ds10 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Yes it is, the sale of the club should be concluded in the next few weeks and this move is the start of that process. Any idea of the timescale? Before the end of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktf Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Any idea of the timescale? Before the end of the season? Yip. The next few weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Wake me up when something of interest is said by the club. There are becoming experts at making statements which say...well...nothing. A taxi firm owner, just what the club needs, cheap taxis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) It isn't. That's partly why it is such a long and drawn out process. The lenders need to scrutinise the business plan to be confident that the loans can be repaid as they don't really have a legal means of recovering it if all goes tits up. Are you seriously telling me that someone is going to lend Mr. Atkinson a seven figure sum without security of some sort. Please let me know where I can get a deal like that. Sounds a bit too good to be true. Are you honestly saying that if your CIC goes 'tits up' you are sure that it will not effect St Mirren ? Edited March 28, 2011 by animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossTheBoss Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Are you seriously telling me that someone is going to lend Mr. Atkinson a seven figure sum without security of some sort. Please let me know where I can get a deal like that. Sounds a bit too good to be true. Are you honestly saying that if your CIC goes 'tits up' you are sure that it will not effect St Mirren ? If you go onto Dragon's Den, they'll all sit there and scrutinse your business plan before offering you money. If your business fails, the investor's don't get any money back, which is why they want to be as sure as they can be that it doesn't fail. Same idea. Sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray7 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Haven't been following this too much so can someone kindly post a short summary of what is going on? Cheers. Also, if a mod could pin it to the first page or something, I think that would help others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
band for life Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Not once during this process have I heard Tony’s name connected to the buy out and as he is so well known to so many supporters I’m sure that had he been involved from an early stage it would have got out somehow. It’s a truism that there are no secrets in football and there are certainly no secrets whatsoever in the village that is Paisley, so we must assume that Tony has been brought on board as a piece of PR. That’s all well and good, but the question is why? Is he going to be a Director of Football type? If not, then what is his role? Or is it just a sop to win the doubters over? People aren’t that daft, hero or no hero. I have said before that I’m open minded to the idea of these guys but there are still questions to be asked, the main one being “whats in it for you guys”? Closely followed by "wheres the money coming from"? Cynical? Perhaps, but the only way to make a small fortune in Scottish football is to start off with a large fortune and these guys are neither mega rich, nor to my knowledge are they St Mirren fans, so what’s the angle? Altruism? An attempt at raising their profile in order to support a wider business agenda? Hmmmmm……….. The good(!!?) thing is that our ground is virtually worthless as an asset as there would be very little chance of any builder wanting to pay that much to build houses, nor is it any good as a retail site as it is not zoned for anything other than football or industrial use, so in that sense maybe they just want to buy a football club and have fun (am I missing something?) while drawing a decent salary from it?? Maybe they are the real deal after all, and if they are, then I raise my black and white hat to them and wish them well. The CiC thing looks ok in practice, it has good and not so good points, the main (bad) one as far as I can see is that once we become one we can’t revert to a Ltd company, but then again, maybe that’s not so bad as it would deter asset strippers in the future. I can’t see anything like 300 people paying £10.00 a month though, and in any case that only raises £36k a year, and that’s not even 50% of a salary for a half decent player. I look forward to hearing more………….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 If you go onto Dragon's Den, they'll all sit there and scrutinse your business plan before offering you money. If your business fails, the investor's don't get any money back, which is why they want to be as sure as they can be that it doesn't fail. Same idea. Sort of. The Dragons Den is portrayed as them taking “ a punt”. What you don’t see is how many of those punts actually take place after the show. There is no way that those Dragons will take a risk. They are nothing more than “business angels” a kind of Business Loanshark.The Dragons Den people are on it for one reason and one reason only and that’s to raise their public profile. Would we have heard of any of them if it were not for the Dragons Den. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 So how does this CIC value those that hold the other %48 per cent of the shares which in effect become worthless , whilst at the same time those that own the other %52 seek to make a few bob on their shares. Would it not be fairer if the CIC were just be able to buy %52 of the club , and the other share holders own the other 48% ? For example the other %48 of shares could account for the Greenhill Road facility , which could leased to the CIC . This would provide a way back if the CIC doesn,t work , but would also mean that the majority of St Mirren shareholders haven,t been shat upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Not once during this process have I heard Tony’s name connected to the buy out and as he is so well known to so many supporters I’m sure that had he been involved from an early stage it would have got out somehow. It’s a truism that there are no secrets in football and there are certainly no secrets whatsoever in the village that is Paisley, so we must assume that Tony has been brought on board as a piece of PR. That’s all well and good, but the question is why? Is he going to be a Director of Football type? If not, then what is his role? Or is it just