TsuMirren Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 The club has been a depreciating asset for years, a wee peak after the league cup triumph, when tbh I reckon the BoD thought , we've cracked it, watch for the offers . The only thing that cracked in reality was any hope of a much needed regime change. Onwards we drift, though feck knows to where next. The current route map indicates a stop at tumbleweed central. It's undoubtedly as painful,for GIlmour et al right enough as it is for the fans. No winners here, on or off the park. Meanwhile it's a mess that really only could be made at St Mirren, but at least it's our mess to revel in.................if only Carlsberg sponsored football club implosions It certainly must be worth less. The potential is there, but it will take a lot of work to get things back round. As for the LC win, without Goncalves or the injury to McLean it may never have happened. The form afterwards and money spent paying off players was what I really judge that period on. At this point it's hard to say what the current board should do. I'm of the opinion that they should have taken Gordon 's first offer. I also believe that we, as a collective, would have allowed the Argies, 10000 Hours or the English group to have destroyed the club had the BOD just played ball a wee bit more with either. If we couldn't have done that then why are we babbling on about fans control being the way ahead or even griping about those who did put their money in. Looking at Newport, their member numbers went from 400 to just under 2,000 and the share issue raised over £200k. Main difference being their Chairman has just handed over his shares and the money raised will go to running th club. On the flip side, Ebbsfleet hae thousands of members and made an utter arse of it...though, mostly due to a few people in the club. The current GS & SMISA offer will cost more than the former and shouldn't be as much of a mess as the later. Here's hoping the background work brings us a plan that everyone can get on board with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 The club has been a depreciating asset for years, a wee peak after the league cup triumph, when tbh I reckon the BoD thought , we've cracked it, watch for the offers . The only thing that cracked in reality was any hope of a much needed regime change. Onwards we drift, though feck knows to where next. The current route map indicates a stop at tumbleweed central. It's undoubtedly as painful,for GIlmour et al right enough as it is for the fans. No winners here, on or off the park. Meanwhile it's a mess that really only could be made at St Mirren, but at least it's our mess to revel in.................if only Carlsberg sponsored football club implosions It certainly must be worth less. The potential is there, but it will take a lot of work to get things back round. As for the LC win, without Goncalves or the injury to McLean it may never have happened. The form afterwards and money spent paying off players was what I really judge that period on. At this point it's hard to say what the current board should do. I'm of the opinion that they should have taken Gordon 's first offer. I also believe that we, as a collective, would have allowed the Argies, 10000 Hours or the English group to have destroyed the club had the BOD just played ball a wee bit more with either. If we couldn't have done that then why are we babbling on about fans control being the way ahead or even griping about those who did put their money in. Looking at Newport, their member numbers went from 400 to just under 2,000 and the share issue raised over £200k. Main difference being their Chairman has just handed over his shares and the money raised will go to running th club. On the flip side, Ebbsfleet hae thousands of members and made an utter arse of it...though, mostly due to a few people in the club. The current GS & SMISA offer will cost more than the former and shouldn't be as much of a mess as the later. Here's hoping the background work brings us a plan that everyone can get on board with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Selt yet? Edited October 1, 2015 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think it's nice that Lookatme's carer defends him at every opportunity no matter how much shite he spouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Perhaps the inevitable pressure that Gilmour et al will be experiencing given the current shambles will increase their eagerness to pass the club on. Might they be less inclined to camp in for a few more thrup'ny bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Perhaps the inevitable pressure that Gilmour et al will be experiencing given the current shambles will increase their eagerness to pass the club on. Might they be less inclined to camp in for a few more thrup'ny bits? Camp...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Camp...? Chase me...