More redundancies. Where are you SMISA?

[animal]

3 hours ago, Thorizaar said:

Details were given. Kibble applied for funding for a care unit to be built. It was claimed this would be on council owned land near the stadium and that this would be a conflict of interest as it was land the club could potentially develop. The Kibble director said it wasn't a conflict and other board members agreed. The funding application wasn't successful anyway.

 

 

 

Thanks for that info. I did not hear exactly what they were intending to build.  I need to sit at the front next time. All I heard was conflict of interest over some land with no mention of who was set to "gain" anything. It did not look like all the board agreed. Some suddenly seemed very interested in looking at the carpet.

 

[animal]

15 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

@animal @glen

did anyone ask the question as to why the club have been refused a UEFA licence?

It would seem odd to be gambling the future of the club on potentially achieving a high league placing and not participating in European competition if we were to qualify. 

Unless that could actually be seen as a positive as many of these uefa early rounds invariably cost clubs a great deal of money to participate in. 

In a word NO.

[animal]

13 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

@animal

Thank you for your feedback. It would be great if SMISA could provide the membership with a review of the AGM.

I was a bit surprised that the membership were not asked for questions in advance of the AGM. 

Or perhaps I missed the email or website request. If so apologies.

I saw the new chair of SMISA but at the far end of the room from me. I think at one point he indicated when asked he was taking notes. I did not receive any requests for questions prior to the meeting. I suspect the answer is that this was an AGM meeting for the club's direct shareholders not SMISA members. 

[FTOF]

19 minutes ago, animal said:

Thanks for that info. I did not hear exactly what they were intending to build. 

 

More likely "chose not to hear".

[Albanian Buddy]

1 hour ago, animal said:

Some suddenly seemed very interested in looking at the carpet.

 

Maybe they are planning on a carpet factory?

Surely no room for carpetbagging! 

[glen]

The AGM confirmed the rumours were correct, we produced a shocking loss of £1.25 million and more. 

The first 20 minutes was taken up by a slide presentation from John Needham as to why this was so bad. He said this would answer a lot of questions. Around 100 shareholders thought differently and a succession of questioners forced answers as board members stared at their feet. Covid was he said part of the problem, that and a failed transfer, our final league position being lower than budgeted for and a huge overspend at the academy. It was pointed out that the board should have budgeted properly and that they had failed in their duty having spent without planning. 

The chairman laid the blame for the academy on Tony Fitzpatrick, saying in football as in banking you have to “take a chance”.

A shareholder pointed out that the club was losing £4,000 per day. JN agreed but said ‘steps were being taken’. He then confirmed there was no financial director. So who was in charge of Tony was asked. The board looked at each other and the answer was ‘no one’. The questioner said surely at least one board member would have known and asked why Gordon Scott’s construction expertise was not used. ‘I wasn't asked’ said Gordon.

At times John Needham looked to be reading from notes from Mr Gillespie.

I felt sorry for the manager. There was hardly a football question but he raised a smile from the board when he said he would like another £1 million but this wasn't the place to ask. He said that due to the financial situation he could not bring players and that more would be leaving. There was a question about VAR too.

A shareholder with a list of questions said the board’s failure was mismanagement and was a resignation issue. JN bluffed through and said he hoped to be standing there next year with a better picture.

Former director Alan Wardrop spoke. To be fair he said he was partly responsible for the dire state of the finances having been on the board. He asked searching questions of Mark McMillan of Kibble who immediately looked very uncomfortable. Mr Wardrop went through his questions 1 by 1 which were he said based on conflict of interest.

Mr McMillan looked shaken saying loudly ‘we are 27% owners of St Mirren’ as if that mattered. Mr Wardrop explained the deal was for a project for Kibble partly funded by government close to the stadium.

Mr McMillan denied any conflict of interest but did not really explain why.

Mr McMillan said to Mr Wardrop that it was only his opinion or interpretation but Mr Wardrop replied that 'it's a matter of record and can be seen online, or I can share it now with the room if you like'.

People were becoming angry .Mr McMillan was asked more than once if this was done for the good of St Mirren, when he refused to answer a voice said, ‘I’ll take that as a no’. He then blurted out ‘Kibble and Renfrewshire Council’.

Mr Gillespie tried damage limitation and made a decent job of a half explanation but no one believed a word even when he said the project had been cancelled with no explanation.

A SMISA board member sat shaking his head. There is certainly more to this than meets the eye, it's a serious charge. 

