pod Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 What degree do you have? Mental arithmetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Mental arithmetic You've got one in "sarcasm". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Players aren't assets to the business. They have no value on the balance sheet. Selling McGinn for about £300k would however turn the club's current losses to a break even or small profit which would make it more attractive. The recent annual losses are due to a depreciation in the value of the ground thus leading to a depreciation in our overall assets, but as we aren't going to sell our stadium it's not really relevant. Our cash trading over the last few years has been broadly break even - usually a small profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Players aren't assets to the business. They have no value on the balance sheet. Selling McGinn for about £300k would however turn the club's current losses to a break even or small profit which would make it more attractive. The current losses are paper losses. They occur from the depreciation of the stadium value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 The recent annual losses are due to a depreciation in the value of the ground thus leading to a depreciation in our overall assets, but as we aren't going to sell our stadium it's not really relevant. Our cash trading over the last few years has been broadly break even - usually a small profit. Beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 The current losses are paper losses. They occur from the depreciation of the stadium value.They are still losses and as stated by the chairman and auditor at the agm, they can't continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 They are evidence of a successful youth development system, and that is an asset of far higher value. Selling McGinn would be a tangible demonstration of this. They are not viable assets in and of themselves, and are therefore of limited vlaue to any potential owner. PS - I know many people who have completed psychology, law or history degrees. This does not make them psychologists, lawyers, or historians. But, in the words of Morrissey, what difference does it make? The new owners won't be buying the club in order to make capital gains on the value of the shares or to make huge dividends for themselves and I can't see them paying extra for the shares because the club has £300k extra in the bank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) They are still losses and as stated by the chairman and auditor at the agm, they can't continue. Yes, they can continue and they will continue! Someone with more expertise will be able to answer this but I'm sure that by declaring losses, even if only paper losses, the club can avoid paying tax... And was the auditor at the agm? I've never heard that before! Did the auditor buy some shares justto attend the agm? Edited May 23, 2014 by Isabella Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 But, in the words of Morrissey, what difference does it make? The new owners won't be buying the club in order to make capital gains on the value of the shares or to make huge dividends for themselves and I can't see them paying extra for the shares because the club has £300k extra in the bank! I am not the one referring to assets or dividends. The point I was making is that the current incombents might have more of an interest in selling a player who is worth a few bob before they depart, than in not doing so. The counter argument that was put to me was that they wouldn't sell one of their more valuable assets as this would, in turn, devalue the club in the eyes of any potential purchaser. I'm....well....not buying that (to coin a phrase). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Yes, they can continue and they will continue! Someone with more expertise will be able to answer this but I'm sure that by declaring losses, even if only paper losses, the club can avoid paying tax... And was the auditor at the agm? I've never heard that before! Did the auditor buy some shares justto attend the agm? He's there every year and answers questions on the accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Just imagine we were in the shape of most other SPL clubs (or deceased clubs), we'd have to accept something ridiculous like that. Thankfully, the ball is in our court these days; The only drawback is the length of time left on his contract. John McGinn is one of the most talented players I've watched live and he is worth a lot more than £100k. we would get double that figure, maybe 3x if he left to go down south at the end of his contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 As your so reliably informed, what's the delay.RaisingAs your so reliably informed, what's the delay.Raising cash is always the problem especially when you can't walk into a bank ( today ) and ask for 1.5 million loan to purchase a football club so the money has to be found from other sources. That brings it's own problems also because the loan would have to be paid back quicker. Next where do you think the money will come from to pay back the loan ? Correct club income anyone who thinks new owners will fund this out of their own pocket is NUTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Considering we turned down 500k for Kenny McLean, that offer for McGinn is an insulting attempt at theft! As for the stadium depreciation... if it HAS to be taken into account, can you tell me when it is due to be replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm74 Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 First class reporting from the BBC yet again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27528007 They really just don't give a f**k, do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 RaisingRaising cash is always the problem especially when you can't walk into a bank ( today ) and ask for 1.5 million loan to purchase a football club so the money has to be found from other sources. That brings it's own problems also because the loan would have to be paid back quicker. Next where do you think the money will come from to pay back the loan ? Correct