Putin

[oaksoft]

12 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Nope. After St Petersburg my friend went on to teach at West Point before establishing a career as a high level executive coach. 

 Strange you should say Man of Mystery as my mother in law kept telling people I worked for MI5 and that's why I travelled so much. 

Fair enough.

From now on I shall call you Austin Powers.

[St.Ricky]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Fair enough.

From now on I shall call you Austin Powers.

Very fitting.  That and Grandpa Walton. 

[beyond our ken]

10 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Not so F Man.  Said to you before on here neither you nor others on here know who they are  talking to online or what their background is.  I have a number of Diplomatic Core contacts from a number of countries.  Came with my job.  Helped to make it interesting. 

Did any of them go on to work for Apple?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The backgrounds on both those photos are not the same. There are differences in the background fixtures and fittings.
Given that the camera would be stationary this should kill any conspiracy stone dead.

I thought it looked pretty much the same area from a slightly different angle?
If it's an adjacent passageway, it's extremely coincidental that the two of then walked through at exactly the same time.

Of course, Russian assassins flying into Gatwick direct from Moscow and back again is also highly coincidental and convenient for the narrative, along with the two of them not only travelling on the same flight but also walking through the airport together and wandering around Salisbury sticking deadly agents on door handles in broad daylight.

It's all extremely amateurish at best.

[St.Ricky]

2 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Did any of them go on to work for Apple?

Rotten!

(Corps) 

Edited September 6, 2018 by St.Ricky

[Bud the Baker]

26 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

27 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Did any of them go on to work for Apple?

Rotten!

(Corps) 

Apple Corps. - The Beatles got there first, turned out to be very lucrative for them.

[jaybee]

7 hours ago, oaksoft said:

11 hours ago, jaybee said:

I don't think I am, most certainly when you say ............. 'I see it as evidence that humans inherently lack intelligence'.   Whether that is referring to the millions killed through religious wars, or even (I hate to use the phrase) 'ordinary' wars,  but I am sure you get my drift.  doesn't really matter which, it isn't to do with intelligence it's to do with doctrine, jealousy, greed, envy, ego and a multitude of other things such as emotions, yes even love, hate sex and god knows what else has been the cause of such as we discuss.

But your phrase that  'an assertion might or can be deemed true simply by enough people believing it to be true.' is obvious guff

Witches are not relevant today

Conspiracy theories are usually mooted by those with a fertile imagination and don't usually cause too much trouble unless in the mind of someone such as Mr Trump from the USA and then perhaps it could grow more serious.

I think you have misunderstood me.

I am not saying I believe any of that. I am saying that this is the question put forward by Orwell. I added some examples of how that has manifested itself in humans including religion, witchhunts and Orwell is asking the question, I am just trying to explain what he meant.

We can obviously argue about why humans behave the way they do. I think it's a basic lack of intelligence and I include all those factors you list in my definition of intelligence.

The 2+2=5 thing was raised by Orwell but I think we are free to use that metaphor to describe other things which is what F Man did.

The idea that if enough people believe something it becomes true is bollox but it doesn't always matter because if the consequences of that mass belief are terrible (like the once commonly held belief that people can be witches) then we have an enormous f**king problem and the idea of what is true becomes irrelevant. You can't defeat "believers" by reasoning with them because they have invested their entire sense of self in that belief. You may as well ask a "believer" to cut their own throat as to ask them to change their belief. This is the danger of what Orwell calls Groupthink. It happens everwhere. You even see it on this forum although the PieandBovril political forum is much worse.

Finally, you say the witches thing is no longer relevant but that suggests we have somehow moved on intellectually. We clearly haven't. In the world, we still have widespread FGM, stoning of rape victims, persecution of homosexuality, the list is endless. All of these are widely recognised to be a problem of lack of education.

That response was a lot longer than I expected it would be. 

I wonder if you get this sort of sophisticated discussion on other football forums? 

