Helicopter Crash....glasgow City Centre

[davidg]

gary was a good friend of mine gutted don't know what else to write RIP mate

Sorry to hear this.

[billyg]

gary was a good friend of mine gutted don't know what else to write RIP mate

Friend of mine for 30 odd years , good footballer with Renfrew Thistle , Renfrew YM and Moorpark . He loved Open Mic nights and Live bands and it's absolutely shocking that he should lose his life at one of those gigs. RIP Gary x

[HSS]

Chopper about to be lifted out of the pub.

[Russian Saint]

Friend of mine for 30 odd years , good footballer with Renfrew Thistle , Renfrew YM and Moorpark . He loved Open Mic nights and Live bands and it's absolutely shocking that he should lose his life at one of those gigs. RIP Gary x

Yeah, I knew Gary very well. I was at work and received a text from my brother to say that Gary was dead. Gutted, very popular chap and he will be missed.

[beyond our ken]

disappointing to see some of the family members of one of the possibly deceased criticise the recovery operation. their grief must be unbearable, but we dont want to see anyone else claimed by this tragedy. Hopefully they will be able to cope with the outcome and eventually be glad that are there no secondary injuries or deaths

The family of the lady who died in the mine shaft in ayrshire have been critical of the fire service and want to see someone prosecuted for their daughter's death, but we have seen too many people die trying to help others

[Buffs]

I understand the frustraton of the two families who are constantly being interviewed with regards to family members still being in the pub. I cant imagine what they are going through. However having been working at the incident and seeing inside the pub they dont appreciate how complex and time consuming the whole recovery process takes.

The helicopter and building were extremely unstable and it wasnt a case of emergency crews not doing enough quickly enough. Every movement was potentially dangerous for crews working inside.

Its an extremely harrowing and surreal sight inside the pub and i can assure you everybody is working in a highly professional and dignified manner in a difficult environment.

My thoughts are with the victins, their families and everybody affected by this tragedy.

[Drew]

I understand the frustraton of the two families who are constantly being interviewed with regards to family members still being in the pub. I cant imagine what they are going through. However having been working at the incident and seeing inside the pub they dont appreciate how complex and time consuming the whole recovery process takes.

The helicopter and building were extremely unstable and it wasnt a case of emergency crews not doing enough quickly enough. Every movement was potentially dangerous for crews working inside.

Its an extremely harrowing and surreal sight inside the pub and i can assure you everybody is working in a highly professional and dignified manner in a difficult environment.

My thoughts are with the victins, their families and everybody affected by this tragedy.

I think the work undertaken by the emergency services in tragic situations such as this is very humbling for those of us who can only imagine how difficult many of the tasks they routinely carry out must be.

If the unthinkable happens, we rely on others to step up to the plate, and the professionalism and resilience of the fire and rescue officers, police, and paramedics, in often horrendous circumstances, must be acknowledged.

We are all fortunate that there are people who sign up for jobs that many of us couldn't deal with. This must be agonising for the families, but I'm sure they would have nothing but gratitude and respect for the people on the ground who have been in that pub. Perhaps communication has been an issue as it often is during crises, but that should never detract from the outstanding work of the services involved.

I, for one, doff my cap to you and your colleagues, Stuart.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Drew

[pozbaird]

While also tragic, the responsibility of anyone to get down into that Ayrshire mine rescue hole was the mine rescue team - who were supposedly on their way to that incident quickly. Firefighters on the ground were informed the dedicated team, who had the proper equipment, were making jig time to the scene. I don't know how long they took, but I know it wasn't exactly quick. Now, is there an argument that the firefighters on the scene should have ignored the correct procedeures, and just dived in there to attempt a rescue? You could say 'yes' - they should have acted on instinct and steamed in. Easy to say, but not so easy to justify for several reasons. One, as I said, the mine rescue service with proper equipment was supposed to be on their way immediately. Two, prior to the Ayrshire incident, down in England, firefighters had tragically died in a collapsed building situation somewhere. Fire chiefs were going to be taken to court and charged with manslaughter for sending their men into an unknown and too-dangerous situation - Which is exactly what the Ayrshire situation, in the dark, and with many unknowns was. Indeed, it was said at the hearings by fire service personnel - 'If people genuinely want us to put our own lives on the line and leap blindly into tense situations, then we just cannot do that knowing that if it goes wrong, people will be taken to court and charged with the unlawful killing of their own men'. It simply cannot happen.

