Scotland's Game Scottish Football Documentary

[DougJamie]

Scottish football was not dying. Sure it needed a revamp .

 

The OF were dying, particularly Gers, and then the Ego wars started. Gers had 15000 because they were pants, full of old man way past their sell by date.

 

In 1983 Dons won Cup Winners versus Real Madrid, 1985 Dundee Utd really did get to the Euro Semi , they did this with Scottish players and Scottish management. It was Gers and Tic in decline, and Fergie, McLean showed them how to play.

 

Souness wasn’t a manager, he was a front guy, Walter Smith was the manager. Souness  after teaming up with Murray had a blank cheque book, spending millions to buy a league. As demonstrated when Tic won league in 98 that Murray then spends 87m to win the Scottish title back. Yes I totally blame OF, for all that’s wrong with Scottish football and they have same mentality as most EPL sides but without the SKY money. Short term success at all costs, as demonstrated by Fergie, you need time

 

Watching the Gers players with their English, Russian and whatever singing the sash says it all. That alone repels me against what the OF stand for, they are bigots and knuckledusters and so are some of the fans.

 

Murray played with his companies money to satisfy his inflated ego. Gers were big simply because of the disgraceful English fans. But Gers and Tic with all their millions of borrowing still could not compete on the big stage, failing in virtually every Euro campaign, whilst also starving Scottish talent.  

 

Jordan Rhodes cant even get a game for Middleborough B team in the LC. Griffiths will start against Malta, but why oh why did McCormick not make squad? Will it work, probably not

 

Yes Mojo was class, but again, lets be honest , it was the fact that they nicked him off Tic. Its all Ego---- Simply the Best and all that.

 

Well they sure are paying for it now . The program will solely blame Murray again, remember the BBC and Gers are not exactly best friends just now.

 

what happened after Smith left in 97, that’s when the rot set in. My Dad was a Gers fan all his life, but he never liked Murray, saw him on a personnel mission rather than putting the club first, history shows he and others who thought that were spot on.

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

Scottish football was not dying. Sure it needed a revamp .

 

The OF were dying, particularly Gers, and then the Ego wars started. Gers had 15000 because they were pants, full of old man way past their sell by date.

 

In 1983 Dons won Cup Winners versus Real Madrid, 1985 Dundee Utd really did get to the Euro Semi , they did this with Scottish players and Scottish management. It was Gers and Tic in decline, and Fergie, McLean showed them how to play.

 

Souness wasn’t a manager, he was a front guy, Walter Smith was the manager. Souness  after teaming up with Murray had a blank cheque book, spending millions to buy a league. As demonstrated when Tic won league in 98 that Murray then spends 87m to win the Scottish title back. Yes I totally blame OF, for all that’s wrong with Scottish football and they have same mentality as most EPL sides but without the SKY money. Short term success at all costs, as demonstrated by Fergie, you need time

 

Watching the Gers players with their English, Russian and whatever singing the sash says it all. That alone repels me against what the OF stand for, they are bigots and knuckledusters and so are some of the fans.

 

Murray played with his companies money to satisfy his inflated ego. Gers were big simply because of the disgraceful English fans. But Gers and Tic with all their millions of borrowing still could not compete on the big stage, failing in virtually every Euro campaign, whilst also starving Scottish talent.  

 

Jordan Rhodes cant even get a game for Middleborough B team in the LC. Griffiths will start against Malta, but why oh why did McCormick not make squad? Will it work, probably not

 

Yes Mojo was class, but again, lets be honest , it was the fact that they nicked him off Tic. Its all Ego---- Simply the Best and all that.

 

Well they sure are paying for it now . The program will solely blame Murray again, remember the BBC and Gers are not exactly best friends just now.

 

what happened after Smith left in 97, that’s when the rot set in. My Dad was a Gers fan all his life, but he never liked Murray, saw him on a personnel mission rather than putting the club first, history shows he and others who thought that were spot on.

What a mixed up rant. 

