saint in exile Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 What exactly is the spirit of the law? I've heard most of them like a wee dram now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Tax is a complex issue. So complex even HMRC don’t know how it works. This is evident in the number of high profiled cases they have lost. Ken Dodds, Harry Redknapp, Milan Mandaric & Peter Storrie. HMRC spent £2m of tax payers money and 4 years in litigation chasing an alleged unpaid tax on Harry Redknapps £198k bonus (£89k of tax – 45%) and lost the case. Harry Redknapp claimed that he had already paid more than £1m tax that year. This hardly shows that they know what they are doing and that tax on certain monies is fairly complex. Even if HMRC had won the Redknapp/Madaric case was it really worth pursuing 89k in tax from someone who allegedly already paid over £1m in tax. Haggling with HMRC over your and their interpretation of the rules on tax is not a moral issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Right now the lowest earners in our society are paying for all of it and the richest are taking the piss as per usual. Your wrong on that fact. IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) paper published on Tax in November 2014 advises that there are 29.9m tax payers in the UK. 38.5 % of income tax is paid by people earning greater than £41k/year (4.6million people) 28.9% of income tax is paid by people earning greater than £150k (343k people) Therefore this equates to 32.6 % being paid by the remainder if the population In simple terms 16.5 % of the population pays 67.4 % of the income tax in this country. (this excludes the other taxes that they pay) The lowest are not paying for it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Your wrong on that fact. IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) paper published on Tax in November 2014 advises that there are 29.9m tax payers in the UK. 38.5 % of income tax is paid by people earning greater than £41k/year (4.6million people) 28.9% of income tax is paid by people earning greater than £150k (343k people) Therefore this equates to 32.6 % being paid by the remainder if the population In simple terms 16.5 % of the population pays 67.4 % of the income tax in this country. (this excludes the other taxes that they pay) The lowest are not paying for it all. I actually meant to say the lowest earning tax payers. I assumed that would have been obvious. Edited January 30, 2015 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I actually meant to say the lowest earning tax payers. I assumed that would have been obvious. It was obvious. Read my post again the figures provided relate to tax payers. The lowest tax payers are not paying for the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 What exactly is the spirit of the law? The spirit of the law is that you have to pay a certain amount of tax on the income you earn. If someone were to come to me with a scheme that legislators hadn't thought of when writing the law, that means I can get away with paying less tax then everyone else, then I would deem that to be against the spirit of the law, and so wouldn't be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 How can hmrc retrospectively claim money for something which the only now deem illegal? Simple, their argument is that it was always wrong to use this avoidance scheme because those who used the scheme have a different interpretation of the rules and the taxman is saying he will now prove the correct interpretation of the rules will show that tax has been wrongly avoided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leolovesstmfc Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 If someone offered me a way too reduce how much Tax I pay I would sign up too! If it's leagal at the time he's done nothing wrong it's that simple!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 If someone offered me a way too reduce how much Tax I pay I would sign up too! And what happens when you are in need of essential services that are funded by people who don't look for ways of dodging contributing to the public purse based on their capacity to do so? Do you say, "no thanks, I haven't weighed in as I could have done so will pass"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 And what happens when you are in need of essential services that are funded by people who don't look for ways of dodging contributing to the public purse based on their capacity to do so? Do you say, "no thanks, I haven't weighed in as I could have done so will pass"? Sanctimonious pish. There's hardly a guy on this site who hasn't paid cash in hand to someone at some point, thus depriving the Exchequer of both VAT and income tax. Glass houses and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Sanctimonious pish. There's hardly a guy on this site who hasn't paid cash in hand to someone at some point, thus depriving the Exchequer of both VAT and income tax. Glass houses and all that. I am happy for you to identify my glass house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I am happy for you to identify my glass house. Did you swap your shed for one of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Because you can dress this up in all the legal terms you like but deep down inside everyone who engages in this knows it's morally indefensible to dodge tax in this type of way when people on low salaries are unable to do so. The reaction of those found to be taking part is called a guilty conscience. You should try it Dicky. It's what holds society together and provides us with taxes which stop us having to live in caves. Right now the lowest earners in our society are paying for all of it and the richest are taking the piss as per usual. Footballers are a case in point. It's not enough to earn £20k to £50k per week? You have to try to get out of paying any tax as well? WTF? For me the immorality lies in the tax system itself. How can it possibly be fair that a call centre worker has to work for around 1 hour per 8 hour