Yes I did misunderstand; but I suppose that's what happens when you jump into a conversation without checking everything out, apologies if I seemed OTT.   I wholeheartedly agree with the vast majority of your post, except of course (otherwise it wouldn't be such a 'high quality' forum)  for a few salient points.  I would still argue the intelligence, issue as my belief would be that indoctrination overwhelms thought processes sometimes and 'group think' AKA Mr Hitler and a his rallies as just one example and I am sure there are many more. it would seem that since humans are a 'Herd animal' all one needs really is 'leader' and we follow along behind, again many examples of this type of personality/ mentality 'AKA this Forum DOH!.  So is it a lack of intelligence or is that intelligence overwhelmed by the Herd mentality? A debatable point methinks?

My other issue would be Witches and you're modern day  examples of a lack of  intellectual (shall we say improvement)  widespread FGM, stoning of rape victims, persecution of homosexuality, Horrific of course and as I personally (previous to my retirement) worked within the sector that dealt with such, (or elements of those) issues to be more precise, I have every appreciation of just why you would cite those as modern day equivalents.  And again I do not wish to get too far into a debate re the above because there is no right or wrong interpretation thereof,  all I would offer is that  FGM is usually attached to particular 'Faiths' as indeed is the stoning of rape victims and cutting off of hands etc, as for persecution of homosexuality, that debate could go on and on, so I shant even begin it.

An interesting and unexpected side of a Forum that in general does NOT lead one to envisage that something such as this might be being debated, my thoughts would lead me more to variations of the Inquisition inflicted upon (shall we just say) certain Forum members!  

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

I thought it looked pretty much the same area from a slightly different angle?
If it's an adjacent passageway, it's extremely coincidental that the two of then walked through at exactly the same time.

Of course, Russian assassins flying into Gatwick direct from Moscow and back again is also highly coincidental and convenient for the narrative, along with the two of them not only travelling on the same flight but also walking through the airport together and wandering around Salisbury sticking deadly agents on door handles in broad daylight.

It's all extremely amateurish at best.

Yes they do but when the clear insinuation from a conspiracy theorist is that these are the same background photo, it is sufficient to show that there are differences. I don't trust anything about these photos or the person who posted them so I won't comment on the timestamps.

What is interesting is your willingness to assume that this is some kind of anti-Russian smear. Any reason for that?

[Bud the Baker]

Just to make it clear I reckon on balance of probabilities the Russians were responsible for the poisonings, my opinion is that the release of the suspects identities last night was to move the reporting of the Brexit Committee down the order in the evenings TV news and today's papers.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Yes they do but when the clear insinuation from a conspiracy theorist is that these are the same background photo, it is sufficient to show that there are differences. I don't trust anything about these photos or the person who posted them so I won't comment on the timestamps.
What is interesting is your willingness to assume that this is some kind of anti-Russian smear. Any reason for that?

I'm not assuming it's an anti Russian smear.
I'm just (still) waiting on some evidence that the Russian state did this.
Everything so far has been circumstantial at best. A lot has simply been Russia bad propaganda.

Putin is still an evil c**t though as he was before Salisbury.

[DougJamie]

Thank fukkk ... Thought he was our new manager

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Thank fukkk ... Thought he was our new manager

There would be no dressing room dissenters.

[Wendy Saintss]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

What is interesting is your willingness to assume that this is some kind of anti-Russian smear. Any reason for that?

Cos he thought that it was a set up to deflect attention away from Brexit.  

[faraway saint]

3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Just to make it clear I reckon on balance of probabilities the Russians were responsible for the poisonings, my opinion is that the release of the suspects identities last night was to move the reporting of the Brexit Committee down the order in the evenings TV news and today's papers.

Just to make it clear I reckon on balance of probabilities the Russians were responsible for the poisonings, my opinion is that the release of the suspects identities last night was to move the reporting of the new St Mirren manager down the order in the evenings TV news and today's papers.

[Russian Saint]

I'm not assuming it's an anti Russian smear.
I'm just (still) waiting on some evidence that the Russian state did this.
Everything so far has been circumstantial at best. A lot has simply been Russia bad propaganda.

