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13 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

Get him to run over. He does 10k in under 40 minutes so wouldn't take him long at all

He did it in 43 apparently (according to markovanhaddock) this morning. But he smells a bit after it. It would put me off my coffee

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3 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:
2 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

He did it in 43 apparently (according to markovanhaddock) this morning. But he smells a bit after it. It would put me off my coffee

He's slipping then. Yesterday he was a sub 40 minute athlete :P

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6 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

 

Wow, yes. Thanks for point that out :rolleyes:

I would have asked if you'd noticed that you are slipping too. I would have said that I can remember when your posts were witty insightful and full of clever observation and that these days you struggle to aspire be a poor mans Oaksoft. But guess what, I'd be lying. I can't remember a time when your posts were witty, insightful or clever. Your just dull. 

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6 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Wow, yes. Thanks for point that out :rolleyes:

I would have asked if you'd noticed that you are slipping too. I would have said that I can remember when your posts were witty insightful and full of clever observation and that these days you struggle to aspire be a poor mans Oaksoft. But guess what, I'd be lying. I can't remember a time when your posts were witty, insightful or clever. Your just dull. 

Pointing* so you can add poor man's Bluto to that.

But also I put a wee smiley to indicate I was noising you up and thought you might take it as banter and not try and alienate another poster on here. However as youve pointed out, my posts are dull and not witty, insightful or clever. I'd argue that this is still preferable to being a lying fantasist bastard but hey ho.

Edited by slapsalmon

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I was in on Saturday and it is evident a re-think is required as it really needs to be full capacity every home game with the amount of effort that was put into getting the place built. Agree £6 entry for non members can be very off putting, especially if your only having a couple of drinks or even a couple of soft drinks.
If possible, lower entry fee and drive business through social media if the members are not going to take it to capacity by the end of each week, encouraging non members that there is space available to come.

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On 21/08/2016 at 11:55 PM, Stuart Dickson said:

He did it in 43 apparently (according to markovanhaddock) this morning. But he smells a bit after it. It would put me off my coffee

Was his problem that the finish at the town centre wasn't as close as he thought it was :whistle

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17 minutes ago, civilsaint said:

Easy to say "we told you so". But it was always going to be easy given the absurdity of the initial set up.

I know they are separate organisations but this is a small example of why fan ownership is not the way forward.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with fans ownership of the club. The new board have just stepped in the door and have many issues to attend to, including the wheelchair access area in the mainstand, but I believe this will be on the agenda also as it is a money generating area of the stadium for the club.

If the stadium was in the middle of town, surrounded by other pubs, it would have been much easier to set up a clicking system to make sure that we control numbers if it was a non member entry, as people could go elsewhere nearby. 

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This has got absolutely nothing to do with fans ownership of the club. The new board have just stepped in the door and have many issues to attend to, including the wheelchair access area in the mainstand, but I believe this will be on the agenda also as it is a money generating area of the stadium for the club.

If the stadium was in the middle of town, surrounded by other pubs, it would have been much easier to set up a clicking system to make sure that we control numbers if it was a non member entry, as people could go elsewhere nearby. 



The new board promised fresh eyes fixing problems to make the club more efficient. They've been in control now for over a month and even the lowest hanging fruit hasn't been picked yet. I am beginning to wonder if the new board will ever do more than just look.

You would have thought the tannoy system would have been fixed by now. You'd have thought some attempts would be in place to get working together with local community groups. You'd have thought the basic customer service issues that fans call poor PR would be getting addressed.

The club badly needs action. It needs do'ers. It needs wins off the park as well as on it and it needs it soon to keep members on board. I know from experience that when you are talking about committee management that it's easy to be assigned a task that you don't do until the next meeting is due. That shouldn't been good enough.

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An entry fee of any more than £1 is going to be completely counter productive. I suspect free entry would ultimately generate more cash.

What's so difficult about first come first served?

