Utility bills

[W6er]

2 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

Is that because many private sector companies abhor trade unions and actively discourage workers from joining?

Possibly. I couldn't tell you as I don't know much about trade unions. I am a member of one, but never vote in the elections and have always voted in favour of strike action because I enjoy an additional day off work! 😆  

When people attribute a motive to another person or organisation without proof, it is speculation. I understood Thatcher's motivation to de-nationalise was that private firms were more efficient (i.e. more ruthless) and that workers at British Leyland wouldn't be able to turn up with sleeping bags. I'm sure corrupt dealings occurred, indeed I would be surprised if they didn't, given the very low opinion I have of politicians. 

Personally, I'm in favour of re-nationalising key industries and approve of the Scot Gov's acquisition of ScotRail. I wasn't about in the '70s, though, but I understood folk had to buy candles because of strike action and of course there was the Winter of Discontent, with rubbish not getting collected. 

[beyond our ken]

6 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Really? The NHS has a productivity problem, more doctors and more nurses than in 2019. It’s a money pit that consumes money at an alarming rate but has worst productivity figures than most comparative European health systems. 
I am mindful that this is not the politics section and this thread should probably be moved.

The NHS' biggest problem is the attitude of british people, we just don't look after ourselves properly and expect the state to cover the bill.  The ageing population also presents with diseases that are difficult to treat and the outcomes are less good than the same people might have experienced in their younger years, however a decent enough proportion of conditions are preventable, or avoidable, or better mitigated by diet, exercise and moderation

The NHS is also  somewhat abused by people who turn up looking for hospital attention for trivial diseases.  

[faraway saint]

14 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

The NHS' biggest problem is the attitude of british people, we just don't look after ourselves properly and expect the state to cover the bill.  The ageing population also presents with diseases that are difficult to treat and the outcomes are less good than the same people might have experienced in their younger years, however a decent enough proportion of conditions are preventable, or avoidable, or better mitigated by diet, exercise and moderation

The NHS is also  somewhat abused by people who turn up looking for hospital attention for trivial diseases.  

🤣🤣🤣

I'd suggest one of the biggest problems is the years of mismanagement, bad practices and uncontrolled spending.

As @ALBIONSAINTsays, a money pit that, as it stands, will never have enough money/equipment. 

A complete revamp is required but is unlikely to happen as the NHS is untouchable and can do no worng, which is far from the truth.

I should add usually, not always, the treatment/care is adequate, the management/supervision is not.

[ALBIONSAINT]

28 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

The NHS' biggest problem is the attitude of british people, we just don't look after ourselves properly and expect the state to cover the bill.  The ageing population also presents with diseases that are difficult to treat and the outcomes are less good than the same people might have experienced in their younger years, however a decent enough proportion of conditions are preventable, or avoidable, or better mitigated by diet, exercise and moderation

The NHS is also  somewhat abused by people who turn up looking for hospital attention for trivial diseases.  

Prevention is always better than cure. However the days of turning up with trivial ailments is well and truly over. You are triaged before you get to hospital and directed to NHS inform. 

[beyond our ken]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Prevention is always better than cure. However the days of turning up with trivial ailments is well and truly over. You are triaged before you get to hospital and directed to NHS inform. 

I was taken in for a heart problem in May,  A&E was full of skint knees, people who ran out of prescriptions, and people looking for sick notes for a bad back (it was an old firm weekend)

People who get triaged and turned away can  just go to A&E

[faraway saint]

29 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I was taken in for a heart problem in May,  A&E was full of skint knees, people who ran out of prescriptions, and people looking for sick notes for a bad back (it was an old firm weekend)

People who get triaged and turned away can  just go to A&E

Nice story, especially the Old Firm irrelevance.  🙄

[Albanian Buddy]

10 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Nice story, especially the Old Firm irrelevance.  🙄

Perhaps he meant to write “old and infirm” but the predictive text of the site took over?  👵 👴 

[Albanian Buddy]

4 hours ago, W6er said:

 I couldn't tell you as I don't know much about trade unions. I am a member of one, but never vote in the elections and have always voted in favour of strike action because I enjoy an additional day off work! 😆  

WTAF 😳 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, beyond our ken said:

I was taken in for a heart problem in May,  A&E was full of skint knees, people who ran out of prescriptions, and people looking for sick notes for a bad back (it was an old firm weekend)

People who get triaged and turned away can  just go to A&E

Wat year was that? 2011?

