Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Murray is no Fergie that's for sure. Looking back on Gilmours appointments in his time at the club Hendrie was the only one in the Fergie mould. As nosferatu said Hendrie had gotten Berwick Rangers promoted. He had his side playing some really attractive football. Berwick Rangers fans were cooing about how good it all had been and they'd been used to recent success under Jim Jeffries and Jimmy Crease at that time. For St Mirren fans watching on Hendrie was left of field because we'd believed that it was more likely to be an ex Saint appointed to the role. Murray isn't anything like Fergie. No-one outside of his media pals has been raving about him, and as has been pointed out already he's not made Dumbarton a difficult to beat side, nor had them playing superb football. I also happen to know a couple of players who worked for Murray at Dumbarton and they don't speak positively of him as a coach either. There were better coaches available and who were interested in the job. Murray is a poor choice IMO and like nosferatu I suspect that I'll regularly be able to post on this forum throughout the coming season to remind you all that I was one of those who told you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 A bit "meh!" about this, but benefit of the doubt. After all, the last two didn't do much good. Hopefully he can get us moving in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 By that logic any manager, at any part time club with even less achievement (if possible) than Murray was a contender for the role. He can be judged on his performance... Shipped 79 goals in a lower league, many against teams we had hoped to be competing with for promotion. Fat chance now the OL' Seventy-Niner is in town! Will say this one last time. You cannot compare Dumbarton's squad and resources to our own. The board's decision will be based on many factors other than Dumbarton losing 79 goals and more so what Ian can bring to the club. Terry Butcher and Gordon Strachen managed clubs that were relegated yet both found success at different clubs. I will support our new manager and judge him on results. You need to do the same as a Saints supporter or perhaps you will decide to spend your money elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) After Craig and Teale i'm delighted!! This guy has kept a part time team in the championship. He has the chance to work with a team that has a bigger budget, better facilities and bigger crowds. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of squad Murray builds for the new season. Edited May 22, 2015 by proudtobeabuddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Murray is no Fergie that's for sure. Looking back on Gilmours appointments in his time at the club Hendrie was the only one in the Fergie mould. As nosferatu said Hendrie had gotten Berwick Rangers promoted. He had his side playing some really attractive football. Berwick Rangers fans were cooing about how good it all had been and they'd been used to recent success under Jim Jeffries and Jimmy Crease at that time. For St Mirren fans watching on Hendrie was left of field because we'd believed that it was more likely to be an ex Saint appointed to the role. Murray isn't anything like Fergie. No-one outside of his media pals has been raving about him, and as has been pointed out already he's not made Dumbarton a difficult to beat side, nor had them playing superb football. I also happen to know a couple of players who worked for Murray at Dumbarton and they don't speak positively of him as a coach either. There were better coaches available and who were interested in the job. Murray is a poor choice IMO and like nosferatu I suspect that I'll regularly be able to post on this forum throughout the coming season to remind you all that I was one of those who told you so. Just not spending any time respondong to a non St Mirren supporter with a personal vendetta against the club. You've made your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Will say this one last time. You cannot compare Dumbarton's squad and resources to our own. The board's decision will be based on many factors other than Dumbarton losing 79 goals and more so what Ian can bring to the club. Terry Butcher and Gordon Strachen managed clubs that were relegated yet both found success at different clubs. I will support our new manager and judge him on results. You need to do the same as a Saints supporter or perhaps you will decide to spend your money elsewhere? You can compare teams that will be in the same division especially if the manager of one poorly performing team moves to another in that league. His team have been gash... End of. On a different note it makes Gilmour look a clown in the media's eyes for coming out and stating "the new manager will have to be someone who has worked well/developed youth" because this guy has signed a succession of players we let go because of age and diminishing form. Mind you maybe he is looking at Mair to command his defence at SMP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Ah, I see theres a reasonable explanation for presiding over conceding 79 goals against teams we had hoped to compete with for promotion. Silly me I stupidly thought appointing someone whose team performed worse than ours was a bad thing, but I see now that it is the way forward.Lets see if we can ship 80 next season Ian! You have the experience lad.