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I think it's nice that Lookatme's carer defends him at every opportunity no matter how much shite he spouts. Who is Lookatme ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Personally i don't think Smisa should make an offer at present. The consortium are asking for over a million quid for an entity which has no real value. It doesn't make money, in fact it struggles to wash its face. I think Smisa should pull back from negotiations, sit tight and let the sellers do the asking, if the Newport Chairman can basically hand the club to the fans once they have amassed sufficient funds to run the club, then so can our lot. If we agree to pay their asking price the support will be in hock to GLS for many years, and he sure as hell,wont be putting money into the club, so we could be digging our own grave. If GLS wants to be chairman so,badly, then he can buy the club. It would be foolish to shell out now for a diminishing asset. Time to make decisions with the head,rather than the heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Personally i don't think Smisa should make an offer at present. The consortium are asking for over a million quid for an entity which has no real value. It doesn't make money, in fact it struggles to wash its face. I think Smisa should pull back from negotiations, sit tight and let the sellers do the asking, if the Newport Chairman can basically hand the club to the fans once they have amassed sufficient funds to run the club, then so can our lot. If we agree to pay their asking price the support will be in hock to GLS for many years, and he sure as hell,wont be putting money into the club, so we could be digging our own grave. If GLS wants to be chairman so,badly, then he can buy the club. It would be foolish to shell out now for a diminishing asset. Time to make decisions with the head,rather than the heart! So, how long do wee stand by and witness the ongoing decline of the club despite there being a potential option to intervene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 So, how long do wee stand by and witness the ongoing decline of the club despite there being a potential option to intervene? In my view it's the cost of the option to intervene that is in question, the more the fans have to pay, the less they have to hold in reserve. I dont know the amount required for a buyout, the fact that it is taking so long to be agreed tells me that it is an unsustainable amount and i think it is wrong to treat fans as a body to negotiate with on cost. The fans are not standing by witnessing the decline, they are having to negotiate a deal when it should be an amount put down and a decision made either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Personally i don't think Smisa should make an offer at present. The consortium are asking for over a million quid for an entity which has no real value. It doesn't make money, in fact it struggles to wash its face. I think Smisa should pull back from negotiations, sit tight and let the sellers do the asking, if the Newport Chairman can basically hand the club to the fans once they have amassed sufficient funds to run the club, then so can our lot. If we agree to pay their asking price the support will be in hock to GLS for many years, and he sure as hell,wont be putting money into the club, so we could be digging our own grave. If GLS wants to be chairman so,badly, then he can buy the club. It would be foolish to shell out now for a diminishing asset. Time to make decisions with the head,rather than the heart! Not often I agree with you but on this you are totally correct. The club as a business is completely worthless. Last season at least you could argue that the top flight position was a sellable asset that might have interested some from down Govan way, but there's no value to that any more. It's even quite tenuous to claim that the stadium as an asset has any value. It is on a plot of land that remained vacant for many, many years before St Mirren moved in and there can't be many commercial operations that would view a vacant football stadium as a viable premise to run their business from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Not often I agree with you but on this you are totally correct. The club as a business is completely worthless. Last season at least you could argue that the top flight position was a sellable asset that might have interested some from down Govan way, but there's no value to that any more. It's even quite tenuous to claim that the stadium as an asset has any value. It is on a plot of land that remained vacant for many, many years before St Mirren moved in and there can't be many commercial operations that would view a vacant football stadium as a viable premise to run their business from. Not often I agree with the two of you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 So, how long do wee stand by and witness the ongoing decline of the club despite there being a potential option to intervene? The people with the power to end this decline are the current custodians, they have created this mess and continue to make poor, ill conceived decisions with scant regard for the fan/customer who is keeping the club afloat. They are the ones your question should be aimed at, they are the ones who have said they want out They are the ones who said they are running on empty.... If its that bad, why dont they put the club first and hand over the reins to a properly formed commitee in the supporters trust. We could then commit as individuals, groups, bussinesses to paying a monthly fee to build the required reserves to run the club. The potential option you speak of at the moment would leave the support in an even worse position of financial exposure than the 10000 hours car crash. Now is the time for the fans tomthink with the head, not the heart. The consortium have tied every trick in the book to tug at the heart strings of the support, whilst presiding over a series of calamatious, avoidable failures. New Celtic Park anyone..