gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 5/29/2019 at 10:47 AM, Sweeper07 said: Nice twist - Oaky was quoting me and rewording what I said and I was answering his claim. Any decent human being would be outraged if a paedo or murderer killed a child - hence the reason we discipline and punish folk who commit crimes. But you don't think God should discipline or punish His children in order that they might learn that there are consequences to breaking laws or even learn to live better by avoiding breaking laws again . . . having your cake and eating it . . . God did not push Adam and Eve into eating the fruit - they chose - just as you and I have chose to do things that are not right - If we start from your there is no God perspective - whose fault is cancer - just chance mutations... aye that idea is really satisfying - so why are humans on the earth - for no rime or reason ? You are a twisted scum-bag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 5/29/2019 at 3:27 PM, Sweeper07 said: It is the bit that you think after the beginning of your sentence that is not true - so you think something which is a lie . . . It is ok you believe a lots of false stuff about God - it's your choice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) On 5/27/2019 at 1:24 PM, Slartibartfast said: I find it amusing that he is bending over backwards to make excuses for the failings of his imaginary friend, threatening people with his imaginary friend's hell and basically saying that it is OK for paedos to molest children because his imaginary friend will punish them later - and he still thinks he is one of the sensible folk. Anyway, off you go and reword some more scripture. I don't find it in the slightest amusing..what im reading is as twisted as ive ever read.. Edited June 1, 2019 by gstretchuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) On 5/28/2019 at 11:14 PM, oaksoft said: f**king hell that was pretty much the worst thing I have ever heard or read, here or in person. There can't be many of us on this forum who have not been personally affected by cancer or who don't know someone who has suffered because of it. It is staggering that anyone can hold, let alone post, a seriously held view like Sweeper's. Bad taste doesn't begin to cover it. There's not much I would ever call for a forum ban over but this is it for me. f**king hell. Me to...feel sick reading that.. Edited June 1, 2019 by gstretchuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: The Bible is a series of fables - old wives tales, passed down from generation to generation across Europe, North Africa and the middle east in the first half of the first Millennium. Evidently, as is the norm when passing stories down, bells and whistles get attached and somewhere along the line, simpler, earlier folk started believing these to be true. Several hundred years after the last events of these tales, someone committed these fables to writing and next thing you know, it's the Gospel. We even created a globally recognised dating system based on the events in the stories! Imagine if someone had written Harry Potter 1,500 year ago, folk would be running about with wee lighting scars dangling off a chain instead of a crucifix. It is as much a work of literary and tale-telling fiction as Harry Potter or LotR or the Gods of Greece, Rome, Norse Mythology etc. Anyone who actually believes that it all happened needs sat down and seriously spoken to. That the vast majority of the world population still believes in one form or another of this contradictory, muddled garbage is hilarious and scary in equal measure and those who live their life according to a series of old wives tales are no better than Flat Earthers. If you study theology and ancient Myths you will learn how wrong you are about the Bible . . .but you keep on believing what you want from this false perspective if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: 1 hour ago, gstretchuk said: I don't find it in the slightest amusing..what im reading is Sweeper is a twisted scumbag...please let me meet him so he can say this to my face... I actually feel sorry for people with that sort of mindset. They have been deluded into wasting their lives by an insidious organisation that, in reality, is only in it for money and power. Im on this forum for a laugh and wind-up but that guys thoughts are disgusting...i don't knock anybodys religious beliefs but his ideas are verging on brain-dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 5/27/2019 at 9:55 AM, Sweeper07 said: Yeah right it is only ALL religious folk who have closed minds - you are great at proving hypocrisy . . . So God gives humanity free will and he is supposed to step in whenever a human being decides to do something awful - how does free will work then....you want us to be robots and God prevents anything bad ?- the fact that we hate bad things is a clear sign that we are made in the image of God - He hates them too - especially when we do them . . . Cancer, disasters and the like are part of a broken creation - Adam and Eve chose not keep God's ONE command in the Garden of Eden, and when you break God's rules there is ALWAYS consequences just like there is for paedo's in this world and on the Day of Judgment - or do you not want God to punish things that are wrong? Best laugh ever is when I hear all the arguments that there is no God but when things are bad it must somehow be His fault . . . great logic The fool says in his heart - there is no God . . . So ur saying as a kid if you do domething wrong u will become victim of a peado or cancer? Sick minded fool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Slartibartfast said: 11 minutes ago, gstretchuk said: So ur saying as a kid if you do domething wrong u will become victim of a peado or cancer? Sick minded fool... No, he's saying that children get cancer or be abused because a dirt man and a stolen-rib woman ate a piece of fruit after the woman listened to a talking serpent. The child doesn't need to do anything wrong, it's preordained. Thanks for clearing that up...obviously thats correct...ill tell my brother-in-law who lost his kid sister to cancer when she was 6.