[/quote ] Different leagues and different resources. It is ridiculous to suggest that because a part time team ships 79 goals then a different full time will ship more because the same manager is in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Will say this one last time. You cannot compare Dumbarton's squad and resources to our own. The board's decision will be based on many factors other than Dumbarton losing 79 goals and more so what Ian can bring to the club. Terry Butcher and Gordon Strachen managed clubs that were relegated yet both found success at different clubs. I will support our new manager and judge him on results. You need to do the same as a Saints supporter or perhaps you will decide to spend your money elsewhere? Laugh... I nearly bought a round. Strachan took Southampton to an FA cup final, Butcher had Motherwell flying and Ian Murray has shipped more goals than us as his calling card. Your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Ah, I see theres a reasonable explanation for presiding over conceding 79 goals against teams we had hoped to compete with for promotion. Silly me I stupidly thought appointing someone whose team performed worse than ours was a bad thing, but I see now that it is the way forward.Lets see if we can ship 80 next season Ian! You have the experience lad.[/quote ] Different leagues and different resources. It is ridiculous to suggest that because a part time team ships 79 goals then a different full time will ship more because the same manager is in charge. Yeah you are right. If he performs as well as this season it could be more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Will say this one last time. You cannot compare Dumbarton's squad and resources to our own. The board's decision will be based on many factors other than Dumbarton losing 79 goals and more so what Ian can bring to the club. Terry Butcher and Gordon Strachen managed clubs that were relegated yet both found success at different clubs. I will support our new manager and judge him on results. You need to do the same as a Saints supporter or perhaps you will decide to spend your money elsewhere? Ofcourse you can. Dumbartons squad had Lee Mair, David Van Zanten, Hugh Murray, Brian Prunty, Mark Wilson, Chris Kane, Paul McGinn, Ian Murray, and Jack Ross all playing for them over the last two seasons and they'd shop around the lower leagues for players like Archie Campbell - all very much in the same kind of realm and market that St Mirren operate in. Look at Murray's squad for this season - only two lads in the whole squad came through the youth ranks at Dumbarton. I don't know who he's kidding on but this guy isn't a coach that develops young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Laugh... I nearly bought a round. Strachan took Southampton to an FA cup final, Butcher had Motherwell flying and Ian Murray has shipped more goals than us as his calling card. Your point? On considerably higher budgets than part-time Dumbarton's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Ofcourse you can. Dumbartons squad had Lee Mair, David Van Zanten, Hugh Murray, Brian Prunty, Mark Wilson, Chris Kane, Paul McGinn, Ian Murray, and Jack Ross all playing for them over the last two seasons and they'd shop around the lower leagues for players like Archie Campbell - all very much in the same kind of realm and market that St Mirren operate in. Look at Murray's squad for this season - only two lads in the whole squad came through the youth ranks at Dumbarton. I don't know who he's kidding on but this guy isn't a coach that develops young talent. He's been at Dumbarton for 2 seasons? Anyway....He's only 34 and a young manager so how can you possibly judge him after one managerial job? Was Alex Ferguson judged solely on his first managerial job? Get real Stuart... Edited May 22, 2015 by proudtobeabuddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Less than a year ago, the BoD opted not to offer Lennon a new deal (probably the majority agreed that this was the right decision on balance) and then appointed Tommy Craig (and pretty much nobody thought that was a good decision). Bringing us up to date, we have an appointment that has been met with cautious approval for some, disappointment for others. After Craig's appointment, that sounds like progress. A few boxes have certainly been ticked for me. There appears to have been a proper recruitment process; there has been an end to internal appointments; and there will certainly be a freshness about the club. Whether it works out or otherwise is clearly another matter altogether, but I'm getting a decent sense that this is a positive way to go. Edited May 22, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 You can compare teams that will be in the same division especially if the manager of one poorly performing team moves to another in that league. His team have been gash... End of. On a different note it makes Gilmour look a clown in the media's eyes for coming out and stating "the new manager will have to be someone who has worked well/developed youth" because this guy has signed a succession of players we let go because of age and diminishing form. Mind you maybe he is looking at Mair to command his defence at SMP? Again apples and pears. If you were comparing us with Falkirk or Hibs then I would agree but St Mirren compared to Dumbarton is not the same for the reasons I have already stated. As for who our squad is? Well, we need to wait and see. Throwing daft comments like Lee Mair gives you no credit mate. Every appointment is a gamble so we just need to accept the board's decision and get behind the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 On considerably higher budgets than part-time Dumbarton's Not my comparison, ask the geezer why he cited them in the same breath as Murderay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Again apples and pears. If you were comparing us with Falkirk or Hibs then I would agree but St Mirren compared to Dumbarton is not the same for the reasons I have already stated. As for who our squad is? Well, we need to wait and see. Throwing daft comments like Lee Mair gives you no credit mate. Every appointment is a gamble so we just need to accept the board's decision and get behind