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Wat year was that? 2011?

Wow, never seen that coming......well, I really did.

#predictable 😴

[portmahomack saint]

13 hours ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/edf-energy-bills-france-uk-24750274

Just another example of the SNP's mismanagement of the nation, stick it on the list along with Global Warming and the extinction of the White Rhinoceros 

[antrin]

11 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Really? The NHS has a productivity problem, more doctors and more nurses than in 2019. It’s a money pit that consumes money at an alarming rate but has worst productivity figures than most comparative European health systems. 
I am mindful that this is not the politics section and this thread should probably be moved.

Again… more selectively right wing posts.

There is no examination in your presentations of the relationship between numbers of nurses and doctors in proportion to huge increase in the number of population that requires help.

more people need more staff and resources supplied.  Labour when it came in, in 1997, pumped a massive amount into NHS merely to try to fill the chasm the Tories had created THAT time by underfunding.

It’s going to need the same sort of help this time around, to…  £36 billion vanished into covid aid via Tory ( non) suppliers, in the main.

[ALBIONSAINT]

8 minutes ago, antrin said:

Again… more selectively right wing posts.

There is no examination in your presentations of the relationship between numbers of nurses and doctors in proportion to huge increase in the number of population that requires help.

more people need more staff and resources supplied.  Labour when it came in, in 1997, pumped a massive amount into NHS merely to try to fill the chasm the Tories had created THAT time by underfunding.

It’s going to need the same sort of help this time around, to…  £36 billion vanished into covid aid via Tory ( non) suppliers, in the main.

The institute for fiscal studies right wing? Think you have started the Christmas sherry early this year 😅

[antrin]

5 hours ago, W6er said:

 

When people attribute a motive to another person or organisation without proof, it is speculation. I understood Thatcher's motivation to de-nationalise was that private firms were more efficient (i.e. more ruthless) and that workers at British Leyland wouldn't be able to turn up with sleeping bags. I'm sure corrupt dealings occurred, indeed I would be surprised if they didn't, given the very low opinion I have of politicians. 

Personally, I'm in favour of re-nationalising key industries and approve of the Scot Gov's acquisition of ScotRail. I wasn't about in the '70s, though, but I understood folk had to buy candles because of strike action and of course there was the Winter of Discontent, with rubbish not getting collected. 

So you distrust other people’s speculation, then….  Despite you not being around in the 70s, you expect us to accept your “understanding” of Thatcher’s motivation?

fuxake - that’s crackers!  😳

Just so you understand… (I was around in the 70s) people bought candles, read books by that light and did all they needed to do while power workers and refuse collectors exercised their right to withdraw labour in order to get a reasonable wage for that labour.

Despite what the Mail and Express tell you, mostly it’s the employers and government who create carnage on the Industrial Relations front, not the workers.  The workers need to be VERY f**ked up by those in power, to choose to lose days of wages.

[antrin]

11 hours ago, W6er said:

Why would you assume anything? That's rather presumptuous.

I thought it was common knowledge that public sector workers are more likely to strike than private sector workers:

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/news/article/publicly-funded-industries-account-for-96-of-strike-days-says-report

 

 

1.  It's not presumptuous - it’s a rational  deduction from your posts.

2.  And you post about “common knowledge that public sector workers are more likely to strike than private sector workers”, without addressing the reasons why that sector is striking!

They’re striking due to the government choosing to refuse to provide sufficient wages, staff, training and other resources for the experts to do their jobs.

For me, it has always been common knowledge that Tory Governments will squeeze the public sector as it’s the easiest way to balance their budgets, which helps them say they are the party of low taxation.  (despite this current lot having the nippiest taxes since WW2!) 

 

[W6er]

10 minutes ago, antrin said:

So you distrust other people’s speculation, then….  Despite you not being around in the 70s, you expect us to accept your “understanding” of Thatcher’s motivation?

fuxake - that’s crackers!  😳

Just so you understand… (I was around in the 70s) people bought candles, read books by that light and did all they needed to do while power workers and refuse collectors exercised their right to withdraw labour in order to get a reasonable wage for that labour.

Despite what the Mail and Express tell you, mostly it’s the employers and government who create carnage on the Industrial Relations front, not the workers.  The workers need to be VERY f**ked up by those in power, to choose to lose days of wages.

I don't read The Mail or The Express, as their sites take too long to load. I haven't bought a physical newspaper, bar for the occasional train journey, for around ten years!

