Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 It's tricky, and I don't really understand why when the Treaty of Lisbon was being drafted (and the defunct constitution before it) they didn't have the foresight to think that nations may split but both want to retain membership; I mean surely it's not that unlikely to happen?!? The main problem is that although there isn't a precedent for it, there are absolutely strict rules when it comes to the numbers of Commissioners, members of the Council, European Council, European Parliament, Court of Auditors, Judges of the CJEU etc being increased i.e. for that to happen it requires a treaty amendment, and for that to happen there needs to be unanimity, without that unanimity, any change to the treaties would breach international law. In other words, tricky as it would be to revoke EU citizenship from millions of people, there would be no other alternative IF (and I genuinely think it's a very remote possibility) any existing State refused to sign a treaty amendment. Revocation in that incredibly unlikely scenario would likely follow the same procedure as a voluntary State withdrawal from the EU, for which there has been a set of procedures in place since 2009. This would include basically a phased withdrawal agreement over around a 2-3 year period. That withdrawal wouldn't necessarily lead to a loss of all EU rights for Scottish nationals though as there are other linked bodies (such as the EEA, EFTA etc) that Scotland could remain within. So...it would take years and might result in little change. If it happened at all?Seems a lot of scaremongering for not a lot then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 No I didn't try to play the man or smear him. I simply pointed out that two more eminent oil industry experts - more CURRENT oil industry experts - have come out strongly AGAINST Independence. If I wanted to smear your Professor I would have highlighted the fact that he was a director of a Trust that was liquidated in 2011 having lost it's investors a huge pile of money and I would have pointed out that he was baw deep in the shambolic escalating costs of the building of the Scottish Parliament, and he's also been a strong advocate of the Edinburgh Tram system from the start. Projects where he got his sums wrong. However I didn't do that cause what would be the point. The man has an opinion and he's got a right to put forward his logic and we should listen to it and chose to give the man credence, or not as the case may be. After all we all make mistakes and occasionally back the wrong horse. Natsi's will grasp at anyone who gives them a glimmer of hope - only two weeks ago it was Professor Dunleavy who work was picked apart bit by bit by a friend and colleague of his who simply pointed out that he would be doing well to set up a new country for £200m when New Zealand spent £600m on a far less complex computer system than Scotland would need, to handle taxation alone. It transpired, of course, that Dunleavy agreed with his friends estimation of the costs but that he didn't believe that it should be termed as a "start up cost" and argued that where they disagreed was on terminology. That's nice, except a cost is a cost and someone still has to pick up the bill no matter what it's called The first paragraph is purely opinion and spin, the second is interesting in a "that's nice" Mrs Brown way and the third paragraph is more spin highlighting once again that dicko cannot do numbers.Or, to summarise... Stuart Dickson is a barefaced liar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Bundy Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 This was your question bud - "Tell me this,Who would you class as the undeserving Poor or the deserving Poor - out of the official figures of 820,000 people living in Poverty in a small country like our own ?" to which i answered i dont believe anyone deserves to be in poverty, as for the above bit in bold ? havent a clue what your asking here. my job IS all about helping people - people who are unable to work due to sickness or disability - these people are in poverty because they are not paid much in benefits, i dont set the benefit rates, but if i'm not there to help them make a claim then they wont have the guidance i give which helps make sure their claim is as complete as it can be,thereby being processed and in payment quicker, do you want me to quit my job and let somebody else do it ? yes i do let all my property to benefit claimants and i would not let dicko anywhere near my erchie BC, As I have stated previously, the Benefit system in this corrupt Union has been systematically dismantled for the last 3 decades for political gain by the Westminster Establishment , This has resultted in 820,000 people in a small country classed as living in Poverty. Now as for your job working in a call centre, I presume in the Lonend area of Paisley ? How many of you so called cival servants/call centre workers have lost jobs due to the the various cuts implemented by the corrupt union ? I have been involved with Benefit Claimants for the last 30 years in paid employment,and also on a voluntary Basis dealing face to face with people forced to claim Benefits for various reason's. Do you honestly believe that you have security of employment in DWP, Job centre plus ? It is my Belief that our country would be better if it was free from the shackles of London Rule, And that your wee job helping the sick and disabled would be more secure helping yuur client base out of Poverty and into prosperity by voting YES for the demise of Austerity, ATOS, and the Bankers that caused this sorry state that we find our self's in this the 21st century ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 BC, As I have stated previously, the Benefit system in this corrupt Union has been systematically dismantled for the last 3 decades for political gain by the Westminster Establishment , This has resultted in 820,000 people in a small country classed as living in Poverty. Now as for your job working in a call centre, I presume in the Lonend area of Paisley ? How many of you so called cival servants/call centre workers