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Not often I agree with you but on this you are totally correct. The club as a business is completely worthless. Last season at least you could argue that the top flight position was a sellable asset that might have interested some from down Govan way, but there's no value to that any more. It's even quite tenuous to claim that the stadium as an asset has any value. It is on a plot of land that remained vacant for many, many years before St Mirren moved in and there can't be many commercial operations that would view a vacant football stadium as a viable premise to run their business from. Not often I agree with the two of you!!!It would be sheer madness for the support to commit to a purchase that would see us in hock to GLS and the sellers to a sum well over a million quid, when what we would effectively be buying is a big f**king debt! Crashing headlong to League One...... What club is worth a million quid in league one?Hearts fans have now paid in to their club more than it sold for and they own nothing of it! And that was relatively debt free entity when it was taken out of the administrators hands. We should hold off till the parachute payments end.... Then we will have the strongest hand to negotiate with! Edited October 5, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) The people with the power to end this decline are the current custodians, they have created this mess and continue to make poor, ill conceived decisions with scant regard for the fan/customer who is keeping the club afloat. They are the ones your question should be aimed at, they are the ones who have said they want out They are the ones who said they are running on empty.... If its that bad, why dont they put the club first and hand over the reins to a properly formed commitee in the supporters trust. We could then commit as individuals, groups, bussinesses to paying a monthly fee to build the required reserves to run the club. The potential option you speak of at the moment would leave the support in an even worse position of financial exposure than the 10000 hours car crash. Now is the time for the fans tomthink with the head, not the heart. The consortium have tied every trick in the book to tug at the heart strings of the support, whilst presiding over a series of calamatious, avoidable failures. New Celtic Park anyone..? I don't dispute these points. As most who have bothered to read my slabberings on here over the years will know, I am no fanboy of the current BoD. Far from it, and I have not been slow in letting them know at times. I agree that their insistence in holding out for what has always been a pie in the sky payout is more then a little unsavoury. My point is that, notwithstanding their failings and deficiencies, the club is there to be salvaged.... just. The talk of a viable business etc., is predicated on the assumption that supporters are looking for a return beyond survival of the club and modest, incremental progress. I pay a tenner to SMiSA each month and get hee haw of any tangible benefit in return. I understand and accept that, as I would were that tenner going towards a fan ownership scheme. I'm not naive enough to think that a joint SMiSA/GLS buyout would be a panacea to all the ills the club is suffering. From my perspective, however, I would happily shoulder a degree of responsibility (however limited that would be in practice) for its fate as opposed to continually sitting in the wings berating Gilmour et al. As things stand, some model of shared ownership seems to be the only option in that regard. Edited October 5, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I don't dispute these points. As most who have bothered to read my slabberings on here over the years will know, I am no fanboy of the current BoD. Far from it, and I have not been slow in letting them know at times. I agree that their insistence in holding out for what has always been a pie in the sky payout is more then a little unsavoury. My point is that, notwithstanding their failings and deficiencies, the club is there to be salvaged.... just. The talk of a viable business etc., is predicated on the assumption that supporters are looking for a return beyond survival of the club and modest, incremental progress. I pay a tenner to SMiSA each month and get hee haw of any tangible benefit in return. I understand and accept that, as I would were that tenner going towards a fan ownership scheme. I'm not naive enough to think that a joint SMiSA/GLS buyout would be a panacea to all the ills the club is suffering. From my perspective, however, I would happily shoulder a degree of responsibility (however limited that would be in practice) for its fate as opposed to continually sitting in the wings berating Gilmour et al. As things stand, some model of shared ownership seems to be the only option in that regard. To each their own! I cant see (other than a massive debt burden that would IMO sink the club for good) what is curently on offer that a fan takeover could agree to. We dont have the reserves to payout ove a million quid to takeover, and then keep the club afloat whilst its rebuilt, re-launched and re-branded with huge payments due each month to GLS and perhaps still the sellers? Like I say, wait till the parachute payments stop and then make a sensible approach to take it off their hands. Its alteady been six years, i am sure we can last out one or two more to get a realistic deal done. The proposal as it stands to me benefits the sellers and GLS as both get what no one else will pay them by tugging at the fans heartstrings. Never be afraid of walking away from any deal you are not happy with. This one needs ditching as it is eating up time, energy, goodwill and the patience of the people who will be expected to front up the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) To each their own! I cant see (other than a massive debt burden that would IMO sink the club for good) what is