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: How do you know that he hasn't studied them? The surest way to get someone to give up christianity is to get them to study the bible. Your bible gives rules on how to treat your slaves - it doesn't say don't own another human as property, it tells you that you can beat them as long as they don't die within a few days. Your bible says to remember the sabbath day and keep it holy - that would be Saturday, not Sunday, unless you are claiming that the RC church is above the bible. Are you? Now, will you answer at least one of the previous questions that I have asked? I won't be surprised if you don't. Your ignorance of Christianity is incredible for someone who claims to have read the Bible cover to cover - what happened in your upbringing that made you so angry with God? You have no concept of the Old and New Covenants and the Bible does not say having slaves is good. IT was actually a Christian called Wilberforce who fought against the politicians of his day that brought about the end of it in our nation... You don't obviously understand the change in the Sabbath Day from the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian one... But you just keep having a go at all you think is not right from your angry closed mind position - rather than actually get some balance and then form your views.... Why don't you answer me with the things that you pass over - like do you believe in the primordial soup? And how did the element get their, and where are all the missing links for the THEORY of MACRO EVOLUTION? (OVER LONG PERIODS OF TIME - not in LABS)? You think none of this theory requires incredible faith? Cause it is not repeatable in Laboratories ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 I'd like to thank Danny Baker..................................it's highlighted what a walloper Sweep is, although I knew that some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, djchapsticks said: The Bible is a series of fables - old wives tales, passed down from generation to generation across Europe, North Africa and the middle east in the first half of the first Millennium. Evidently, as is the norm when passing stories down, bells and whistles get attached and somewhere along the line, simpler, earlier folk started believing these to be true. Indeed Edited June 1, 2019 by Eric Arthur Blair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Bah, that hasn't embedded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstretchuk Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I'd like to thank Danny Baker..................................it's highlighted what a walloper Sweep is, although I knew that some time ago. Not even a walloper..just one sick individual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said: If you study theology and ancient Myths you will learn how wrong you are about the Bible . . .but you keep on believing what you want from this false perspective if you like. So please tell me the difference between the stories of biblical mythology and those of, lets say....Greek. In one mythology: An entity created a world in 7 days, created man and woman from his body parts (remember this is an ethereal being we're allegedly referring to so f**k knows what he's doing with a body in the first place) to live in a Garden forever and cast them out cos they ate a forbidden apple. You also have a gentleman who built a wooden ship, circumnavigated the planet collecting two of every animal (including the species that hadn't at the point and still haven't been discovered yet) and brought them back, then the world flooded and once subsiding, managed to distribute everything back from whence they came. And don't get me started on the fellow who managed to part an entire sea on order to let folk walk through it. Turning water into wine, feeding 5000 folk with a handful of scraps, walking on water, coming back from the dead. In the other mythology: Entity lives up on a mountain and harmonises, effectively manages the world from his standpoint at the top of Greece. Dishes out jobs to family and contemporaries including (but not limited to), one who holds the world on his shoulders to stop it tipping off into space, one who flies across the sky on a chariot pulling the sun along behind him and another who runs about erm, delivering the post. 3 headed dragons and dogs, women who can turn men to stone by looking at them, half-man, half-bull guardians. I get that it's a very, very selective frame of reference but my point is that one set of tales is taken as nothing more than totally fictitious and the other as gospel...can you honestly, objectively come back and say that one set of stories is more ridiculous than the other and that one of these sets of stories definitively happened whilst the other definitively didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: So please tell me the difference between the stories of biblical mythology and those of, lets say....Greek. In one mythology: An entity created a world in 7 days, created man and woman from his body parts (remember this is an ethereal being we're allegedly referring to so f**k knows what he's doing with a body in the first place) to live in a Garden forever and cast them out cos they ate a forbidden apple. You also have a gentleman who built a wooden ship, circumnavigated the planet collecting two of every animal (including the species that hadn't at the point and still haven't been discovered yet) and brought them back, then the world flooded and once subsiding, managed to distribute everything back from whence they came. And don't get me started on the fellow who managed to part an entire sea on order to let folk walk through it. Turning water into wine, feeding 5000 folk with a handful of scraps, walking on water, coming back from the dead. In the other mythology: Entity lives up on a mountain and harmonises, effectively manages the world from his standpoint at the top of Greece. Dishes