SMISA was also criticised for not doing enough regarding the finances but the chairman assured shareholders SMISA receives regular monthly management accounts, which looked to surprise a SMISA board member. It was a car-crash performance from Kibble and the chairman and leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

[Albanian Buddy]

 

[doakie]

39 minutes ago, glen said:

The AGM confirmed the rumours were correct, we produced a shocking loss of £1.25 million and more. 

The first 20 minutes was taken up by a slide presentation from John Needham as to why this was so bad. He said this would answer a lot of questions. Around 100 shareholders thought differently and a succession of questioners forced answers as board members stared at their feet. Covid was he said part of the problem, that and a failed transfer, our final league position being lower than budgeted for and a huge overspend at the academy. It was pointed out that the board should have budgeted properly and that they had failed in their duty having spent without planning. 

The chairman laid the blame for the academy on Tony Fitzpatrick, saying in football as in banking you have to “take a chance”.

A shareholder pointed out that the club was losing £4,000 per day. JN agreed but said ‘steps were being taken’. He then confirmed there was no financial director. So who was in charge of Tony was asked. The board looked at each other and the answer was ‘no one’. The questioner said surely at least one board member would have known and asked why Gordon Scott’s construction expertise was not used. ‘I wasn't asked’ said Gordon.

At times John Needham looked to be reading from notes from Mr Gillespie.

I felt sorry for the manager. There was hardly a football question but he raised a smile from the board when he said he would like another £1 million but this wasn't the place to ask. He said that due to the financial situation he could not bring players and that more would be leaving. There was a question about VAR too.

A shareholder with a list of questions said the board’s failure was mismanagement and was a resignation issue. JN bluffed through and said he hoped to be standing there next year with a better picture.

Former director Alan Wardrop spoke. To be fair he said he was partly responsible for the dire state of the finances having been on the board. He asked searching questions of Mark McMillan of Kibble who immediately looked very uncomfortable. Mr Wardrop went through his questions 1 by 1 which were he said based on conflict of interest.

Mr McMillan looked shaken saying loudly ‘we are 27% owners of St Mirren’ as if that mattered. Mr Wardrop explained the deal was for a project for Kibble partly funded by government close to the stadium.

Mr McMillan denied any conflict of interest but did not really explain why.

Mr McMillan said to Mr Wardrop that it was only his opinion or interpretation but Mr Wardrop replied that 'it's a matter of record and can be seen online, or I can share it now with the room if you like'.

People were becoming angry .Mr McMillan was asked more than once if this was done for the good of St Mirren, when he refused to answer a voice said, ‘I’ll take that as a no’. He then blurted out ‘Kibble and Renfrewshire Council’.

Mr Gillespie tried damage limitation and made a decent job of a half explanation but no one believed a word even when he said the project had been cancelled with no explanation.

A SMISA board member sat shaking his head. There is certainly more to this than meets the eye, it's a serious charge. 

SMISA was also criticised for not doing enough regarding the finances but the chairman assured shareholders SMISA receives regular monthly management accounts, which looked to surprise a SMISA board member. It was a car-crash performance from Kibble and the chairman and leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

Glen has given an accurate summary of events. I would add, however that the Alan Wardrope / Mark McMillan clash was the equivalent of a hand grenade being thrown into the meeting. The former director , Alan Wardrope, was pretty convincing in his claim that Mark McMillan had deliberately made an application which, as Glen explained, was a conflict of interest. Mark McMillan, however, seemed very uncomfortable in his reply and resorted to using vague, hard to understand cliches. Indeed, one man went so far as to storm to the microphone and accuse McMillan of using tactics normally used by slippery Westminster politicians in an attempt to muddy the waters of the issue, while one woman sat and loudly repeated "Wow". The anger was so obvious that Jim Gillespie took the microphone from McMillan who had only been successful in antagonising the shareholders. There was a lot of anger and frustration in the room, particularly with McMillan's refusal to speak in plain English. His reputation was not enhanced on the evening and many shareholders hung around afterwards to share their thoughts with words/phrases such as "arrogant" and "economical with the truth" being bandied about.  Not a good evening for either Kibble or, in particular, Mark McMillan. A little humility would have been in order from this individual but that was not the general perception from the shareholders.

