E=Mc2 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 I'm not suggesting what media you should watch. As a Yes voter, I was dissapointed with a few media outlets, and all I stated was that if someone felt the same then don't give them the viewing/reading figures. The same goes if someone feels that some businesses were inappropiately scaremongering, you can take your business elsewhere. If you feel that the media was fine and the businesses acted in a proper manner during the debates, then that's fine. I'm not blaming any particular group of people. Out of the 100% of people that voted, 55% wanted to remain in the Union. The majority spoke and that decision I accept. However, as someone who favours leaving the Union, it gives me hope that it can be achieved in 10, 20 years time as the statistic show that the younger generation were seen to be voting yes, and the 65+ were seen to be voting no (which I can understand as many would have ties to the Union from years ago - the younger generation don't have that kind of feeling) Dear Tam M, can I just throw a few figures in regarding the 65+ voters influence on the outcome of the vote. I have been unable to find figures for the total number of 65+ who voted. I do have the figures for the percentage of the total of registered voters who are 65+ And that is 16.8%. If we were to assume 16.8% of the total votes cast were from 65+ then there were 608,146 votes cast by the 65+. How the 65+ votes totalled with the 73% No and 27% yes as suggested by the Ashcroft poll may have been as follows, Yes 164,199 No 443,946 If the 65+ vote was not included then the result would have been, Yes 1,453,790 No 1,557,980 Still a No win by 104,190 votes. And, may I add, that even if the 65+ vote were excluded my vote still counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Apparently new legislation is being drafted by the SNP as we speak, for over 65s to recieve a free holiday to a purpose built spa resort in Switzerland , however it will be means tested, and it will be piloted first in all areas except, Glasgow, west Dunbartonshire, Dundee , inverclyde and North Lanarkshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Apparently new legislation is being drafted by the SNP as we speak, for over 65s to recieve a free holiday to a purpose built spa resort in Switzerland , however it will be means tested, and it will be piloted first in all areas except, Glasgow, west Dunbartonshire, Dundee , inverclyde and North Lanarkshire. Quite right to, my mum & dad will be over the moon when they return from their 3rd holiday in Spain this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Dear Tam M, can I just throw a few figures in regarding the 65+ voters influence on the outcome of the vote. I have been unable to find figures for the total number of 65+ who voted. I do have the figures for the percentage of the total of registered voters who are 65+ And that is 16.8%. If we were to assume 16.8% of the total votes cast were from 65+ then there were 608,146 votes cast by the 65+. How the 65+ votes totalled with the 73% No and 27% yes as suggested by the Ashcroft poll may have been as follows, Yes 164,199 No 443,946 If the 65+ vote was not included then the result would have been, Yes 1,453,790 No 1,557,980 Still a No win by 104,190 votes. And, may I add, that even if the 65+ vote were excluded my vote still counted. Lies, damned lies and statistics right enough....... You've forgotten to factor in the teenagers who'll replace the 65+ voters. Don't know the number (and can't be arsed trying to find it) but I suspect it would be enough to make the difference and swing things to Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Here is the percentage breakdowns of the age groups that voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) Lies, damned lies and statistics right enough....... You've forgotten to factor in the teenagers who'll replace the 65+ voters. Don't know the number (and can't be arsed trying to find it) but I suspect it would be enough to make the difference and swing things to Yes. Even more lies, damned lies and statistics right enough... You've forgotten to factor in that the teenagers who voted this time will be more mature and grown up in by the time the next referendum comes around and will be more likely to vote no. Of course, for there to ever be a referendum, the SNP needs to win a majority of MPs again at Holyrood. That will be a tough ask. The Unionist parties now have the selling point of voting against the SNP to avoid another referendum and the advantage that no voters are more likely to vote in 'normal' elections than yes voters. As an example, Perth is an SNP stronghold with SNP MP, MSPs & a council. Yet Perth voted heavily no. Folk will be much less likely to vote SNP in future knowing the consequences and another referendum. Edited September 21, 2014 by Phil McCracken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 You're bang on, because the No campaign promises won't rust, will they, and everyone will be more likely to vote No. How's that timetable coming along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyHolly9 