out jobs to family and contemporaries including (but not limited to), one who holds the world on his shoulders to stop it tipping off into space, one who flies across the sky on a chariot pulling the sun along behind him and another who runs about erm, delivering the post. 3 headed dragons and dogs, women who can turn men to stone by looking at them, half-man, half-bull guardians. I get that it's a very, very selective frame of reference but my point is that one set of tales is taken as nothing more than totally fictitious and the other as gospel...can you honestly, objectively come back and say that one set of stories is more ridiculous than the other and that one of these sets of stories definitively happened whilst the other definitively didn't? Yip there are also things like flood narrative in a number of other civilisations belief's too. My point is that you can throw in an argument about a issue, but once you actually study it you find answers... If you genuinely want answers - go on sign up - Open Uni - do it in your own time . . . but if you don't know the details and arguments, it is not a great position to argue from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Yip there are also things like flood narrative in a number of other civilisations belief's too. My point is that you can throw in an argument about a issue, but once you actually study it you find answers... If you genuinely want answers - go on sign up - Open Uni - do it in your own time . . . but if you don't know the details and arguments, it is not a great position to argue from... I'd genuinely love answers - unfortunately, me going to University and doing a course on Theology won't change anything, given that not one person in recorded history has ever delivered any sort of proof of any of these happenings outwith fables. I do love though that you expect me doing an Open University course on Theology would turn me into a believer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: I'd genuinely love answers - unfortunately, me going to University and doing a course on Theology won't change anything, given that not one person in recorded history has ever delivered any sort of proof of any of these happenings outwith fables. I do love though that you expect me doing an Open University course on Theology would turn me into a believer! I never suggested study would turn you into a believer - just that you would find answers to many things and that at least you would have an understanding based on a more balanced view of things.. but hey ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: It's actually your warped interpretation of the bible that's incredible. I'm not angry at god. That would be like being angry at Lord Voldemort. Right, this should be good, explain how the "new covenant" differs from the old one - but only in ways that are not contradicted elsewhere in the new testament. Why would you need a new one anyway? Did your god get it wrong the first time? I never said that the bible said that keeping slaves was "good", stop trying to straw man my arguments. What I did say, or at least implied, was that it doesn't say that it is bad. Tell me where the bible is antislavery. Oh, I don't?? Really?? Well, this probably words it better than I ever could ...When Emperor Constantine I — a pagan sun-worshipper — came to power in A.D. 313, he legalized Christianity and made the first Sunday-keeping law. His infamous Sunday enforcement law of March 7, A.D. 321, reads as follows: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.” (Codex Justinianus 3.12.3, trans. Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York, 1902), 3:380, note 1.)The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” So, it was decreed by the RC church who, in turn, were following the lead of a pagan sun-worshiping Roman Emperor. Is there anywhere in the bible that says that the sabbath is to be changed from Saturday to Sunday? If not, you are then following the edicts of the RC church and putting them above the bible. Have you got a different explanation? I am not angry or closed minded. I don't follow any dogma dictated to me by a book or some guy in a pulpit. I do form my own views but you are right in a way, I don't have a balanced opinion on the subject, as I give much more weight to things that are backed by evidence than things that are just asserted without any evidence. The religious side has one, and only one, valid point that is backed by evidence, that being the claim that "you can't prove that a god doesn't exist". That's it, that's all you've got. Nothing else, nada, zilch. You never asked any questions you just made ridiculous assertions, but I'll humour you - once you explain the following three things: What you mean by "primordial soup". search Primordial soup is the hypothetical set of conditions present on the Earth around 4.2 to 4.0 billions of years ago What specific element you are talking about. All of them What "missing links" would be required to convince you. By definition, it is impossible to have found a missing link as it wouldn't be missing once it's found. If you are asking for a complete fossil record of every single mutation that occurred between the advent of life and modern humans then you are just an idiot and don't know how incredibly rare fossilisation is. Yeah they are so rare and you cannot find them but you sure can believe that they must exist - if that is what is required to support your THEORY based on imaginary evidence.... The fact that you understand that "macro evolution" (a term that I, personally, don't like - it's all just evolution) takes a loooooong time, makes me wonder how you expect it to be repeated in the here and now. Can you explain that? Lab experiments, in this context, are only to show that something is possible, they are not trying to replicate the creation of life and billions of years of evolution to get humans. I don't want to get back dragged in here - you keep firing in loads of different issues - if you really wanted answers you could type up your stuff and then start to explore