[Cookie Monster]

Former director Alan Wardrop spoke. To be fair he said he was partly responsible for the dire state of the finances having been on the board. He asked searching questions of Mark McMillan of Kibble who immediately looked very uncomfortable. Mr Wardrop went through his questions 1 by 1 which were he said based on conflict of interest.
Mr McMillan looked shaken saying loudly ‘we are 27% owners of St Mirren’ as if that mattered. Mr Wardrop explained the deal was for a project for Kibble partly funded by government close to the stadium.
Mr McMillan denied any conflict of interest but did not really explain why.
Mr McMillan said to Mr Wardrop that it was only his opinion or interpretation but Mr Wardrop replied that 'it's a matter of record and can be seen online, or I can share it now with the room if you like'.
People were becoming angry .Mr McMillan was asked more than once if this was done for the good of St Mirren, when he refused to answer a voice said, ‘I’ll take that as a no’. He then blurted out ‘Kibble and Renfrewshire Council’.
Mr Gillespie tried damage limitation and made a decent job of a half explanation but no one believed a word even when he said the project had been cancelled with no explanation.
A SMISA board member sat shaking his head. There is certainly more to this than meets the eye, it's a serious charge. 
SMISA was also criticised for not doing enough regarding the finances but the chairman assured shareholders SMISA receives regular monthly management accounts, which looked to surprise a SMISA board member. It was a car-crash performance from Kibble and the chairman and leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

So let me get this correct, the Kibble looked at purchasing land adjacent to the stadium that is owned by Renfrewshire Council. The purpose of this is to provide care facilities.

So SMFC don't own the land, SMFC don't provide care facilities, SMFC aren't the funders.

How is there a conflict of interest?

If we aren't purchasing it why shouldn't the Kibble?

Unless AW had planned to build hospitality boxes on it. [emoji848]

[Tonysaintee65]

48 minutes ago, glen said:

The AGM confirmed the rumours were correct, we produced a shocking loss of £1.25 million and more. 

The first 20 minutes was taken up by a slide presentation from John Needham as to why this was so bad. He said this would answer a lot of questions. Around 100 shareholders thought differently and a succession of questioners forced answers as board members stared at their feet. Covid was he said part of the problem, that and a failed transfer, our final league position being lower than budgeted for and a huge overspend at the academy. It was pointed out that the board should have budgeted properly and that they had failed in their duty having spent without planning. 

The chairman laid the blame for the academy on Tony Fitzpatrick, saying in football as in banking you have to “take a chance”.

A shareholder pointed out that the club was losing £4,000 per day. JN agreed but said ‘steps were being taken’. He then confirmed there was no financial director. So who was in charge of Tony was asked. The board looked at each other and the answer was ‘no one’. The questioner said surely at least one board member would have known and asked why Gordon Scott’s construction expertise was not used. ‘I wasn't asked’ said Gordon.

At times John Needham looked to be reading from notes from Mr Gillespie.

I felt sorry for the manager. There was hardly a football question but he raised a smile from the board when he said he would like another £1 million but this wasn't the place to ask. He said that due to the financial situation he could not bring players and that more would be leaving. There was a question about VAR too.

A shareholder with a list of questions said the board’s failure was mismanagement and was a resignation issue. JN bluffed through and said he hoped to be standing there next year with a better picture.

Former director Alan Wardrop spoke. To be fair he said he was partly responsible for the dire state of the finances having been on the board. He asked searching questions of Mark McMillan of Kibble who immediately looked very uncomfortable. Mr Wardrop went through his questions 1 by 1 which were he said based on conflict of interest.

Mr McMillan looked shaken saying loudly ‘we are 27% owners of St Mirren’ as if that mattered. Mr Wardrop explained the deal was for a project for Kibble partly funded by government close to the stadium.

Mr McMillan denied any conflict of interest but did not really explain why.

Mr McMillan said to Mr Wardrop that it was only his opinion or interpretation but Mr Wardrop replied that 'it's a matter of record and can be seen online, or I can share it now with the room if you like'.

People were becoming angry .Mr McMillan was asked more than once if this was done for the good of St Mirren, when he refused to answer a voice said, ‘I’ll take that as a no’. He then blurted out ‘Kibble and Renfrewshire Council’.

Mr Gillespie tried damage limitation and made a decent job of a half explanation but no one believed a word even when he said the project had been cancelled with no explanation.

A SMISA board member sat shaking his head. There is certainly more to this than meets the eye, it's a serious charge. 

SMISA was also criticised for not doing enough regarding the finances but the chairman assured shareholders SMISA receives regular monthly management accounts, which looked to surprise a SMISA board member. It was a car-crash performance from Kibble and the chairman and leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

ok, going to address a few issues here, bear with me.

Blame tony, sure, when kibble became a 'partner' in club ownership, they 'lent' a general manager, one David Jameson, still currently employed at kibble. Every decision tony took in the early days was in partnership with the general manager. At the time there was and for some,  there still is a belief that Kibble was, according to their blurb, bringing their world leading expertise in business management to the fore for the benefit of the club.