Putin is still an evil c**t though as he was before Salisbury.

I’d say he’s a bit behind the likes of our very own Thatcher, Blair and Cameron in the cun*ery department.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I’d say he’s a bit behind the likes of our very own Thatcher, Blair and Cameron in the cun*ery department.

Cameron probably the least cunty of those 3 but it's all subjective innit. I suppose putin not supporting and arming isis (who are utter cunts) is a positive. However, he did support assad who's also a c**t.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

New cctv released. Seems pretty conclusive it was putin.

[stlucifer]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:14 AM, oaksoft said:

Fair enough.

From now on I shall call you Austin Powers.

 

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, St.Ricky said:

Very fitting.  That and Grandpa Walton. 

Or Walter Mitty?

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

 

Or Walter Mitty?

As you wish Lucy. I have been very fortunate in the life I have led and fully appreciate that. That keeps me both positive and grounded.

[St.Ricky]

On Thursday, September 06, 2018 at 3:42 PM, TPAFKATS said:

On Thursday, September 06, 2018 at 2:46 PM, DougJamie said:

Thank fukkk ... Thought he was our new manager

There would be no dressing room dissenters.

None left alive or in the country anyway. Home games in our new Moscow stadium would be a bit of a hike and Shull definitely wouldn't like the prices. Moscow is a very expensive city.

[stlucifer]

3 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

As you wish Lucy. I have been very fortunate in the life I have led and fully appreciate that. That keeps me both positive and grounded.

Once again you try the "subtle abuse approach" while blaming others for doing so blatantly.  As in so many things, you fail miserably Mr Mitty.

[St.Ricky]

19 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Once again you try the "subtle abuse approach" while blaming others for doing so blatantly.  As in so many things, you fail miserably Mr Mitty.

You have a strange mind Lucy. "Subtle Abuse". No.  Straightforward.  I have been very fortunate in my life and am ever thankful for the opportunities to travel,  meet so many interesting places and earn a decent living at the same time.  I learned to enjoy different cultures. Doesn't mean it was easy.  However back to Putin.  What I wrote is simply true. If you find that hard to believe then I can't do anything about that,  nor would I wish to try.  By the way,  failure is not a word I like,  nor is mistake.  Each of those, if met with the right reactions too,  merely strengthens us to be able to face life's next challenge which,  for sure,  will be along shortly. Anyway.. As they say in South Africa.. Go well. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by St.Ricky

[stlucifer]

25 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

You have a strange mind Lucy. "Subtle Abuse". No.  Straightforward.  I have been very fortunate in my life and am ever thankful for the opportunities to travel,  meet so many interesting places and earn a decent living at the same time.  I learned to enjoy different cultures. Doesn't mean it was easy.  However back to Putin.  What I wrote is simply true. If you find that hard to believe then I can't do anything about that,  nor would I wish to try.  By the way,  failure is not a word I like,  nor is mistake.  Each of those, if met with the right reactions too,  merely strengthens us to be able to face life's next challenge which,  for sure,  will be along shortly. Anyway.. As they say in South Africa.. Go well. 

You are obviously a sad individual if you need to try to bait people into interacting with you. Continue in your little fantasy world if it makes you feel necessary. Give my regards to Putin and all those other dignitaries you meet. Then, when you wake up, please feel free to ignore me because that's what I'll be doing to you Walter.

Edited September 9, 2018 by stlucifer

[St.Ricky]

1 minute ago, stlucifer said:

You are obviously a sad individual if you need to try to bait people into interacting with you. Continue in our little fantasy world if it makes you feel necessary. Give my regards to Putin and all those other dignitaries you meet. Then, when you wake up, please feel free to ignore me because that's what I'll be doing to you Walter.

You are a seriously sad and misguided individual.  Bye

[faraway saint]

So, the 2 "civilian tourists" from Russia flew into London on the Friday, popped along to Salisbury for a spot of sightseeing then flew back out to Russia on the Sunday.

That happens all the time.