Go for a lye down, dear oh dear oh dear. 

 

[DougJamie]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

What a mixed up rant. 

Go for a lye down, dear oh dear oh dear. 

 

Do you ever change your patter? Least I do rant rather than bitch like you do. Try having a viewpoint on subjects rather criticize others. Or just continue being a fanny don't bother me either way

[faraway saint]

58 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Do you ever change your patter? Least I do rant rather than bitch like you do. Try having a viewpoint on subjects rather criticize others. Or just continue being a fanny don't bother me either way

 It would seem it does..................along with any other subject you post on, ya moaning faced cnut. 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by faraway saint

[Stu]

3 hours ago, Edinbuddie said:

Do you think that St Mirren will be mentioned at all in this series? Surely, in our capacity of 'greatest club in the world' we deserve a mention. Although, in fairness, we've never been in Administration, we've never been liquidated, and we don't have a history of sectarianism. So, as a club, we're very much above the problems highlighted in last night's shambles of a programme, and probably future programmes.    

Yes, I think there's something in about the last all Scottish team to win the Scottish Cup. Probably just be 30 seconds of footage though.

[Stuart Dickson]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

Who was that David Duff guy who was involved at Hibs? The extent of the background info on him seeing to be Stuart Cosgrove saying he'd no idea who he was. Thanks for that.

Was interesting to hear the same section say Hearts and Hibs have city centre grounds 
 

 

He was a lawyer who bought his way into Hibs for £100000. There's not much more to say about him other than he brokered the deal that broke Hibs.

I should add Duff was also an adviser to a charity, EUS, which also went bust in 2010 owing £4m. 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

 

Raith Rovers were expected to vote for the SPL. The had 10000 seats, had just been relegated and IIRC were sitting top of the First Division. The shock vote was St Mirren. Short of 10000 seats, a long way off promotion it was questionable how St Mirren could ever benefit from it. Yet John Paton went in and voted for the SPL.

I remember Hugh Scott and Stewart Gilmour having a very heated debate on Radio Scotland over it and it being the only time I ever believed Hugh Scott was talking sense. Of course it soon became clear what had happened when Rangers paid St Mirren a wad of cash for their under 21s to play at Love Street.

[Lord Pityme]

On 25 August 2016 at 11:06 PM, tony soprano said:

TBF, the party tunes in the ibrox dressing room was news to me.
Roughly 30 years the beeb have had and not shown that footage?

At least Butcher was ashamed of his own behaviour.

Chick Young looked at home in that clip!

[shull]

NORMAN, THE TRUE ST MIRREN SUPPORTER

[shull]

NORTHSTBUDDIE

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

On 27/08/2016 at 2:04 PM, Stuart Dickson said:

 

Raith Rovers were expected to vote for the SPL. The had 10000 seats, had just been relegated and IIRC were sitting top of the First Division. The shock vote was St Mirren. Short of 10000 seats, a long way off promotion it was questionable how St Mirren could ever benefit from it. Yet John Paton went in and voted for the SPL.

I remember Hugh Scott and Stewart Gilmour having a very heated debate on Radio Scotland over it and it being the only time I ever believed Hugh Scott was talking sense. Of course it soon became clear what had happened when Rangers paid St Mirren a wad of cash for their under 21s to play at Love Street.

 

Round about the time the Saints On-line Guestbook had someone called Law Stud proclaiming himself to be a better supporter of the club than anyone else. So no complaints at the time of SMFC's behaviour, oddly enough.........

[Stuart Dickson]

35 minutes ago, Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes said:

Round about the time the Saints On-line Guestbook had someone called Law Stud proclaiming himself to be a better supporter of the club than anyone else. So no complaints at the time of SMFC's behaviour, oddly enough.........

Rubbish. 