Tony believed this, possibly still does, hence renderwork shambles at ralston, renderwork shambles in the pie stalls and renderwork shambles in security that led to the match against St Johnstone being a lock out for all intense and purposes and the uncosted albatross  that is ralston mk11 another renderworks shambles. They can lay anything they want at Tony's door, but he was being ably supported by the general manager a business expert loaned to the club by world leading charity Kibble. Perhaps if tony had been aware that David Jameson had until recently been head receptionist at kibble, has never worked outside of kibble in any capacity and has never worked in a business, ever, he would have slightly more wary.

every single decision Tony took, was under advisement from a kibble employee, being paid by kibble and being directed by kibble, his employment was not broken at any point, he has returned to kibble, where he can be found at an admin desk most days.

mark mcmillan, renfrewshire council and kibble. 

not the first time those words have combined , its worth remembering that the above scenario of kibble seeking funding from renfrewshire council bears pointed similarities to Mr McMillans fall from grace as a Councillor when he sought funding to have kibble young people  clean the streets of paisley, having forgot to mention he was a paid consultant at the time. his fall from grace was only short lived as luckily he was appointed as a director of corporate affairs with kibble soon after.

St mirren fc will come through this, we always do, but, can people stop pretending now, that kibble have expertise in any field outside of charity work. they are a small regional charity who are hugely publicly funded to look after less than 100 young people at a cost of £30 million, they're ok at it, but thats all they are, not business men, not world leading experts, not even leaders in their very small field, the sooner the myth is busted the sooner we can get down to running a successful football club again.

 

 

 

[faraway saint]

14 minutes ago, Tonysaintee65 said:

ok, going to address a few issues here, bear with me.

Blame tony, sure, when kibble became a 'partner' in club ownership, they 'lent' a general manager, one David Jameson, still currently employed at kibble. Every decision tony took in the early days was in partnership with the general manager. At the time there was and for some,  there still is a belief that Kibble was, according to their blurb, bringing their world leading expertise in business management to the fore for the benefit of the club.

Tony believed this, possibly still does, hence renderwork shambles at ralston, renderwork shambles in the pie stalls and renderwork shambles in security that led to the match against St Johnstone being a lock out for all intense and purposes and the uncosted albatross  that is ralston mk11 another renderworks shambles. They can lay anything they want at Tony's door, but he was being ably supported by the general manager a business expert loaned to the club by world leading charity Kibble. Perhaps if tony had been aware that David Jameson had until recently been head receptionist at kibble, has never worked outside of kibble in any capacity and has never worked in a business, ever, he would have slightly more wary.

every single decision Tony took, was under advisement from a kibble employee, being paid by kibble and being directed by kibble, his employment was not broken at any point, he has returned to kibble, where he can be found at an admin desk most days.

mark mcmillan, renfrewshire council and kibble. 

not the first time those words have combined , its worth remembering that the above scenario of kibble seeking funding from renfrewshire council bears pointed similarities to Mr McMillans fall from grace as a Councillor when he sought funding to have kibble young people  clean the streets of paisley, having forgot to mention he was a paid consultant at the time. his fall from grace was only short lived as luckily he was appointed as a director of corporate affairs with kibble soon after.

St mirren fc will come through this, we always do, but, can people stop pretending now, that kibble have expertise in any field outside of charity work. they are a small regional charity who are hugely publicly funded to look after less than 100 young people at a cost of £30 million, they're ok at it, but thats all they are, not business men, not world leading experts, not even leaders in their very small field, the sooner the myth is busted the sooner we can get down to running a successful football club again.

 

 

 

One quick question, who, and why, appointed Tony into a position that most people would have seen him as unqualified and ill equipped to be a success? 

[Tonysaintee65]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

One quick question, who, and why, appointed Tony into a position that most people would have seen him as unqualified and ill equipped to be a success? 

St mirren legend ? i think at the time it was a solid appointment, a man who loves the club and is well thought of, acting under the direction of a board who at least had some business acumen? I couldn't honestly say, but, to lay any of this at his feet is disingenuous, Tony genuinely believed he was being supported by clever people with the well being of the club at heart.

 

[Fast Eddie]

This was not good viewing from the body of the hall.

In addition to the appalling financial results from clear mismanagement, the responses from Mr McMillan re the planning application and any conflict of interest were far from convincing. It would appear very much a lack of openness and transparency with shareholders, some Directors and key employees .

Not a good look from a St Mirren Director supposedly working in the best interests of St Mirren. 