Health and safety gone mad? Not really, every incident like this is a complex and dangerous situation, with not only the people on the ground in danger if they 'just go in' - but the people who order them to go in being criminalised and having their lives and families lives, completely ruined too.

Health and safety can indeed 'go mad' - just listen to the loud 'ding dong! this is an emergency notice tone' message prior to every home game these days. How the hell did we ever manage at Hampden with 100,000 pissing down the backs of each other's legs, or how did we ever manage at Love Street with the oval terraces and Old Firm crowds? Amazing that there weren't regular scenes of death and carnage without the big 'ding dong!' messages over the tannoy.

Anyway, rant over.

[Buffs]

Thanks Drew. Appreciated.

Correct Poz. Health & safety is a major factor in decision making for emergency services The nature of the job tells you that there is an element of risk in all emergency incidents but you have to try and reduce the risk.

As you mention, the fatality in the Ayrshire mine was tragic for the woman and her family, but again it was a very challenging situation. Fire and Rescue service have working at height equipment and are well trained in using it. It can be used for working at height or for performing rescues in areas where it is very difficult to access and the use of ropes and harnesses are required.

The Firefighters first on scene at the mine were prepared to go against procedures and enter the mine but were prevented in doing so by senior officers.. They followed procedures to the law. It was pitch black in the early hours of the morning and they didnt know how stable or how deep the mine was. the mine rescue people took a number of hours to get to the scene by this time the casualty was deteriorating.

You can say they should have let the Firefighters go down the mine and rescue the woman ignoring safety procedures. It could have gone 2 ways, the rescue being a success and everybody gets out safely or the entrance to the mine collapses and more people are injured or even killed. The senior officers end up getting jailed on a manslaughter charge. Thats a decision I would not like to make.

The Fire and Rescue service now has a designating line rescue crew based at East Kilbride for incidents like this. they will be deployed and on scene within 1 hour.

thats my rant over aswell.

[BaldyOzBud]

Scunnered when I heard about Gary, he was a genuinely nice bloke, and I had the pleasure of his company many times in the Craig Dhu. Sincere condolences to his family and many friends, and of course to the family and friends of all the victims. R.I.P mate.

[Fluff Cultivator]

I've been scrolling through the words and thoughts of you all and would like to echo the consensus that our thoughts go to all those directly affected by this.

Though I haven't spoken to him in some time, my dad's a firefighter based in Canal Street and I know that though there are definitely questions to be answered politically with both UK and Scottish government of their treatment of such an essential emergency service these concerns are completely out of mind when it comes to such a tragedy. I have belief that though it would be harrowing beyond belief to have to wait so long to hear if your missing relative were so unfortunate to have lost their life, the time taken to safely remove the debris and have any chance of recovering anyone who may have been trapped would have been at the forefront of every officer, engineer and volunteer there.

I'm a Buddie born and bred, and though I live in Anderston now (I heard the crash from the flat) I believe events like this show what links us and not what separates us. We will always come together at times like this: not through obligation but through the community spirit that most of is possess.

It may seem like an empty gesture to some but I would recommend signing the book of condolence held in the city chambers if anyone gets a chance.

All the best.

[Fluff Cultivator]

Just read that back and realised the "coming together" bit may appear political. Certainly not my intent or belief. Interesting points made about health and safety earlier. Not all relevant to this particular tragedy but absolutely merit discussion and debate.

[PCCABE]

Mark's a top man, big Morton fan but top man anyway! Their wedding was a fantastic day and night in 2011.

Thanks for the kind words. Never knew them aswell as I'd have liked to.

One of those moments where you appreciate those closest to you that bit more.

Devastating.

Kirsty was a lovely person who I had the pleasure of working with on several occassions.

Mark is alovely guy who I can't even begin to imagine what he is going through.

Thanks everyone for their sympathies and I can assure you I gave my loved ones an extra hug when I got home from my shift in the early hours of Saturday morning.

RIP Kirsty.