If the we/club (in the widest sense) can't find a solution to finance a measly £35k (?) fit out without subscriptions then the game is already over.

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At the end of the day the members did pay up front to build the club, and the members are still paying a monthly fee whether they go or not.

Those members can't just be ignored even if most I've spoken to are, like me, very up for a change in policy to allow more fans in the door.

My own preference would be a package of changes that tries to retain the fixed membership money, and delivers some benefit to those members, whilst allowing more walk up supporters to attend.

Something like this;

  • Currently members are supposed to inform if they are not attending so the place can be given away. I would flip this round the other way and ask members to confirm they ARE attending by say the Thursday before a game. Some sort of online system to deal with this would be easy enough to do, members just login, tick a box and confirm they are coming. If they don't do that then their space is assumed available for someone else on the Saturday.
     
  • The club then announces on the Friday what the capacity is for "walk up" punters.
     
  • Walk up punters are charged £5 entry but this includes a token to exchange for their first drink at the bar for free. Similar to the way the drop in used to work in the Hospitality lounge curry nights. This ensures the bar is making revenue from every single person that attends.
     
  • All members get their first drink free on production of their membership card on matchday.


This way members get to retain their benefit, which is first dibs at entry every week. If they say they are coming then they can rack up whenever they like and don't need to queue.

Obviously giving away a free drink to members would have a cost, but this would be more than offset by a much larger turnout on most matchdays through the first come first served walk up punters. If the club hits capacity then it's one in/one out.

Everyone who attends pre-match gets a coloured band or a ticket for that day that then entitles them to free entry after the game.

 

There are I am sure some flaws there but it's better than the current setup in my opinion!

 

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39 minutes ago, div said:

At the end of the day the members did pay up front to build the club, and the members are still paying a monthly fee whether they go or not.

Those members can't just be ignored even if most I've spoken to are, like me, very up for a change in policy to allow more fans in the door.

My own preference would be a package of changes that tries to retain the fixed membership money, and delivers some benefit to those members, whilst allowing more walk up supporters to attend.

Something like this;

  • Currently members are supposed to inform if they are not attending so the place can be given away. I would flip this round the other way and ask members to confirm they ARE attending by say the Thursday before a game. Some sort of online system to deal with this would be easy enough to do, members just login, tick a box and confirm they are coming. If they don't do that then their space is assumed available for someone else on the Saturday.
     
  • The club then announces on the Friday what the capacity is for "walk up" punters.
     
  • Walk up punters are charged £5 entry but this includes a token to exchange for their first drink at the bar for free. Similar to the way the drop in used to work in the Hospitality lounge curry nights. This ensures the bar is making revenue from every single person that attends.
     
  • All members get their first drink free on production of their membership card on matchday.


This way members get to retain their benefit, which is first dibs at entry every week. If they say they are coming then they can rack up whenever they like and don't need to queue.

Obviously giving away a free drink to members would have a cost, but this would be more than offset by a much larger turnout on most matchdays through the first come first served walk up punters. If the club hits capacity then it's one in/one out.

Everyone who attends pre-match gets a coloured band or a ticket for that day that then entitles them to free entry after the game.

 

There are I am sure some flaws there but it's better than the current setup in my opinion!

 

So you want to open the club up to non-members with a charge which, in part, will be used to subsidize members like, erm, yourself. :lol

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1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

So you want to open the club up to non-members with a charge which, in part, will be used to subsidize members like, erm, yourself. :lol

Walk Up members who attend two games a month would pay £10 and get 2 free drinks.

Members who pay £10 a month whether they attend or not, pay £10 and get 2 free drinks.

I'm struggling to see how that's subsidising anyone!

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39 minutes ago, div said:

Walk Up members who attend two games a month would pay £10 and get 2 free drinks.

Members who pay £10 a month whether they attend or not, pay £10 and get 2 free drinks.

I'm struggling to see how that's subsidising anyone!

You said it, I've combined the quotes...............