1. I never claimed to be St Mirrens best supporter.

2. The Penalty Box covered the disgrace of the SPL vote in quite a bit of detail. I believe I also wrote articles for Rivals and for Football 365 at the time expressing my disgust in the strongest possible terms, particularly with the 10,000 minimum seat rule and the protection of TV rights money and sponsorship cash for the top teams only. Indeed it was also a reoccurring theme on Scottish Football Online and on Bizibee as well. I expressly remember calling out the absurd disgrace of forcing a side like Stranraer - then in the First Division - to put in 10000 seats when the town had a total population of less than 10,000. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[TopCat]

Can't help be a bit bitter over the industrial scale cheating that went on in Scottish football between 1998 and 2012.

During that time we were one of the few clubs to live within our means, and make no mistake about it, we suffered as a result. Not that it was the wrong thing to do of course, our directors should be awarded significant commendation for not giving into the tide of reckless wracking up of debt that almost everyone else was doing.

We had two really good chances to win the Scottish Cup in the last 10 years.

The first was in 05/06, when we faced the then third tier cheats Gretna in the quarter final. They beat us, beat our fellow second tier side Dundee in the semi and lost on penalties to Hearts in the final.

The second was in 11/12. This is the one that still gets me.

As I'm sure some of you will recall, we had agreed to sign Craig Beattie in the January. Hearts - who hadn't been paying their players - came in and offered him more money than we did. Naturally, he signed for them.

Hearts then draw us in the quarter finals. Beattie played against us in said quarter and - of course - scored. Hearts ended up going through, Beattie scored again in their semi final win against Celtic and Hearts beat Hibs 5-1 in the final. All the while, Hearts were paying a wage bill they couldn't afford and one which would end in them in admin. Didn't stop them offering more wages to players than us of course.

Could add Motherwell's cheating resulting in them having an extended period in the top half and European trips as a result in there too.

Makes you wonder. I know SGG and his board did the right thing by not getting us in debt, but would we have been better off now with an owner who had? The likes of Well, Dunfermline and Hearts all cheated. All of them are above us in the league now.

[Stuart Dickson]

24 minutes ago, TopCat said:

Can't help be a bit bitter over the industrial scale cheating that went on in Scottish football between 1998 and 2012.

During that time we were one of the few clubs to live within our means, and make no mistake about it, we suffered as a result. Not that it was the wrong thing to do of course, our directors should be awarded significant commendation for not giving into the tide of reckless wracking up of debt that almost everyone else was doing.

We had two really good chances to win the Scottish Cup in the last 10 years.

The first was in 05/06, when we faced the then third tier cheats Gretna in the quarter final. They beat us, beat our fellow second tier side Dundee in the semi and lost on penalties to Hearts in the final.

The second was in 11/12. This is the one that still gets me.

As I'm sure some of you will recall, we had agreed to sign Craig Beattie in the January. Hearts - who hadn't been paying their players - came in and offered him more money than we did. Naturally, he signed for them.

Hearts then draw us in the quarter finals. Beattie played against us in said quarter and - of course - scored. Hearts ended up going through, Beattie scored again in their semi final win against Celtic and Hearts beat Hibs 5-1 in the final. All the while, Hearts were paying a wage bill they couldn't afford and one which would end in them in admin. Didn't stop them offering more wages to players than us of course.

Could add Motherwell's cheating resulting in them having an extended period in the top half and European trips as a result in there too.

Makes you wonder. I know SGG and his board did the right thing by not getting us in debt, but would we have been better off now with an owner who had? The likes of Well, Dunfermline and Hearts all cheated. All of them are above us in the league now.
 

St Mirren didn't cheat? Signing young players on a £1 per week contract and then refusing to pay them might not be quite the same thing, but St Mirren also had players they didn't pay. 

[TopCat]

St Mirren didn't cheat? Signing young players on a £1 per week contract and then refusing to pay them might not be quite the same thing, but St Mirren also had players they didn't pay. 

That's not even nearly comparable. Accommodating a youth player who wanted to continue to study isn't like signing players we couldn't afford.

