's CARDIFF

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Ever get the feeling your being cheated?

[Tam M]

Thanks for confirming that Standard Life are worried about the effect of independence.

Confirms why I'll be voting no.

95% of Standard Life business comes from England because a single market that a yes vote will destroy.

It doesn't matter where the business comes from. The operations are run in Scotland and there is no reason why in an independent country this would change. Why do most large companies have parts of their business in India and Mumbai? You're operation base does not need to be based in the same country you are trading in.

I work for a massive UK company in the Financial Industry. I deal with things dealt with in Scotland and England, but I also deal with things in Isle of Man, which are dealt with differently, and in an independent Scotland, any differences in taxation etc, would just be dealt with in a similar way.

[shull]

You never fail me lads

Thanks for the help

Night night, god bless & sweet dreams

[oaksoft]

So the fact that no better together thanks folk were bussed into Paisley today means...

Absolute 100% shame on you for responding to the post of a poster who used the phrase "Natsi".

Poor form Tony.

[faraway saint]

A bit quiet in this thread.

[RickMcD]

A bit quiet in this thread.

They only sing when they're winning.

[shull]

A bit quiet in this thread.

Good

[bluto]

The fact that the Natsi bullies were out on the streets today in numbers attempting to intimidate people will only strengthen decent, ordinary folk's resolve to vote no.

The fact that the Natsi bullies were out on the streets today in numbers attempting to intimidate people will only strengthen decent, ordinary folk's resolve to vote no.

Aye.

Earlier, I had a little concern about a Yes-vote winning simply cos of the Scots tendency towards being "thrawn".

Seeing so many dildos in their wee cars with daft, fluttering flags around Oban yesterday made me think 'that lot' would make me vote in the opposite direction, whatever the question.

[bluto]

It doesn't matter where the business comes from. The operations are run in Scotland and there is no reason why in an independent country this would change. Why do most large companies have parts of their business in India and Mumbai?

Cheap labour. The very reason all the Mill jobs were exported overseas.

Along with driving down Corporation Tax that would be equally as sound an idea for voting Yes.

[RickMcD]

The fact that the Natsi bullies were out on the streets today in numbers attempting to intimidate people will only strengthen decent, ordinary folk's resolve to vote no.

My wife was chatting to her best friend on the phone last night. She was in Glasgow yesterday with her husband and two daughters. They were approached by a couple of Yes people and at first they thought they were being asked to take part in a kind of opinion poll but things changed when they said they were unsure. Effectively they were verbally abused and intimidated. Ewan the girl's husband has always hated England and all things English and had intended to vote yes. He's now voting no and told me on the phone last night that although he doesn't like the English, he has never been threatened by them anywhere let alone in his home town. He said yesterday that there were groups of Yes men going round almost like vigilantes. Now I've no idea if that is happening in any scale but I've known that fella a long time and it would take a fair bit to make him change his voting intentions.

[smcc]

UK government dirty tricks department - yet another instance of the underhand tactics employed by Westminster.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/an-explosive-breach-of-the-rules-salmond-blasts-treasury-as-its-bbc-email-is-exposed.25315637

"A major row broke out after the BBC reported RBS plans to relocate the office to London, if there is a Yes vote, on Wednesday night. The bank's announcement was made the next morning.

It prompted First Minister Alex Salmond to write to Sir Jeremy Heywood, the head of the UK civil service, demanding an inquiry into the "clear breach of city rules".

In response, Heywood said the Treasury had just been confirming its understanding of RBS's plans after questions from the media.

But the Sunday Herald understands the Treasury sent an email to the BBC at 10.16pm on Wednesday, while the RBS board was still meeting to decide whether to tell its shareholders of its plan the next day.

The Sunday Herald understands the Treasury email said: "As you would expect, RBS have also been in touch with us and have similar plans to base themselves in London."

Salmond last night called the email ''an extraordinary and politically explosive revelation'' and demanded its immediate publication in full.

''It appears that the Treasury were briefing RBS market-sensitive information 45 minutes before the bank's board decided to announce its decision,'' he said.

''It is clear they did so in clear breach of the Treasury rule book. The Treasury fingerprints are all over this. They orchestrated it in the same way that the Prime Minister was caught red-handed orchestrating the scare surrounding comments by supermarkets.

''The Westminster establishment are now on the back foot. Not only are they fearmongering but they are not doing so competently or within the rules."

Yesterday, it emerged that Edinburgh financier and RBS shareholder Peter de Vink has written to Police Scotland, the City of London Police, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Lord Advocate of Scotland asking for a probe into the release of the information relating to RBS's relocation.

In his complaint he raised concerns of "criminal and inappropriate activities" with impacts on "shareholders, customers and the wider public in Scotland". He told the Sunday Herald: "I feel that the Westminster government has behaved almost like a banana republic dictatorship.

"I am incensed … Scotland could be a great success story as an independent nation."

[Bud Bundy]

My wife was chatting to her best friend on the phone last night. She was in Glasgow yesterday with her husband and two daughters. They were approached by a couple of Yes people and at first they thought they were being asked to take part in a kind of opinion poll but things changed when they said they were unsure. Effectively they were verbally abused and intimidated. Ewan the girl's husband has always hated England and all things English and had intended to vote yes. He's now voting no and told me on the phone last night that although he doesn't like the English, he has never been threatened by them anywhere let alone in his home town. He said yesterday that there were groups of Yes men going round almost like vigilantes. Now I've no idea if that is happening in any scale but I've known that fella a long time and it would take a fair bit to make him change his voting intentions.

I smell shite yet again from The Bangor NawBag ?