curently on offer that a fan takeover could agree to. We dont have the reserves to payout ove a million quid to takeover, and then keep the club afloat whilst its rebuilt, re-launched and re-branded with huge payments due each month to GLS and perhaps still the sellers? Like I say, wait till the parachute payments stop and then make a sensible approach to take it off their hands. Its alteady been six years, i am sure we can last out one or two more to get a realistic deal done. The proposal as it stands to me benefits the sellers and GLS as both get what no one else will pay them by tugging at the fans heartstrings. Never be afraid of walking away from any deal you are not happy with. This one needs ditching as it is eating up time, energy, goodwill and the patience of the people who will be expected to front up the money! In fairness, neither you nor I know what is on the table (if anything), or how any negotiations might be going. I don't believe for a minute that Gordon Scott is going to ride in on a white charger and save the day without any concern as to how he might benefit or otherwise. Why would he? I'd be sceptical about his mental state if he did. I don't, however, have any reason to think that he would deliberately inflict harm on the club. The very fact that he is interested in running the club in some capacity, in itself, gives him some credibility (given the current custodians would rather be elsewhere). In any event, like everyone else, I will be observing how things play out. I'm not hugely confident that it will all work out swimmingly, but can only hope for the best. Edited October 5, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 In fairness, neither you nor I know what is on the table (if anything), or how any negotiations might be going. I don't believe for a minute that Gordon Scott is going to ride in on a white charger and save the day without any concern as to how he might benefit or otherwise. Why would he? I'd be sceptical about his mental state if he did. I don't, however, have any reason to think that he would deliberately inflict harm on the club. The very fact that he is interested in running the club in some capacity, in itself, gives him some credibility (given the current custodians would rather be elsewhere). In any event, like everyone else, I will be observing how things play out. I'm not hugely confident that it will all work out swimmingly, but can only hope for the best. I dont think GLS means the club any harm either, but the fee the sellers want, and what would be required to pay GLS back are prohibitive. If Smisa agreed to the deal, I doubt they would get the required backing from the support once the numbers were out. It is a deal and fee too far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I dont think GLS means the club any harm either, but the fee the sellers want, and what would be required to pay GLS back are prohibitive. If Smisa agreed to the deal, I doubt they would get the required backing from the support once the numbers were out. It is a deal and fee too far! Possibly. Ultimately, the current BoD need to have a long hard look at how they have conducted themselves over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 The likelihood is that , the net worth of the Club has been gradually decreasing since Danny boy left . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'll ask another simple question, what's the numbers then? As LPM has stated "once the numbers are out" we will know, there has been no official statement on the amount required and quite frankly the silence is deafening. I can only assume there is a vast difference in what has been offered and what the sellers will accept otherwise we would have a deal and be actively seeking investment. All that tells me is the consortium (who have said they want out) are actually not all that eager to get out, this is based on pure guesswork on my part though, but i can think of no other reason why there has been no Yes/No/Maybe decision, apart from possibly some other deal or restructuring of the club which would give the consortium a better price for their shares or a source of income for them which makes it more viable holding on to the shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Yet he writes and I quote, "it is a deal and fee too far" So LPM, are you just making things up to bad mouth folk or do you know the numbers involved? Yet he writes and I quote, "it is a deal and fee too far" So LPM, are you just making things up to bad mouth folk or do you know the numbers involved? Nothing is made up. When/if Smisa go public with what the sellers are asking everyone will be able to decide if its fair, reasonsble and realistic given the sums required to run the club after the sale. And yes I heard several weeks ago what the sellers wanted, and you can conclude this is why as Buddiecat says there is no announcement, or update. The figures for a championship club not contesting promotion are fanciful. As I have said before let them sweat it out for another year when the parachute payments stop. Edited October 18, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Yes, I'm on your side. A big mouth who spouts regularly but craps it when push comes to shove he buggers off for a while then comes back with a new name. Predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Yes, I'm on your side. A big mouth who spouts regularly but craps it when push comes to shove he buggers off for a while then comes back with a new name. Predictable. Don't put yourself down sweetheart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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