[beyond our ken]

I ran an event at the stadium last week and had the emergency medical retrieval service appear as guest speakers, i got an e-mail from them on Tuesday telling me that they were turned out to the Clutha on friday, having already heard that their pilot and the two PCs who were part of the same emergency response team had perished. i cant imagine how it feels to go out to an incident knowing that you will be confirming close friends and colleagues as dead when you arrive. Hats off to all.

incidentally, 2 members of my team are doing a 3 peaks hill walk in the spring and half the proceeds of the sponsorship will go to the EMRS. i'll post the details here nearer the time

[HSS]

Bond Helicopters have grounded 22 choppers of the same make and model of the one involved in the Glasgow crash.This was after a fault was found in one of the machines yesterday.

[Drew]

Bond Helicopters have grounded 22 choppers of the same make and model of the one involved in the Glasgow crash.This was after a fault was found in one of the machines yesterday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25353001

[FS]

Bond Helicopters have grounded 22 choppers of the same make and model of the one involved in the Glasgow crash.This was after a fault was found in one of the machines yesterday.

Apparently a misreading fuel gauge on the chopper yesterday, I doubt that would have caused the Glasgow crash though as the AAIB have already said around 90 litres of fuel were onboard when the Police chopper came down. Then again maybe they just looked at the gauge in the wreckage...?

[windae cleaner]

Apparently a misreading fuel gauge on the chopper yesterday, I doubt that would have caused the Glasgow crash though as the AAIB have already said around 90 litres of fuel were onboard when the Police chopper came down. Then again maybe they just looked at the gauge in the wreckage...?

They said they drained that amount from the chopper

[Drew]

The AAIB have also said that the rotors weren't turning when the helicopted crashed.

[FS]

The AAIB have also said that the rotors weren't turning when the helicopted crashed.

And reports of the engines sputtering from local witnesses... Could be blocked fuel lines, ice maybe ?

[FS]

Death toll now 10

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25352971

Sad news...

[FS]

FS - doubt it could ice judging by the weather reports at the time. WeatherAt 2050 hrs, about 5 minutes after the helicopter took off from GCH, the weather at Glasgow International Airport (GIA), 4.5 nm west of GCH, was: visibility greater than 10 km, with the wind from 280° at 9 kt, FEW clouds at 4,000 ft, temperature 6°C, dew point 2°C and the QNH was 1024 hPa.At 2220 hrs the weather at GIA was CAVOK with the wind from 300° at 7 kt, temperature 5°C, dew point 2°C and the QNH was 1025 hPa. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/S9-2013%20G-SPAO%20v2.pdf

True but it was ice in the fuel lines that starved both engines of fuel whilst on final approach to Heathrow of the British Airways flight from China that crash landed just short of the runway a few years ago. The aircraft was handling normally at under 8000ft when suddenly both engines stopped offering power. They reckoned the ice contamination could have happened over Siberia but didn't affect the aircraft until final approach at low and relatively milder altitude.

The Police chopper is reported to have been hovering over Glasgow, then an extended mission east over Dalkieth before doing an RTB, before the crash. If the AAIB are saying the craft had enough fuel, and did not suffer an engine/gearbox failure, then a compromised fuel flow must be next on the list, ice obstruction or something else...

[pozbaird]

I'm no expert, but I'd have thought that following several tragic incidents in the North Sea, by now, all helicopters that take to the air in UK airspace would be required to have some sort of equipment fitted that would give investigators a fighting chance of clearly identifying what went wrong in the event of any subsequent helicopter incidents. It seems an act of gross negligence that ANY piece of machinery that takes to the skies and carries people is not fitted with all sorts of 'black box' type technology.

[HSS]

Any chance we can leave it to the AAIB to decide what happened rather than making wild guesses?

[salmonbuddie]

The Bungalow Bar are hosting two benefit gigs in aid of the Clutha on Fri 3rd and Sat 4th Jan 2014.

 

Might be something us Buddies could go and support on the Saturday as we have no game. We play Sun 5th Jan early KO (12.45pm) against Celtic.

 

http://www.thebungalowonline.com/gig-listings/4579831146

  2014       FRI 3rd JAN The Clutha Benefit Gig: Bands TBC 19:00 TBC SAT 4th JAN The Clutha Benefit Open Mic: 3-7pm 15:00 FREE ENTRY SAT 4th JAN The Clutha Benefit Gig: Bands TBC 19:00 £5 Entry

Pretty sure I saw a Facebook post by LNP (the guys that did the modstuff weekend) saying the bands were Captain Wow, The Laynes, Skarsoles and The Wiseacres.