the answers that are readily available if you dared to check. The Sabbath was the Sunday - under the Old Covenant (not a redundant one, but the first step in God's plan before his second covenant which makes it easier for all people to discover that He is real and can be encountered) Under the Old Covenant their were "types" which help prepare for the one God was pointing the world to see - if their so open their eyes, hearts and minds... The early Christians retained the Sunday Sabbath as it would have been seen by Jews as extremely blasphemous to have moved it and under Roman Law, they permitted Judaism to keep the Sabbath. SO it avoided serious conflict. Christianity became an illegal religion (Acts 8:1) which led to the diaspora - Christians scattered for their safety and to share the Good News with people who did not know that you can actually discover that God is real. Christians also wanted to separate themselves from the Roman Sun worship and the Judaists which took place on the Sundays... they wanted to be distinct (salt with flavour) (Nice quoting reference though - not that I have a problem with that, but you torn into saintsinthenextlifetimes for doing so) However there are records of earlier Christians worshipping on the first day of the week - the Sunday long before Catholicism ruled the change. The idea in the writings is that because of the New Covenant, through which Christ brought the Old Covenant Sabbath was superseded now through the resurrection of Jesus Christ - God's Saviour which permits us all to choose to be free from sin, Satan and the evils of broken worldliness. The Resurrection took place on the Sunday - the 1st day of the week rather than the 7th Day in the Old Covenant.. I quote you "I give much more weight to things that are backed by evidence than things that are just asserted without any evidence." It is good that you admit you don't have a balanced perspective - that is a starting point. But you seem to pick your evidence, some of which requires incredible faith to suit your current stance... All this stuff can be discovered without trying to have a pop at me or any Christian . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Breaking news * Danny Baker has just been reinstated by the BBC . [emoji54] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Callum Gilhooley said: Breaking news * Danny Baker has just been reinstated by the BBC . Wow, an act of God? Close this fecking car crash of a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: FFS, what a load of tripe. I'm replying to your many points. Attempting to Gish Gallop in text is pointless, it doesn't work, so you'd be better stopping it and concentrating on one point at a time. I want to know what YOU think, hence all the questions. I already have answers to all the questions I've asked you. Early christians had Saturday as the sabbath so that they could blend with Judaism, which was accepted by the Romans, and not get persecuted by the Pharisees. They only started moving to Sundays to differentiate themselves from Judaism during the Jewish rebellions. You seem to have taken the following quote, from a christian source, and reworded it to suit your lies. As I said before, the religious can be devious when trying to defend their faith.The Christians during the apostolic era, from about 35 to 100 A.D., kept Sabbath on the designated seventh day of the week. For the first 300 years of Christian history, when the Roman emperors regarded themselves as gods, Christianity became an “illegal religion,” and God’s people were scattered abroad (Acts 8:1). Judaism, however, was regarded at that time as “legal,” as long as they obeyed Roman laws. Thus, during the apostolic era, Christians found it convenient to let the Roman authorities think of them as Jews, which gained them legitimacy with the Roman government. However, when the Jews rebelled against Rome, the Romans put down their rebellion by destroying Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and again in A.D. 135. Obviously, the Roman government’s suppression of the Jews made it increasingly uncomfortable for Christians to be thought of as Jewish. At that time, Sunday was the rest day of the Roman Empire, whose religion was Mithraism, a form of sun worship. Since Sabbath observance is visible to others, some Christians in the early second century sought to distance themselves from Judaism by observing a different day, thus “blending in” to the society around them. So, according to you, it was harder for people who lived before the "new covenant" to find god? That doesn't seem fair. Did your god not consider this? "Under the Old Covenant their were "types" which help prepare for the one God was pointing the world to see - if their so open their eyes, hearts and minds... " - what the feck does that even mean? Seek God and you will find Him - Close your Mind and chances are you probably won't.The rest of your post is just preaching. I have not set out to preach but since you already have the answers - I am out . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 54 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Aye, because you don't have any. Amen tae that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Thanks to sweep this will go down as the worst thread in BAWA history. Disgusting stuff. ☹️ Fortunately, because I know quite a few, not all religious people are like that and would be pretty pissed off at sweep claming this stuff in their name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankin_panda Posted June 3, 2019 Report Share Posted June 3, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 8:13 PM, oaksoft said: Thanks to sweep this will go down as the worst thread in BAWA history. Disgusting stuff. ☹️ Fortunately, because I know quite a few, not all religious people are like that and would be pretty pissed off at sweep claming this stuff in their name. I agree. Cannot believe what I am reading on this thread..... Utterly disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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