Quote

Obviously giving away a free drink to members would have a cost, but this would be more than offset by a much larger turnout on most matchdays through the first come first served walk up punters (charged £5 entry).

The cost of giving a free drink to members to be offset by charging matchday customers a £5 entry fee, I don't see any other way to describe it other than a subsidy -.if you disagree then explain why it's not.

**************************

If the place is covering it's repayment costs under the present system, then there is no need to change anything. If you want a place that's packed on matchdays then it's got to be free entry, first come, first served. Tinkering with the setup while ensuring that the existing members still get a better deal isn't going to solve the problem.

Edited by Bud the Baker

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Might sound a bit daft here but could we not set up a turnstyle-type entrance system that clicks through and records the number of people coming through the doors. When it hits capacity then close the doors.

Don't imagine anyone would grumble paying £2/£3 on the door either.

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Lordy me..!

running a pub that makes money is a simple concept, yet the suggested resolutions to the situation everyone and his dog predicted when the current set up was mooted get more complex by the hour.

This should be sorted by the bar members and the club. Agree a turnaround plan that delivers a seven day a week available and in use facility. If you want the opinion of someone used to turning round failing retail outlets i can give you the quickest and most successful suggestion.

The members stop paying subscriptions, the founding members have got their names on the wall in recognition of their early contribution, so to make everyone feel a bit better at giving up their membership, fully paid up members at the date of changeover get 10% discount on meals on production of their card until the end of this season, founder members get 15% discount,

and the bar is then marketed as either a informal match by match hospitality package remainder of this season, food, match ticket, direct access to main stand seating. (Sell as a ST option next season and beyond).

sell any spare capacity match by match from next season.

or

No fee entry first come, first serve for former members or walk up punters on the day, hot reasonably priced food on sale before and after game. With founder/subscription members getting discount till end of season.

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3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

You said it, I've combined the quotes...............

The cost of giving a free drink to members to be offset by charging matchday customers a £5 entry fee, I don't see any other way to describe it other than a subsidy -.if you disagree then explain why it's not.

**************************

If the place is covering it's repayment costs under the present system, then there is no need to change anything. If you want a place that's packed on matchdays then it's got to be free entry, first come, first served. Tinkering with the setup while ensuring that the existing members still get a better deal isn't going to solve the problem.

Ok, I see what you mean.

My point was that members are currently paying £10 a month, just to gain entry.

Giving them a "free drink" on entry was more to equalise the merit of giving a drink to walk-up guests. That gesture would have a cost to the football club, but it would be mitigated by the place (hopefully) being much busier on matchdays.

 

There is still a £35K building cost to repay, and each of the 200+ members forked out a one off fee to help get the place built so, rightly or wrongly, I don't see the monthly fees being scrapped, at least for now,  and it becoming a free to enter facility for everyone.

Of course it would be busier and easier if it was just free to get in on a first come first served basis, but it would be naive to think all 250 punters who have invested in the facility so far should just be told to now fuck off after it being opened 5 times.

Has to be some sort of middle ground IMO.

 

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As was widely predicted the business model the bar was set up on failed. You can tinker with it, but it will still fail and draw out the pain and frustration over a longer period than is necessary.

its up to the members and the club to solve it. I dont want to see any more, of anyones good money thrown at it when it isnt going to succeed as is. The best decisions are not always the easiest, but they are by definition the best ones to make.

as i understand it (which could be wrong) the founder members only get their name on the wall, and the knowledge they made it happen for their contribution, and all subscribers pay in each month. So if a way could be agreed to drop the need to take their money each month, the names stay on the wall, but still allow them to access, (with a discount on product till the end of the season) the facility they created surely thats a decent compromise?

the club would then takeover and settle the outstanding debt from the increased turnover, and we would have a decent informal matchday hospitality facility, open seven days a week to the general public.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

As was widely predicted the business model the bar was set up on failed. You can tinker with it, but it will still fail and draw out the pain and frustration over a longer period than is necessary.