day to pay their share, whilst someone like me will have to work around 5 hours in a 12 hour shift to pay mine? I haven't had a taxpayer funded university education, I use private healthcare wherever possible, and in my whole working life I've spent a total of 1 week out of work on whatever the job seekers allowance was called way back then. If there is a legal route for me to avoid paying some tax of course I'll take it, if I think it's worth it. I think most on here will have done so in the past too, whether it's from using ISA's or Pensions as a tax efficient savings vehicle, or whether it's from buying DVD's and CD's from the likes of Play.com who used to - and perhaps still do - ship from the Channel Isles to avoid VAT. I've got a basic understanding of the tax system in the UK but I'm no expert. In the past I've been told by accountants wanting my business that I should become a Limited Company or set up as a sole trader using an umbrella company so that I can offset day to day expenses like my mobile phone bill, my petrol costs, and even the depreciation in the value of my car as losses in my business to reduce my tax bill. I would have done it too if I felt it would be hassle free enough to be worth it. Is any of that really any different to what Teale has done here? You have to remember as well that the speculation on this website over recent weeks has been about a takeover of the club that may mean St Mirren becomes a tax avoidance scheme for some foreign owners. No-one knows for certain if that really is the business plan but it certainly appears to have been the way in which these prospective buyers ran their last football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Did you actually READ what I posted? I pointed out that the moral issue existed. But it IS a legal question, whether you like it or not You`re wasting your breath. He has been listening to the voices in his head for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 St Mirren legend as a player. Soon to become a St Mirren legend as a manager. Gary Teale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepaisleypanda Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I haven't had a taxpayer funded university education, I use private healthcare wherever possible, 1) Thick as f**k! 2) Thick as f**k Not to mention - only. encouraging the social problems!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) It hasn't slipped my notice BTW that some of the people on this thread castigating tax avoidance schemes and those who use them have stated they actually have supported, even JOINED, political parties who offered the likes of Amazon, Google and Starbucks the opportunity to use an Independent Scotland to avoid having to pay tax. I guess all that tax payer funded Further Education didn't teach them the ability to have conviction in their beliefs. Edited January 31, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Two hours.... Can we get the deal done. Can Gary come through.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31069070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another alias Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 1) Thick as f**k! 2) Thick as f**k Not to mention - only. encouraging the social problems!! Don't be so harsh on yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leolovesstmfc Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sorry mate but get your facts right I have always worked never claimed any money so I have paid my way over the years! So if someone was to offer me a scheme that reduces my Tax I would sign up today!! When Garry and his advisor's signed up to this scheme it was legal. As for denying you tax like Garry I pay Tax on my earnings tax on my petrol tax on my beer Road tax council tax VAT tax National insurance Tax! Garry is a football manager who cares if he finds a legal loophole that lets him pay less tax boads well for St.Mirren wonder if he could find a loophole in St.Mirren policy and sign a Central Defender by monday!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sorry mate but get your facts right I have always worked never claimed any money so I have paid my way over the years! So if someone was to offer me a scheme that reduces my Tax I would sign up today!! When Garry and his advisor's signed up to this scheme it was legal. As for denying you tax like Garry I pay Tax on my earnings tax on my petrol tax on my beer Road tax council tax VAT tax National insurance Tax! Garry is a football manager who cares if he finds a legal loophole that lets him pay less tax boads well for St.Mirren wonder if he could find a loophole in St.Mirren policy and sign a Central Defender by monday!!! You're missing the point. The schemes are legal but they won't be legal if they are being abused/misused. That's what HMRC are looking into. They won't be looking at the schemes that are doing what they're supposed to be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leolovesstmfc Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Yes but if it was legal at the time there is no civil or fraudulent crimes committed so therefore Garry has done nothing wrong! Also it's not like he's taking our tax! There are plenty of people I pay for to sit in there bed not doing anything all day through paying tax! And Garry Teale is not one of them is he?? As for if Scotland was to offer company's tax free incentives to set up in Scotland doesn't that create more jobs that employee's pay Tax from this reducing unemployment and then less of us who do and can work are paying less or the same and getting more for it? Also why set up in England when Scotlands cheaper company's would think! Just think Scotland the Tax loophole Monaco Switzerland have done it for years both do ok don't they? Company's Christmas works nights out are Tax deductable yet we all go to them! This is a football page move on Garry's done nothing wrong. Edited February 1, 2015 by leolovesstmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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