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Latest Accounts To May 2015

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Basically the year gone off the park was as bad as it was on the park, and significantly worse than the year before!

A caveat or two to add.... Those accounts are for a full Premiership season, where you can see wages etc were significantly cut, but we still paid off TC and Tealzo.... Or is that hit still to come?

What State will the next set of accounts be in after a season of Murray Madness on declining Championship income???

Time for Smisa to consider if there is anyway a fan supported bid could sustain those losses, and the debt that would be owed to the sellers and Scott?

There isnt yet a larger club like ours in actual fan ownership.

Dundee fans chucked it for US investment

Ann Budge owns Hearts, and Jambo fans pay her for the privilege, and it recorded a significant loss last year!(they will never f**king learn)

Motherwell look less and less likely to ever cross the line!

I simply don't see how a fan supported bid as briefly outlined by Smisa/Scott can ever afford to run the club, manage the debt, and cover the shortfall?

Is there Anyone looking at that figures that can see it differently? Backed up with where the money is coming from

To add the loans £245k still need to be paid off too!

Edited by Lord Pityme

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As the old saying go's "you need to speculate to accumulate".... Our bod are doing neither... What they are doing is selling off the assets (our best players) and using that money to patch up holes & pay for mistakes..... What happens when, at the end of this season (when) we have no assets left to sell...... The only way is down, with no decent assets (players) to bring us (the business) back out its hole!!

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Right now (excluding directors loans) have zero as a float and budget to break even.

Any fan ownership bid would need to backing of some wealthy individuals or businesses willing to provide short term cash flow solutions until we accumulate some sort of "float".

The model of SMISA & GLS doesn't work IMO.

good luck with this.

i got a mountain of shit when i suggested it was good financial management to have a rainy day fund.

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As the old saying go's "you need to speculate to accumulate".... Our bod are doing neither... What they are doing is selling off the assets (our best players) and using that money to patch up holes & pay for mistakes..... What happens when, at the end of this season (when) we have no assets left to sell...... The only way is down, with no decent assets (players) to bring us (the business) back out its hole!!

The board have done this aplenty.

They've paid over inflated wages to certain players and managers . We even paid a transfer fee.

Unfortunately all the money was "speculated" on utter shite and we've paid a huge financial cost in paying off these costly mistakes.

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Right now (excluding directors loans) have zero as a float and budget to break even.

Any fan ownership bid would need to backing of some wealthy individuals or businesses willing to provide short term cash flow solutions until we accumulate some sort of "float".

The model of SMISA & GLS doesn't work IMO.

At Ebbsfleet, there was a constant need for extra cash and it usually involved either squeezing yet more good will from the members or a loan from

Phil. You can argue in our case that some of the loans did cover mistakes, I'd love to know how many plugged genuine gaps. We don't throw money at things like Ebbsfleet were doing, but do see more fluctuations in crowds and associated cash flow. I suppose the model could work for buying the club, but as with any other fan model we've seen it'll need everyone who joins to expect to contribute more. Either that or we cut our cloth and see where that takes us.

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Right now (excluding directors loans) have zero as a float and budget to break even.

Any fan ownership bid would need to backing of some wealthy individuals or businesses willing to provide short term cash flow solutions until we accumulate some sort of "float".

The model of SMISA & GLS doesn't work IMO.

Well it does, IF you give the loss making business it's correct value and not the kind of silly one being held out for by Douglas Street.

The clubs been more or less loss making for the entire period that the board has been in control of the club. From memory I think the biggest profit in one year was around £70,000 and the current losses are the worst shown throughout the entire period. Who the hell in their right mind would pay £1m+ for 51% of a business that never makes a profit.

Of course there are ways the club COULD turn a profit. Lowering the wage to turnover ratio would be the most obvious way. Part time football would certainly allow the club to generate it's own cash float.

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Thought I should also point out that Stewart Gilmour actually states in his statement that St Mirren made a cash profit. In has statement on page 3 he says that the club made a trading loss of £261k however this was after allowing £300k+ for depreciation.