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 How many people that actually voted no did so on the "vow". I personally think this is being overhyped and think it was in the Yes side's game plan in the event of a No vote. I heard them on the BBC show ~6am on the result day saying that they only lost due to the extra powers coming to Scotland. I really don't buy it, the "Vow" was a bit of panic reaction very late in the day when some of the polls got down to 50/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyHolly9 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Collectively? As the 45 "twibbon" campaign shows... there is no will for unity... just a misplaced sense of injustice and an unwillingness to accept a democratic decision. Ditch the 45 and 55... When I see 100% I will believe "collectively" is possible. Right now though... 45 is a divisive campaign! Very much so - what do they want, keep having votes every 30 years in order to get the result THEY want and then, when the get it put the issue to bed forever? Mind, if the next vote is in 30 years time the oil will be drying up so not sure what will pay for the milk and honey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 How many people that actually voted no did so on the "vow". I personally think this is being overhyped and think it was in the Yes side's game plan in the event of a No vote. I heard them on the BBC show ~6am on the result day saying that they only lost due to the extra powers coming to Scotland. I really don't buy it, the "Vow" was a bit of panic reaction very late in the day when some of the polls got down to 50/50. Good point, it seems to be that the YES support see this as the be all and end all. It certainly wasn't in my thoughts when I placed my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yes, we know that, as all you ever think about is Burt Reynolds in his Magnum days. I had a Magnum other day and couldn't finish it they caramel ones are too sickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Collectively? As the 45 "twibbon" campaign shows... there is no will for unity... just a misplaced sense of injustice and an unwillingness to accept a democratic decision. Ditch the 45 and 55... When I see 100% I will believe "collectively" is possible. Right now though... 45 is a divisive campaign! Yeah I know that No voters would love it if Yes simply went away and "accepted" being financially controlled for ever but I'm afraid that isn't going to happen - the result was too close and the losing side feel they were cheated and lied out of a legitimate win. It really should be no surprise that the 45 are angry after the tactics used against us combined with the smug twattery afterwards as displayed on this thread and elsewhere. You need to accept that people will take time to vent. You can't spend 2 years emotionally involved in something and then forget it overnight. As I said before, one side REALLY needed to win this by 60% or more. In fairness the only thing worse than a reasonably narrow win for No would have been an arse-clenchingly tight win for Yes but we are where we are. There will be a period where the 45% will vent and then when that subsides you'll see a new campaign starting up. 8000 new SNP members and 2000 new Green members should be an indication of that. Doesn't sound like anyone is giving up anytime soon. Enjoy your win folks but don't expect silence from the other side. This will be a repeating pattern until we win independence or we drop below 40%-ish in terms of the vote. No point closing this thread, we're guaranteed to be back here and don't expect it to be 25 years either. I suspect perhaps 10 years is more realistic depending on how much further Westminster can f**k up our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Lies, damned lies and statistics right enough....... You've forgotten to factor in the teenagers who'll replace the 65+ voters. Don't know the number (and can't be arsed trying to find it) but I suspect it would be enough to make the difference and swing things to Yes. I'm not predicting with regard to a future vote, only the results of the vote just past. Of course folks opinions change over time and if the politicians have their way today's 16 -17 year olds will never be able to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Good point, it seems to be that the YES support see this as the be all and end all. It certainly wasn't in my thoughts when I placed my vote. The significance of the 'vow' is that is was made during the last weekend campaign as the union was shitting itself. There wouldn't have been a need for it otherwise.I certainly don't think that it made all no voters choose that option. Some like Dickson and the loyalists would always have voted no. A significant amount of votets were swayed as they were sold a promise of devo max, which was never actually devo max. 12 hours after the polls closed they quickly realised that it wasn't a promise either. The difference between a yes instead of no victory, was only just over 5%, not a lot who needed to be swayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Very much so - what do they want, keep having votes every 30 years in order to get the result THEY want and then, when the get it put the issue to bed forever? Mind, if the next vote is in 30 years time the oil will be drying up so not sure what will pay for the milk and honey? The cows and bees will supply the milk and honey for free. We only need to buy the cows and bees. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Amen fellow 100% er! We should be united in our drive for home rule for Scotland Wales and NI and increased devolution in England's regions... and the abolition of the unconstitutional House of Lords. No reason why those who dream of Independence can't continue to work towards that dream... but using tge aforementioned as a stepping stone! How's that House of Lords abolition coming along though?Labour claim to want this but haven't done it in 90 years. Westmonster is just different shades of the same shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 One of the most important ' stats' is that the percentage of people who want independence has gone up from 25% to 45% in less than five years! Other important stats, no campaign had £2.6 million to spend , the yes £1.8 million. The no campaign had countless billionaires , the yes campaign had two lottery winners and two homegrown tycoons The no campaign had countless heads of state from across the world, yes had Kim Jong -un apparently. The no campaign had the BBC, SKY, ITV and countless news papers , we had the herald . To be honest I think it's a bit of a miracle that we took it so close, and if you ever feel that all is lost, just remember the story of Robert the Bruce and the wee spider in the cave...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 The quote from Tam's post reads. "If it wasn't for the 65+, Yes would have won." Ok you have your opinion of how to interpret that sentence. I have my interpretation. It's an opinion on what he sees as a reason, but where does he apportion blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 One of the most important ' stats' is that the percentage of people who want independence has gone up from 25% to 45% in less than five years! Other important stats, no campaign had £2.6 million to spend , the yes £1.8 million. The no campaign had countless billionaires , the yes campaign had two lottery winners and two homegrown tycoons The no campaign had countless heads of state from across the world, yes had Kim Jong -un apparently. The no campaign had the BBC, SKY, ITV and countless news papers , we had the herald . To be honest I think it's a bit of a miracle that we took it so close, and if you ever feel that all is lost, just remember the story of Robert the Bruce and the wee spider in the cave...... George monbiot of the guardian shares your view http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/media-shafted-people-scotland-journalists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's an opinion on what he sees as a reason, but where does he apportion blame? True "blame" is too strong a word. I apologise. May I refer the right honourable gentle to the post that uses the same poll results as that which, I believe, gave Tam M his opinion, and that shows that if all the votes cast by the 65+ were removed the result would still have been a No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 How many people that actually voted no did so on the "vow". I personally think this is being overhyped and think it was in the Yes side's game plan in the event of a No vote. I heard them on the BBC show ~6am on the result day saying that they only lost due to the extra powers coming to Scotland. I really don't buy it, the "Vow" was a bit of panic reaction very late in the day when some of the polls got down to 50/50. I think the vow, coupled with previous assertions of more powers probably accounted for anything from 2-5% of a late swing Living in Fife, i can tell you that Brown's intervention on THAT bandwagon took a huge amount of voters over to NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 True "blame" is too strong a word. I apologise. May I refer the right honourable gentle to the post that uses the same poll results as that which, I believe, gave Tam M his opinion, and that shows that if all the votes cast by the 65+ were removed the result would still have been a No. I think tam realises that emotion probably led him to make too much of the over 65s vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 BBC's james Cook reproted that the SNP will use the lib-dem federal model to push for everything but defence and foreign policy to be devolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Divide & Rule Europe will run amok. While our population bickers among themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 I'd want out of the EU too. Most people don't appear to agree with me though so that is something else I'll have to live with. Shit happens. Not necessarily. Vote Conservative at the next General Election and if they get a majority, then you and I can campaign on the same side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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