 

[faraway saint]

Just now, Tonysaintee65 said:

St mirren legend ? i think at the time it was a solid appointment, a man who loves the club and is well thought of, acting under the direction of a board who at least had some business acumen? I couldn't honestly say, but, to lay any of this at his feet is disingenuous, Tony genuinely believed he was being supported by clever people with the well being of the club at heart.

 

Let's not get mixed up with a St Mirren legend and someone who's, cleary, ill equipped and equally as clearly required a babysitter?

I don't see laying any of this at his feet as "disingenuous", I see it as whoever appointed him, and Tony himself, unwilling to take responsibility. 

[Tonysaintee65]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Let's not get mixed up with a St Mirren legend and someone who's, cleary, ill equipped and equally as clearly required a babysitter?

I don't see laying any of this at his feet as "disingenuous", I see it as whoever appointed him, and Tony himself, unwilling to take responsibility. 

probably not, but i think standing down as CEO is probably mea culpa, but please don't miss out the fact that renderworks would never have been in the running for any work at st mirren without kibble introducing them, theres a bucket of blame to be shared out, kibble, Gordon Scott and tony share quite a bit of it.

 

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Tonysaintee65 said:

probably not, but i think standing down as CEO is probably mea culpa, but please don't miss out the fact that renderworks would never have been in the running for any work at st mirren without kibble introducing them, theres a bucket of blame to be shared out, kibble, Gordon Scott and tony share quite a bit of it.

 

I'm not keen on the "blame" game but ideally, until people take responsibility, we will struggle to learn and move on.

You mentioned earlier that St Mirren will come through this, I just hope that lessons are learned and the club don't repeat the obvious errors that have ben made in appointments and incompetent people. 

[Tonysaintee65]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I'm not keen on the "blame" game but ideally, until people take responsibility, we will struggle to learn and move on.

You mentioned earlier that St Mirren will come through this, I just hope that lessons are learned and the club don't repeat the obvious errors that have ben made in appointments and incompetent people. 

think the most important take is that the vast majority of fans have woken up to the fact that kibble are nowhere near as useful as they claimed to be and that they are being held to account at all times, thats very healthy'

 

[alanb]

11 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Let's not get mixed up with a St Mirren legend and someone who's, cleary, ill equipped and equally as clearly required a babysitter?

I don't see laying any of this at his feet as "disingenuous", I see it as whoever appointed him, and Tony himself, unwilling to take responsibility. 

Think TF appointment was more a PR stunt at the time of Brian Caldwell's departure. Should have been appointed a club ambassador then instead of more recently and a more business savvy CEO selected by due process.

Hopefully his Legacy charity is more successful than some of his previous off pitch ventures, more suited to his good nature than boardrooms and making tough decisions.

[alanb]

11 minutes ago, Tonysaintee65 said:

probably not, but i think standing down as CEO is probably mea culpa, but please don't miss out the fact that renderworks would never have been in the running for any work at st mirren without kibble introducing them, theres a bucket of blame to be shared out, kibble, Gordon Scott and tony share quite a bit of it.

 

Kibble entered as a vehicle for a director to get his money back quicker and rather conveniently still gets to wear a club blazer

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, alanb said:

Think TF appointment was more a PR stunt at the time of Brian Caldwell's departure. Should have been appointed a club ambassador then instead of more recently and a more business savvy CEO selected by due process.

Hopefully his Legacy charity is more successful than some of his previous off pitch ventures, more suited to his good nature than boardrooms and making tough decisions.

100%, utilise his history with the club and have nim in and around the club on matchdays. 

It was quite astounding he was put in that position, although he should have had the balls to see he wasn't the man for that level of responsibility.

[Tonysaintee65]

7 minutes ago, alanb said:

Kibble entered as a vehicle for a director to get his money back quicker and rather conveniently still gets to wear a club blazer

thats actually the truth of the matter, kibble didnt invest a penny in the club itself, but somehow got 2 seats on the board despite never so much as buying a season ticket!

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Tonysaintee65 said:

thats actually the truth of the matter, kibble didnt invest a penny in the club itself, but somehow got 2 seats on the board despite never so much as buying a season ticket!

If that's the criteria I should have a seat on the board. 😉

[Tonysaintee65]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

If that's the criteria I should have a seat on the board. 😉

£400k to the former chairman helps a bit though?

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, Tonysaintee65 said:

£400k to the former chairman helps a bit though?

Wait a minute, you never mentioned that. 

What else aren't you telling me? 

[KL Saint]

It would appear that conflict of interest  is part of Mr.McMillan’s MO!
 

https://paisleyindependent.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/labour-leader-reported-for-conflict-of-interests/