My "understanding" of the industrial action in the 1970s comes from books, documentaries and my university education. 

1 minute ago, antrin said:

1.  It's not presumptuous - it’s a rational  deduction from your posts.

2.  And you post about “common knowledge that public sector workers are more likely to strike than private sector workers”, without addressing the reasons why that sector is striking!

They’re striking due to the government choosing to refuse to provide sufficient wages, staff, training and other resources for the experts to do their jobs.

For me, it has always been common knowledge that Tory Governments will squeeze the public sector as it’s the easiest way to balance their budgets, which helps them say they are the party of low taxation.  (despite this current lot having the nippiest taxes since WW2!) 

 

1. Assuming I'm a crypto-Tory on account of me offering an alternative motive for de-nationalisation, is presumptuous. Either that, or a strategy employed to try to besmirch me as a Thatcherite. Your claim that the Thatcher government's motivation for privatisation was so that Tories could cash in on selling off assets to their cronies is highly subjective. Whilst their may be some truth in it, it is a latent 'benefit' and the reality is Thatcher believed in privatisation for a number of reasons, one of the key ones being she believed private enterprises would be more efficient.

2. Some strike action is reasonable, but the idea that all strike action is reasonable and driven by legitimate concerns is not something I would agree with.  

[Albanian Buddy]

13 hours ago, W6er said:

Possibly. I couldn't tell you as I don't know much about trade unions. I am a member of one, but never vote in the elections and have always voted in favour of strike action because I enjoy an additional day off work! 😆  

 

6 hours ago, W6er said:

2. Some strike action is reasonable, but the idea that all strike action is reasonable and driven by legitimate concerns is not something I would agree with.  

 

6 hours ago, W6er said:

My "understanding" of the industrial action in the 1970s comes from books, documentaries and my university education. 

Jeezo. Are you just trolling? 

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, Albanian Buddy said:

 

 

Jeezo. Are you just trolling? 

 

 

[faraway saint]

It seems privatisation isn't all bad.

https://hbr.org/1992/01/british-privatization-taking-capitalism-to-the-people

[ianmac]

I have never really understood why a public company, run by the right people in the right way could not be run at a profit for the country rather than shareholders.

EDF seem to be able to do it for the French government.

 

[Slarti]

15 minutes ago, ianmac said:

I have never really understood why a public company, run by the right people in the right way could not be run at a profit for the country rather than shareholders.

EDF seem to be able to do it for the French government.

 

They were the main issues.  Politicians, who knew nothing about the industries, were essentially running them in the UK, instead of leaving it to the experts.

[W6er]

6 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

 

 

Jeezo. Are you just trolling? 

No.

If there is a ballot for strike action, then I have always voted for it. The strike days often seem to be Mondays, meaning I get a long weekend, and even if they're in the middle of the week, it's nice to get an extra day off and break up the week. 

So, I'm happy to endorse industrial action, even when I don't agree with the Union's justification for calling for it. So there's nothing contradictory in what I have stated. I am essentially voting for a day's unpaid holiday. I thought all you militant trade unionists would support this action, and I'm quite sure my union selects particular days to strike. The last one appears to have been a Friday.  

Unfortunately, I only recall there being around ten strike days in the last sixteen years.

I once voted for a man because his surname was Gunn, btw, which after an afternoon drinking session seemed funny (it isn't, I know). I tend not to take politics and industrial action very seriously. I think it's all a load of bollocks, actually. It doesn't mean I cannot question those that do.  

 

[antrin]

7 minutes ago, W6er said:

I tend not to take god and religion very seriously. I think it's all a load of bollocks, actually. It doesn't mean I cannot question those that do.  

 

I see what you did, there!  🤓👍

[faraway saint]

11 minutes ago, W6er said:

No.

If there is a ballot for strike action, then I have always voted for it. The strike days often seem to be Mondays, meaning I get a long weekend, and even if they're in the middle of the week, it's nice to get an extra day off and break up the week. 

Jesus christ. 

The battle that working people fought to have a voice and while there are strikes that seem more of an ego trip for union representatives your attitude is frankly......well, hard to find suitable words. 🤡

[ianmac]

28 minutes ago, Slarti said:

They were the main issues.  Politicians, who knew nothing about the industries, were essentially running them in the UK, instead of leaving it to the experts.

I am not suggesting that some incompetent politician runs them, but someone who knows what the are doing. Presumably the people who are running EDF know the energy market.