have lost jobs due to the the various cuts implemented by the corrupt union ? I have been involved with Benefit Claimants for the last 30 years in paid employment,and also on a voluntary Basis dealing face to face with people forced to claim Benefits for various reason's. Do you honestly believe that you have security of employment in DWP, Job centre plus ? It is my Belief that our country would be better if it was free from the shackles of London Rule, And that your wee job helping the sick and disabled would be more secure helping yuur client base out of Poverty and into prosperity by voting YES for the demise of Austerity, ATOS, and the Bankers that caused this sorry state that we find our self's in this the 21st century ! plenty of jobs lost bud and plenty more to go, i never trust politicians, i will be voting no because it's what i believe is the right choice. ATOS are already on the way out and will finish next year, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I may be picking you up wrongly, bc, but wouldn't DWP offices in Scotland pick up the Scottish "clients" which the EWNI offices currently handle? i work in the contact centre directorate and anyone calling from anywhere in the uk can be connected to any of the contact centres in the uk, dont get me wrong it would be great for our customers if we all kept our jobs in an independent scotland because there would be no call waiting time and claims would be processed in record times, Scotland has around 20% of the contact centre employees and only has around 12% of the population. In other parts of DWP there are benefit processing offices in glasgow, inverness, and dundee who process work for the rest of the uk as well as scotland , bathgate and greenock process the scottish work, disability living allowance is about the only thing processed south of the border and only some of it, also motherwell has one of the main state pension offices for the whole of the uk. and inverness do most of the debt collecting for the uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 So...it would take years and might result in little change. If it happened at all? Seems a lot of scaremongering for not a lot then? Potentially yes. There are a few different outcomes that might result in some complex reshuffling of European organisations, membership, rights and responsibilities, so could be some inconvenience, but I don't think there's a doomsday scenario as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) I've just been attacked on Facebook................................ If you don't learn from the past, you are destined to repeat the mistakes!.....................................total bollox. Yea, Robert you a Tory? ..................................... How conscientious, narcissistic and libertarian of you........................How very Harry Potter of you. I love the confidence of the future from the "Yes" voters when at best it's all very much a gamble. Edited July 9, 2014 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_seas_saint Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Just watched a story here in New Zealand on the News the other night and the started of by saying that in a few months Scotland votes on a referendum regarding it's Independence. They then said have a look at this and proceeded to show the outfit (if we can call it that) that the Scottish athletes will be sporting at the opening ceremony of the games. And then finally commented by saying "after wearing that the rest of the UK will probably say good riddance". For a wee country that has given so much to the rest of the world and was once respected especially down here in the antipodes we have become an even bigger joke than ever thanks to this awful mess. I think once WE give Englandshire total control they will once again ban the wearing of the tartan and after this debacle even I would commend that ruling.......what a disgrace. ........Heid held in shame Just hope The Scotland team can still wear the blue and Saints the Black & White, We have to have something to remind us of who we were.... Edited July 9, 2014 by south_seas_saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 I love the confidence of the future from the "Yes" voters when at best it's all very much a gamble. Confidence in ourselves and our future as a nation? Yes. Is it a gamble? Yes, undoubtedly. But it's better than the certainty of more Tory policies (red or blue) attacking the vulnerable in our society. Not in my name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've just been attacked on Facebook................................ If you don't learn from the past, you are destined to repeat the mistakes!.....................................total bollox. Yea, Robert you a Tory? ..................................... How conscientious, narcissistic and libertarian of you........................How very Harry Potter of you. I love the confidence of the future from the "Yes" voters when at best it's all very much a gamble. You have to question your judgment in accepting such people as your "friends". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 For a wee country that has given so much to the rest of the world and was once respected especially down here in the antipodes we have become an even bigger joke than ever thanks to this awful mess. The Scotland Team/Organisers should have looked at it and said to the designer to go away and do it again. I'd say it's a even a million times worse than our strips for this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've just been attacked on Facebook................................ If you don't learn from the past, you are destined to repeat the mistakes!.....................................total bollox. Yea, Robert you a Tory? ..................................... How conscientious, narcissistic and libertarian of you........................How very Harry Potter of you. I love the confidence of the future from the "Yes" voters when at best it's all very much a gamble. "attack"?Surely you jest, robert? I've seen you subjected to, and dish out, proper "abuse" on this site - completely unconnected to indy referendum though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 "attack"? Surely you jest, robert? I've seen you subjected to, and dish out, proper "abuse" on this site - completely unconnected to indy referendum though... I use the word loosely.........................thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 This whole thread is meaningless in the context of the debate. I meant the debate we are having here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Interesting piece in WOS comparing Scotland/rUK to Canada/USA. The parallels are compelling (imo). http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-different-parallel/ Edited July 9, 2014 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Interesting piece in the Daily Telegraph. The parallels with many dictatorships are compelling (imo) http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/senior-nationalists-have-a-habit-of-warning-off-opponents-in-a-threatening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Another article from another neutral http://www.globalresearch.ca/scotlands-independence-referendum-prime-minister-david-camerons-propaganda-campaign-to-boost-the-no-vote/5390378 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Interesting piece in the Daily Telegraph. The parallels with many dictatorships are compelling (imo) http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/senior-nationalists-have-a-habit-of-warning-off-opponents-in-a-threatening It's actually quite insulting to the people of Scotland, imo. How many times, a Yes vote is not a vote for the SNP. It's not hard to get your head around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) I would say that it would be a good idea to talk to a few current or former employees of Barr about Tony Rush, and ascertain for yourselves whether his claims about employees being intimidated are a wee bit pot & kettle. It would also be good to know the dates of his dealings with ministers, I have been told he left BE in 2007, before the SNP were in power, so maybe the intimidating politicians he describes were actually of a labour or lib-dem hue. Maybe his memory is failing in that area-just putting it out there! Anyway, the article highlighted is simply a load of unsubstantiated bluster Edited July 10, 2014 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) It's actually quite insulting to the people of Scotland, imo. How many times, a Yes vote is not a vote for the SNP. It's not hard to get your head around. Yeah - its funny how the same people who'll evoke Margaret Thatcher, David Cameron, Eton Toffs, the Conservatives, alleged paedophile rings, and wars in Iraq and Afghanastan are quick to tell us that it's not about Alex Salmond, the SNP, wife beaters at Hollyrood, a Presiding Officer who admitted to knowing about stories linking Cyril Smith to the abuse of young boys and still recommending him for a knighthood. If it's not about the SNP or Alex Salmond why the f**k are the Yes Campaign so desperate to push him forward for referendum debates, and why against David Cameron who isn't even Scottish? If it's not about Alex Salmond, why not come out and condemn his bullying behaviour, and the behaviour of the likes of John Swinney who are damaging the Yes Campaign every single day of the week? The insult to the Scottish Electorate comes every day from the kind of people who will bully organisations to suppress their opinion and their political opposition - there is absolutely no doubt about that at all - and it's time we all roundly condemned that sort of behaviour. It comes from political activists who tell us to vote Yes to change whilst refusing to detail the costs, and it comes from the kind of people who use large lumps of taxpayers money to peddle spurious propaganda pish like the White Paper under the guise of the Scottish Government. Edited July 9, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 So by voting Yes we get rid of the "bullying" SNP and Westminster corruption. Bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Interesting piece in the Daily Telegraph. The parallels with many dictatorships are compelling (imo) http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/senior-nationalists-have-a-habit-of-warning-off-opponents-in-a-threatening Utter drivel, completely non-compelling (imo) and.... guess what? It's not from The Daily Telegraph, or any other newspaper either, it is an internet blog. Stu... I am surprised at you! Tut-tut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Bullying, like cybernats...easy to claim, no much proof. Are we really to believe that the scotch whisky association has been bullied by the Scottish government? Feckin' nonsense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/whisky-boss-no-intimidation-by-yes-camp-1-3472055 Clear hard facts from the whisky industry Stuart Bulling what bulling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 10, 2014 Report Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/whisky-boss-no-intimidation-by-yes-camp-1-3472055 Clear hard facts from the whisky industry Stuart Bulling what bulling ? He got the job in December 2013. Maybe he's been fortunate enough to have missed the bullying. Dispatches showed the evidence with e-mails from John Swinney telling public sector bosses to resign their membership of CBI Scotland - that's exactly the kind of interference that should never happen. There's clear evidence both physical and anecdotal of the level of pressure and bullying that has come from the very top of the SNP. I've got to admit though - I love how the Natsi's can dress up the current SWA bosses comments as "clear hard facts" despite it only being anecdotal, whilst the previous SWA chief is obviously lying simply because he holds an alternative view to that of the Government. I could use that to draw more parallels with Nazi Germany but we already know that Alex Salmond will never be anything more than a tin pot dictator because Scotland is about to deliver a very clear message that it wants to remain in the UK. Edited July 10, 2014 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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