So yes, we didn't cheat. Hence us avoiding the severe financial difficulties that have beset many clubs since the turn of the century. B

[Kendo]

4 hours ago, TopCat said:

 

 

That's not even nearly comparable. Accommodating a youth player who wanted to continue to study isn't like signing players we couldn't afford.

So yes, we didn't cheat. Hence us avoiding the severe financial difficulties that have beset many clubs since the turn of the century. B

 

 

Prior to SGG becoming owner we had signed the likes of Steve Archibold and Victor Munoz, ex captain of Spain along with others. We were one of the first to go down the living outside our means route. It nearly broke us until SGG and his team came in and turned us around.

We shouldn't be throwing stones we were as guilty as anyone.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Kendo

[windae cleaner]

23 minutes ago, Kendo said:

Prior to SGG becoming owner we had signed the likes of Steve Archibold and Victor Munoz, ex captain of Spain along with others. We were one of the first to go down the living outside our means route. It nearly broke us until SGG and his team came in and turned us around.

We shouldn't be throwing stones we were as guilty as anyone.

You're right about living outside our means but we had money at that time

Wasn't paid by the never never like these other teams

Building that big stand for the away fans i may add done us

[Kendo]

42 minutes ago, windae cleaner said:

You're right about living outside our means but we had money at that time

Wasn't paid by the never never like these other teams

Building that big stand for the away fans i may add done us

At least the stand was an investment. Tom Hendries team wouldn't have been promoted without it. In fact we had to build another stand.

 

[Stuart Dickson]

That's not even nearly comparable. Accommodating a youth player who wanted to continue to study isn't like signing players we couldn't afford.

So yes, we didn't cheat. Hence us avoiding the severe financial difficulties that have beset many clubs since the turn of the century. B

Of course it's comparable. You talk about those cheats signing players and not paying their wages, but St Mirren did exactly the same thing with young Kieran and with others. Several ex players told me they also had a win bonus withdrawn after the start of the season in 2001-2. They were signed or resigned with one bonus in place and the Chairman removed that and replaced it with a bonus that only paid out if the club won the league after the season started.

There's all sorts that have gone on at St Mirren over recent years, most of it hushed up by confidentiality contracts that the club made ex employees sign as part of their compensation agreements. Like Kendo says be careful where you are throwing your stones, because when you are picking them up you might not like what you uncover

[Stuart Dickson]

You're right about living outside our means but we had money at that time

Wasn't paid by the never never like these other teams

Building that big stand for the away fans i may add done us

I'm pretty sure Roy Aitken was paid for with money the club didn't have extending the overdraft to a point where a tolerant bank really became uncomfortable.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

At least the stand was an investment. Tom Hendries team wouldn't have been promoted without it. In fact we had to build another stand.

 

Can you explain the bit about promotion?

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

That's not even nearly comparable. Accommodating a youth player who wanted to continue to study isn't like signing players we couldn't afford.

So yes, we didn't cheat. Hence us avoiding the severe financial difficulties that have beset many clubs since the turn of the century. B

We got into debt paying wages we could not afford and also built a stand. Stuart Gilmour found away out in our new stadium thanks to tesco. Had that not happend we would have collapsed also make no mistake.

[faraway saint]

15 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

We got into debt paying wages we could not afford and also built a stand. Stuart Gilmour found away out in our new stadium thanks to tesco. Had that not happend we would have collapsed also make no mistake.

You  have figures to back this up or are you just making it up? 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

You  have figures to back this up or are you just making it up? 

If I recall the clydesdale was looking to close us due to debt, even though we were making our payments. Amount was relatively small, 1.6 million?

Don't think our debt was due to players though, more about building stands and installing undersoil heating.

[Stuart Dickson]

If I recall the clydesdale was looking to close us due to debt, even though we were making our payments. Amount was relatively small, 1.6 million?

Don't think our debt was due to players though, more about building stands and installing undersoil heating.

Nah that never happened. The club never owed the bank more than a few hundred thousand. The big debt was to Barr Construction. The Clydesdale just wanted to overdraft brought under control.