the team. I didn't sign Lee Mair, Murray did. I saw all those bruises from ten foot barge poles on them both though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Laugh... I nearly bought a round. Strachan took Southampton to an FA cup final, Butcher had Motherwell flying and Ian Murray has shipped more goals than us as his calling card. Your point? Again cherry picking. I did say they had success but they also relegated a number of teams they managed. My point entirely. Strachan took Coventry down while Butcher took 3 teams down including ICT which he brought straight back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I didn't sign Lee Mair, Murray did. I saw all those bruises from ten foot barge poles on them both though! No, you alluded to Murray signing him for SMP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 No, you alluded to Murray signing him for SMP. I look at what the guy 'hasn't done' and try from that to look forward at what he 'might achieve' and try as I might all i get are big ALARM BELLS that we've been here, and done this before with guys completely out of their depth, no track record in relation to our stated aim, or groundswell of opinion in their favour from people in the know. I get no sense of what, if anything he will achieve. And before someone else says 'he kept a part time club in the championship' ask yourself is that Your aim for SMFC...? To avoid being relegated to League One..? Because that is the sum of his achievement and performance to date! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 He's been at Dumbarton for 2 seasons? Anyway....He's only 34 and a young manager so how can you possibly judge him after one managerial job? Was Alex Ferguson judged solely on his first managerial job? Get real Stuart... Joined Dumbarton in November 2012. I think it's fair to judge him over his squads from the last two seasons only as they were all his players. He's definitely not a coach who will progress youngsters through the club and even with experienced players in his squad he's proved to be poor at organising them defensively and making Dumbarton a difficult team to beat. I'll stick with my verdict. The appointment is uninspiring, poor, even bizarre given all the talk about youth development being the way forward. Oh and aye Ferguson was judged by St Mirren on his first managerial appointment. Willie Cunningham recommended him to Willie Todd having seen him in action at East Stirling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Not my comparison, ask the geezer why he cited them in the same breath as Murderay. If you are referring to me, I simply used 2 managers who had both failed and succeeded at different clubs. Murray may be a revelation and he may bomb. I have no idea but what I intend to do is back him 100% and judge him on how well our team play and how successful we are on the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Joined Dumbarton in November 2012. I think it's fair to judge him over his squads from the last two seasons only as they were all his players. He's definitely not a coach who will progress youngsters through the club and even with experienced players in his squad he's proved to be poor at organising them defensively and making Dumbarton a difficult team to beat. I'll stick with my verdict. The appointment is uninspiring, poor, even bizarre given all the talk about youth development being the way forward. Oh and aye Ferguson was judged by St Mirren on his first managerial appointment. Willie Cunningham recommended him to Willie Todd having seen him in action at East Stirling. Who was your choice for the gig StuD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I look at what the guy 'hasn't done' and try from that to look forward at what he 'might achieve' and try as I might all i get are big ALARM BELLS that we've been here, and done this before with guys completely out of their depth, no track record in relation to our stated aim, or groundswell of opinion in their favour from people in the know. I get no sense of what, if anything he will achieve. And before someone else says 'he kept a part time club in the championship' ask yourself is that Your aim for SMFC...? To avoid being relegated to League One..? Because that is the sum of his achievement and performance to date! He is 34 ffs. He has had 2 seasons in management and I would bet the Dumbarton Board had one key aim, keep them in the Championship. He has achieved that. Eddie Howe at Bournemouth had no track record and look what he did at that club. McIntyre had no track record but kept RC up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 His record is shipped 79 goals this season, thats worse than ours by a long way! We got relegated by a distance this season. That's much worse than Murray's worst ever season as a manager! Ofcourse you can. Dumbartons squad had Lee Mair, David Van Zanten, Hugh Murray, Brian Prunty, Mark Wilson, Chris Kane, Paul McGinn, Ian Murray, and Jack Ross all playing for them over the last two seasons and they'd shop around the lower leagues for players like Archie Campbell - all very much in the same kind of realm and market that St Mirren operate in. Look at Murray's squad for this season - only two lads in the whole squad came through the youth ranks at Dumbarton. I don't know who he's kidding on but this guy isn't a coach that develops young talent. There either is talent in the Dumbarton youth ranks, or there is not. I suspect strongly that there were no players good enough to step up from their youth set-up, given it's a small part-time club punching way above its weight. At St Mirren, there are young players good enough for the Championship - let's see what he does with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 2 good things today. A new manager and....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.