And also of interest might be the KPI's as stated by the board. It looks to me like they failed in every single measure that they set. Yet IBOS thinks that no-one should question the boards management of the club. lol.giflol.giflol.giflol.gif

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Thought I should also point out that Stewart Gilmour actually states in his statement that St Mirren made a cash profit. In has statement on page 3 he says that the club made a trading loss of £261k however this was after allowing £300k+ for depreciation.

Aye, can someone expand on this point for the financial numpties like me?

On paper we are saying the stadium is worth 300k less than last season. This is only for the benefit of the accounts, the stadium is actually worth bugger all.

Cash In - Cash Out, we made a small profit? Does this include the loan from the board? I think it was mentioned that loan was paid back shortly after being taken. We were due our end of season prize for being relegated.

I don't have time to go through it all just now, has anyone noticed if we have been paid for McLean and McGinn yet?

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The fundamental problem with analysing company accounts (whether St Mirren's or any other limited company / plc) is that we are reviewing history when we should really be interested in the situation as at the present day. St Mirren's financial results for the year to May are based on the club's presence in the Premiership. Now that we are dumped into the Championship for the next 12 months and will be there (or worse) for another 12 months at least I fear that the club's "zero debt" status is likely to be blown out of the sea.

Worrying times ahead IMO.

Compounded by the BoD still not having grown the cahones to fire Ian Murray whose record in charge makes many of us hanker back to the glorious days of Tommy Craig's era.

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The fundamental problem with analysing company accounts (whether St Mirren's or any other limited company / plc) is that we are reviewing history when we should really be interested in the situation as at the present day. St Mirren's financial results for the year to May are based on the club's presence in the Premiership. Now that we are dumped into the Championship for the next 12 months and will be there (or worse) for another 12 months at least I fear that the club's "zero debt" status is likely to be blown out of the sea.

Worrying times ahead IMO.

Compounded by the BoD still not having grown the cahones to fire Ian Murray whose record in charge makes many of us hanker back to the glorious days of Tommy Craig's era.

the fundamental problem is that we are still spending way too much momey on players. money we can clearly not afford.

on top of that we have no cash reserve for a rainy day.

only after considering those sobering facts can we add reduced income, reduced crowds due to our form.

despite all of this we have fans screaming for us to spend even more money that we dont have sacking a manager who has barely warmed his seat.

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Thought I should also point out that Stewart Gilmour actually states in his statement that St Mirren made a cash profit. In has statement on page 3 he says that the club made a trading loss of £261k however this was after allowing £300k+ for depreciation.

And also of interest might be the KPI's as stated by the board. It looks to me like they failed in every single measure that they set. Yet IBOS thinks that no-one should question the boards management of the club. :lol:lol:lol:lol

we shoud. do two things.

1) question the board of our club.

2) ignore any posts from you

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Thought I should also point out that Stewart Gilmour actually states in his statement that St Mirren made a cash profit. In has statement on page 3 he says that the club made a trading loss of £261k however this was after allowing £300k+ for depreciation.

And also of interest might be the KPI's as stated by the board. It looks to me like they failed in every single measure that they set. Yet IBOS thinks that no-one should question the boards management of the club. :lol:lol:lol:lol

FFS - another clown who can't f#cking read. SG does NOT say the club made a cash profit, he says it effectively broke even on a cash basis. Yet another Dicko lie found out.

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Aye, can someone expand on this point for the financial numpties like me?

On paper we are saying the stadium is worth 300k less than last season. This is only for the benefit of the accounts, the stadium is actually worth bugger all.

Cash In - Cash Out, we made a small profit? Does this include the loan from the board? I think it was mentioned that loan was paid back shortly after being taken. We were due our end of season prize for being relegated.

I don't have time to go through it all just now, has anyone noticed if we have been paid for McLean and McGinn yet?