its up to the members and the club to solve it. I dont want to see any more, of anyones good money thrown at it when it isnt going to succeed as is. The best decisions are not always the easiest, but they are by definition the best ones to make.

as i understand it (which could be wrong) the founder members only get their name on the wall, and the knowledge they made it happen for their contribution, and all subscribers pay in each month. So if a way could be agreed to drop the need to take their money each month, the names stay on the wall, but still allow them to access, (with a discount on product till the end of the season) the facility they created surely thats a decent compromise?

the club would then takeover and settle the outstanding debt from the increased turnover, and we would have a decent informal matchday hospitality facility, open seven days a week to the general public.

:lol:

Aye, that'll work. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Lordy me..!

running a pub that makes money is a simple concept, yet the suggested resolutions to the situation everyone and his dog predicted when the current set up was mooted get more complex by the hour.

This should be sorted by the bar members and the club. Agree a turnaround plan that delivers a seven day a week available and in use facility. If you want the opinion of someone used to turning round failing retail outlets i can give you the quickest and most successful suggestion.

The members stop paying subscriptions, the founding members have got their names on the wall in recognition of their early contribution, so to make everyone feel a bit better at giving up their membership, fully paid up members at the date of changeover get 10% discount on meals on production of their card until the end of this season, founder members get 15% discount,

and the bar is then marketed as either a informal match by match hospitality package remainder of this season, food, match ticket, direct access to main stand seating. (Sell as a ST option next season and beyond).

sell any spare capacity match by match from next season.

or

No fee entry first come, first serve for former members or walk up punters on the day, hot reasonably priced food on sale before and after game. With founder/subscription members getting discount till end of season.

Okay Lord “Alan Sugar” Pityme. Can you answer some queries to your simple business plan.

At the moment the bar has 200 people contributing to the repayment of the fit out. I presume the club pick up the remainder of the debt for the fit out with immediate effect. Or do cunningly they wait until the debt is paid off before sneaking in your suggestions.

Moving forward who picks up the debt and pays the trade debtors should the bar run at a loss the club or the members?

If I have contributed £XX to help the club create a bar on the premise I have joined a private members bar I am not too sure I am going to be happy to have that taken away from me and replaced with 15% off a packet of salt and shake on the off chance I can access the very bar I paid for. I am sure there are some legal issues to be overcome on that point alone.

Next you want the “fans council” bar to be marketed by the club as an informal match hospitality package. Firstly if the club wanted the bar they should have paid for it. The club taking it and turning it in to an add-on to their already poorly attended hospitality package is a real kick in the teeth to the founding members.

Even though the bar is not being fully utilised by the founding 200 members you think it would be better as of next season to sell it on as an add on to season tickets. That is just the same problem with a different dress on.

Having read these suggestions and on another thread you suggesting that the club gives tickets worth £20 to people willing to work around the club for 20 hours then I don’t think you are the right person to be giving out business advice.  

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27 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

As was widely predicted the business model the bar was set up on failed. You can tinker with it, but it will still fail and draw out the pain and frustration over a longer period than is necessary.

its up to the members and the club to solve it. I dont want to see any more, of anyones good money thrown at it when it isnt going to succeed as is. The best decisions are not always the easiest, but they are by definition the best ones to make.

as i understand it (which could be wrong) the founder members only get their name on the wall, and the knowledge they made it happen for their contribution, and all subscribers pay in each month. So if a way could be agreed to drop the need to take their money each month, the names stay on the wall, but still allow them to access, (with a discount on product till the end of the season) the facility they created surely thats a decent compromise?

the club would then takeover and settle the outstanding debt from the increased turnover, and we would have a decent informal matchday hospitality facility, open seven days a week to the general public.

What was the business model and where has it failed. It has 200 people paying a monthly membership irrespective of whether they use the facilities or not. Thanks a big tick

How much money will the bar have been expected to make from 200 people turning up 18 times per year for a maximum of 2 hours before and 1 hour after a game.