club income anyone who thinks new owners will fund this out of their own pocket is NUTS So what your saying (and not northendsaint who has reliable information) is that the possible interested party will not be any better of financially than what we have at the moment. Suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 I am not the one referring to assets or dividends. The point I was making is that the current incombents might have more of an interest in selling a player who is worth a few bob before they depart, than in not doing so. The counter argument that was put to me was that they wouldn't sell one of their more valuable assets as this would, in turn, devalue the club in the eyes of any potential purchaser. I'm....well....not buying that (to coin a phrase). McGinn's value to the club, on the balance sheet, is virtually nil. He cost nothing, so doesn't have a registration cost being depreciated on the balance sheet. If we sell McGinn, it would have no effect on the balance sheet of the club. Players' values are not on the balance sheet, as they are wildly subjective. The value of a player is what another team will pay coupled with what we are prepared to accept. It is therefore very difficult to put a price on, unlike other assets such as property, fixtures and fittings etc, which will be valued on the balance sheet according to their cost less depreciation. Looking at last year's accounts, there are now no intangible assets, as there are no player registrations held for which we paid money for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Considering we turned down 500k for Kenny McLean, that offer for McGinn is an insulting attempt at theft! As for the stadium depreciation... if it HAS to be taken into account, can you tell me when it is due to be replaced? What the stadium meant to say, not in my life time Edited May 23, 2014 by pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Considering we turned down 500k for Kenny McLean, that offer for McGinn is an insulting attempt at theft! As for the stadium depreciation... if it HAS to be taken into account, can you tell me when it is due to be replaced? Stadium is depreciated at 2%, with capital allowances of the same being applied. Useful life of 50 years. It's not to do with when it is due to be replaced, but what it's useful economic life is thought to be... Edited May 23, 2014 by Soctty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) McGinn's value to the club, on the balance sheet, is virtually nil. He cost nothing, so doesn't have a registration cost being depreciated on the balance sheet. If we sell McGinn, it would have no effect on the balance sheet of the club. Players' values are not on the balance sheet, as they are wildly subjective. The value of a player is what another team will pay coupled with what we are prepared to accept. It is therefore very difficult to put a price on, unlike other assets such as property, fixtures and fittings etc, which will be valued on the balance sheet according to their cost less depreciation. Looking at last year's accounts, there are now no intangible assets, as there are no player registrations held for which we paid money for. Correct. This is the point I have been trying to make (probably in a less than sophisticated manner). Edited May 23, 2014 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Correct. This is the point I have been trying to make (probably in a less than sophisticated manner). I know mate. I tend to waffle at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) So what your saying (and not northendsaint who has reliable information) is that the possible interested party will not be any better of financially than what we have at the moment. Suicide. So what your saying (and not northendsaint who has reliable information) is that the possible interested party will not be any better of financially than what we have at the moment. Suicide.No what I am saying - from a club director - Lots of talk has been done for a (Loooong) time. No cash has been shown to the club. The rest is my opinion Therefore they are obviously trying to raise the cash which means a loan , correct ? Banks don't do football loans to purchase football clubs unless you sign over your assets which is not happening other wise they would have taken over a long time ago. So how will they raise the cash , from other sources of course which will have to be paid back. That can only come from one place. Club income. High risk is all your balls are on selling youth players to raise club income. If you can sell on the talent. At the end of the day a sugar daddy will never come along so this will be the way the club is sold. Personally I prefer where we are today with the board we have but they want out and we can't stop that. Sorry for going off course. Edited May 23, 2014 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Sorry for going off course. and stop repeating everything I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 I know mate. I tend to waffle at times. Maybe so, but it has taken me about a dozen posts on the subject, and I'm still toiling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Duke Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 RaisingRaising cash is always the problem especially when you can't walk into a bank ( today ) and ask for 1.5 million loan to purchase a football club so the money has to be found from other sources. That brings it's own problems also because the loan would have to be paid back quicker. Next where do you think the money will come from to pay back the loan ? Correct club income anyone who thinks new owners will fund this out of their own pocket is NUTS Where is the loan coming from in the first place? And you are saying that the new owners will syphon money out of the club to pay for their personal loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 we would get double that figure, maybe 3x if he left to go down south at the end of his contract Correct Chris... development fees alone would be £60k x years at the Club. I believe John has been with us for 10 yrs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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