You've got it pretty much right. Think about it in terms of owning a car. You buy a brand new car and you drive it down the street. It's no longer worth what you paid for it. A year later the value has depreciated further. Now if this was an asset of your business this would count as a loss on your balance sheet each year and it can be written off against any tax liability that you have. At St Mirren this could be in terms of the value of the football stadium - football clubs were allowed by the UK Government after the Taylor Report to count the value of the expense of improvements done in their football stadium within their assets, this was to depreciate by a certain amount every year for the lifespan of the build which was given a value - IIRC 25 years. Other depreciating assets would be things like company cars, the value of club owned equipment etc.

Gilmour in his statement says that the club "broke even on a cash basis" after the effects of £300k+ of depreciation is factored into the £261k loss. That would tally with exactly how the board have run the club over the lifetime of their management of the business - basically to break even or to make a fairly nominal profit. So it's not quite the calamitous financial situation that some on this thread would have us believe.

A loan wouldn't count as profit as even though it is cash in, it increases the level of debt. What is more significant, as has been discussed by others, is that the loan was needed in the first place to cover cash flow problems. I seem to remember it being reported previously that one of the cash flow problems in recent years that many clubs faced had been caused by the SPFL delaying payments to member clubs. It could also be the case that the loan was used to pay off the contracts of Tommy Craig or of any number of the players that left the club under contract in January last year.

I'm sure the board will have been as prudent as usual and set the clubs budget this season to bring it in around break even again this year too. Much of St Mirren's biggest variable income - gate revenue - is paid in up front in June, July and August through season ticket holders. Other factors such as advertising revenue, sponsorship etc are paid up front for the season too.

In the future I'd say going part time would make a great deal of sense financially especially if the on field decline continues and the club continue to struggle to bring in additional revenue from non match day activities.

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Thought I should also point out that Stewart Gilmour actually states in his statement that St Mirren made a cash profit. In has statement on page 3 he says that the club made a trading loss of £261k however this was after allowing £300k+ for depreciation.

And also of interest might be the KPI's as stated by the board. It looks to me like they failed in every single measure that they set. Yet IBOS thinks that no-one should question the boards management of the club. lol.giflol.giflol.giflol.gif

Ohhh man it's got so bad I've got to agree with a Dickson comment.

KPI's statement sat out like a bloody big flashy honking beacon howling look at us, look, look we've managed to do the exact opposite of these.

Target: Potential for Promotion back to SPL

KPI: Play off spot contention

Achieved: Team performance more stinking than a club captain's big shite in a pumpkin

I'm surprised they had the brass neck to put them in, it reminded me of SEVCO fantasy announcements

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Wouldn't let GS run a bath. Ask him about his American investments.

You are showing your own ignorance there.

GS built up a very successful business in Scotland.

Part of being in business is a willingness to take risks. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I don't know anything about his investments in the States, but if he tried something new and failed then he is in very good company.

Can I ask what exactly you have achieved in business and when you will be coming forward with Lord LookAtMe to lead St Mirren back to the land of milk and honey?

Or do you just sit on the sidelines and snipe? Easier that way, isn't it?

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What is "Directors Current Accounts"? That's a rather unusual looking creditor with rather rounded values of £100k for 2014 and £245k for 2015.

Rather unusual? Rather rounded? You been looking in the mirror before you posted this stupid question.

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You've got it pretty much right. Think about it in terms of owning a car. You buy a brand new car and you drive it down the street. It's no longer worth what you paid for it. A year later the value has depreciated further. Now if this was an asset of your business this would count as a loss on your balance sheet each year and it can be written off against any tax liability that you have. At St Mirren this could be in terms of the value of the football stadium - football clubs were allowed by the UK Government after the Taylor Report to count the value of the expense of improvements done in their football stadium within their assets, this was to depreciate by a certain amount every year for the lifespan of the build which was given a value - IIRC 25 years. Other depreciating assets would be things like company cars, the value of club owned equipment etc.