I don't see the club getting rich from that business model. However with your wide spread experience of turning around fledgling businesses when the bar is wrestled from the fans council to be controlled by the SMISA crowd you can get your seat on the council and sort out the mess.

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13 minutes ago, Gruffalo said:

Okay Lord “Alan Sugar” Pityme. Can you answer some queries to your simple business plan.

 

At the moment the bar has 200 people contributing to the repayment of the fit out. I presume the club pick up the remainder of the debt for the fit out with immediate effect. Or do cunningly they wait until the debt is paid off before sneaking in your suggestions.

 

Moving forward who picks up the debt and pays the trade debtors should the bar run at a loss the club or the members?

 

If I have contributed £XX to help the club create a bar on the premise I have joined a private members bar I am not too sure I am going to be happy to have that taken away from me and replaced with 15% off a packet of salt and shake on the off chance I can access the very bar I paid for. I am sure there are some legal issues to be overcome on that point alone.

 

Next you want the “fans council” bar to be marketed by the club as an informal match hospitality package. Firstly if the club wanted the bar they should have paid for it. The club taking it and turning it in to an add-on to their already poorly attended hospitality package is a real kick in the teeth to the founding members.

 

Even though the bar is not being fully utilised by the founding 200 members you think it would be better as of next season to sell it on as an add on to season tickets. That is just the same problem with a different dress on.

 

Having read these suggestions and on another thread you suggesting that the club gives tickets worth £20 to people willing to work around the club for 20 hours then I don’t think you are the right person to be giving out business advice.  

 

As has been frequently mentioned on here apparently the FC have nowt to do with the bar, and it is run by Campbell K and staffed by club employees. So my suggestion is that people stop paying their subscriptions and the club pay off remaing fit out costs from the enhanced takings of a bar/coffee shop/business lounge  running at or near capacity seven days a week rather than twenty days a year. There is a poorly used asset there waiting to be sweated.

alternatively the members continue to pay their subs, find a way to make it work, and continue to be responsible for the debt.

to be run to take advantage of the asset it needs to be serving food, not salt n shake, it needs to be putting out tall skinny latte's, pannini's, cakes.... Just pop into Sapparito coffee shop of an evening its full of customers and clubs/groups having meetings and buying product. Whats happening in the 1877 club tonight? How much of its debt is it paying off this evening?

tell me what your plan is to make the club accessible to those unemployed or just plain skint who follow SMFC??? 

Please share your business advice that will make a poorly functioning bar, and empty stadium run better.

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30 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

As has been frequently mentioned on here apparently the FC have nowt to do with the bar, and it is run by Campbell K and staffed by club employees. So my suggestion is that people stop paying their subscriptions and the club pay off remaing fit out costs from the enhanced takings of a bar/coffee shop/business lounge  running at or near capacity seven days a week rather than twenty days a year. There is a poorly used asset there waiting to be sweated.

alternatively the members continue to pay their subs, find a way to make it work, and continue to be responsible for the debt.

to be run to take advantage of the asset it needs to be serving food, not salt n shake, it needs to be putting out tall skinny latte's, pannini's, cakes.... Just pop into Sapparito coffee shop of an evening its full of customers and clubs/groups having meetings and buying product. Whats happening in the 1877 club tonight? How much of its debt is it paying off this evening?

tell me what your plan is to make the club accessible to those unemployed or just plain skint who follow SMFC??? 

Please share your business advice that will make a poorly functioning bar, and empty stadium run better.

:lol::lol::lol:

Great target audience, we're on our way to becoming a rich club. 

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3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

:lol::lol::lol:

Great target audience, we're on our way to becoming a rich club. 

So you think we should turn our back on those in our community who may be temporarily skint? 

Thats an outstanding business idea for a club sited in one of the most deprived areas of the UK. Glad you did your homework on that one.

Edited by Lord Pityme

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