Gilmour in his statement says that the club "broke even on a cash basis" after the effects of £300k+ of depreciation is factored into the £261k loss. That would tally with exactly how the board have run the club over the lifetime of their management of the business - basically to break even or to make a fairly nominal profit. So it's not quite the calamitous financial situation that some on this thread would have us believe.

A loan wouldn't count as profit as even though it is cash in, it increases the level of debt. What is more significant, as has been discussed by others, is that the loan was needed in the first place to cover cash flow problems. I seem to remember it being reported previously that one of the cash flow problems in recent years that many clubs faced had been caused by the SPFL delaying payments to member clubs. It could also be the case that the loan was used to pay off the contracts of Tommy Craig or of any number of the players that left the club under contract in January last year.

I'm sure the board will have been as prudent as usual and set the clubs budget this season to bring it in around break even again this year too. Much of St Mirren's biggest variable income - gate revenue - is paid in up front in June, July and August through season ticket holders. Other factors such as advertising revenue, sponsorship etc are paid up front for the season too.

In the future I'd say going part time would make a great deal of sense financially especially if the on field decline continues and the club continue to struggle to bring in additional revenue from non match day activities.

Most Clubs , including the majority in the Premiership should be Part Time.

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Most Clubs , including the majority in the Premiership should be Part Time.

Going part time isn't a panacea. From what I gather we are effectively a part time club anyway if we are to believe that turning up at Ralston for a couple of hours a week for a couple of hours equates to full time. Doesn't sound like it to me. Going part time, whatever that means, you save money how exactly? Making back room staff redundant? That has happened already to some extent. Renegotiating players contracts? That kind of thing goes on continually in any walk of life. I think the truth is that the current board is doing pretty well in keeping things tight but they have undone a lot of the good with the money 'wasted' in getting rid of managers and players earning pretty big money who just weren't performing. I firmly believe that the dividing line between an acceptable level of success or failure is pretty thin. If the managerial farce had been sorted out earlier last season and if we had got a rub of the green in just a couple more games we could still be in the Premiership. This season can still be salvaged but I wish I was confident that the right decisions will be made in the next week or two. Some will say we can't afford not to get rid of Murray. Do we have the cash to pay up his contract? It doesn't look like it from the accounts.

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Going part time isn't a panacea. From what I gather we are effectively a part time club anyway if we are to believe that turning up at Ralston for a couple of hours a week for a couple of hours equates to full time. Doesn't sound like it to me. Going part time, whatever that means, you save money how exactly? Making back room staff redundant? That has happened already to some extent. Renegotiating players contracts? That kind of thing goes on continually in any walk of life. I think the truth is that the current board is doing pretty well in keeping things tight but they have undone a lot of the good with the money 'wasted' in getting rid of managers and players earning pretty big money who just weren't performing. I firmly believe that the dividing line between an acceptable level of success or failure is pretty thin. If the managerial farce had been sorted out earlier last season and if we had got a rub of the green in just a couple more games we could still be in the Premiership. This season can still be salvaged but I wish I was confident that the right decisions will be made in the next week or two. Some will say we can't afford not to get rid of Murray. Do we have the cash to pay up his contract? It doesn't look like it from the accounts.

FFS Rick.

In our case, we should pay players bus fares only and that's being generous .

They should have jobs outside football

They do not deserve rewards for being shite at the beautiful game.

The majority of Clubs should be bus fares only.

Edited by shull

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FFS Rick.

In our case, we should pay players bus fares only and that's being generous .

They should have jobs outside football

They do not deserve rewards for being shite at the beautiful game.

The majority of Clubs should be bus fares only.

FFS Shull. Come on over here and watch Bangor YM. They don't even get bus fares. Scotland can support a full time professional league and St.Mirren could be part of it. We badly need an infusion of cash and I don't believe it has to be megabucks. Your way St.Mirren would slip down the leagues and into oblivion. You've said often enough in the past that you will support St.Mirren no matter what happens but most of us have higher hopes for our club rather than let them become another nonentity glorified junior team.

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