a sop to win the doubters over? People aren’t that daft, hero or no hero. Tony Fitzpatrick has been involved behind the scenes for a considerable time, and far from being 'rent-a-legend' brought in at the last minute to fool fans, he has had, and will have, an active role to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Tony Fitzpatrick has been involved behind the scenes for a considerable time, and far from being 'rent-a-legend' brought in at the last minute to fool fans, he has had, and will have, an active role to play. Got to agree with u here pozbaird................heard a long time ago that Tony was in the mix with this group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddieup Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 If you go onto Dragon's Den, they'll all sit there and scrutinse your business plan before offering you money. If your business fails, the investor's don't get any money back, which is why they want to be as sure as they can be that it doesn't fail. Same idea. Sort of. A struggling SPL club, dwindling fans, poor club PR....I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Got to agree with u here pozbaird................heard a long time ago that Tony was in the mix with this group. Yeah, there was something in the Herald the same day the two new guys came on the board saying Fitzy would be involved - think it may even be as the head of the new CIC. Doesn't mean he's not a rent a legend though, just not a last minute one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Are you seriously telling me that someone is going to lend Mr. Atkinson a seven figure sum without security of some sort. Please let me know where I can get a deal like that. Sounds a bit too good to be true. Are you honestly saying that if your CIC goes 'tits up' you are sure that it will not effect St Mirren ? After your performance over the last few weeks I doubt you would be trusted to put the ticket on for a lottery syndicate never mind formulate a business plan. Hopefully you might actually bother your arse to attend one of the meetings and shut the f"k up and listen to your betters asking intelligent questions rather than just spouting any old pish that comes into your head - that's Faraway Saint's job. Tony was at the club quite a lot during the first FITT club and was accompanied by RA, so I reckon he has been involved from a very early stage. The concern about the remaining 48% of the shareholding is another red herring. All the shares in the club would still exist. The CIC cannot just right off shares that they don't own. I am delighted that the process has moved on to the next stage. I recommend that everyone attends the meetings rather than just relying on third party information as most fans (like animal) are a bit thick and highly irrational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Not once during this process have I heard Tony’s name connected to the buy out and as he is so well known to so many supporters I’m sure that had he been involved from an early stage it would have got out somehow. It’s a truism that there are no secrets in football and there are certainly no secrets whatsoever in the village that is Paisley, so we must assume that Tony has been brought on board as a piece of PR. June 24th 2010 The Herald; ** Link ** June 25th 2010 Daily Record; ** Link ** 20th Augist 2010 Official Website; ** Link ** Although the first two stories weren't 100% accurate in terms of his role, it is clear that there have been rumours of his involvement for well over 6 months now. Tony is a legend who always has the best interests of the club at heart so his presence in the boardroom should offer some re-assurance. The two appointments signal a step change in the process and the main aim of the group involved is now going to be persuading ALL of the fans that this is a good thing for the club, and to persuade as many as possible to get involved as frankly it won't work without the fans and the community really buying in to it. Tony ticks all the boxes as someone who knows the club inside out, someone who the majority of the fans respect, someone who is hugely active with working with sport in the community and also someone who is a successful businessman. There has been some doubt expressed about "non-St.Mirren fans" buying the club, well here is someone who has been involved with the project right from the start and he is very much a Saints man. Hopefully Tony's enthusiasm and passion for the club will rub off on all those involved both now and in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyKGB Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm finding myself more disillusioned with the Club with every week that goes by.A few years ago I would have shat broken glass for the Club but not now I'm afraid. Sad to say it seems a common complaInt. I started going to the ice hockey this year. Sitting indoors with a beer. Good atmosphere. Good banter with other teams fans. NO OLD FIRM. Good entertainment. Competitive team. Went down to Nottingham on Saturday for my first away game and had a ball. Drinking with some of the Nottingham supporters all night. Seriously thinking of ditching my Saints season ticket for a Clan one next year. Seems far better value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The 48% who own the other shares in the club will still have the same value attached to those shares as they always have, that being what someone else was willing to pay for them. They will still entitle the holder to go to AGM's and EGM's and to receive a copy of the accounts and to vote on any matters that require shareholders approval. The difference will be that the CIC will own 52% so will ultimately have the controlling interest so if the CIC really wanted to push something through it could do so. That is no different than if the 52% of shares had been passed to a single individual, no different at all. Anyone who bought small blocks of St.Mirren shares as some sort of shrewd investment was badly advised, they are nothing more than a token of love and affection and a badge to wear to impress your mates down the pub. That won't change before or after the deal goes through or indeed if it falls through. Gordon Scott is the biggest shareholder outside of the current board, and the next biggest is one of the most prominent posters on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Sad to say it seems a common complaInt. I started going to the ice hockey this year. Sitting indoors with a beer. Good atmosphere. Good banter with other teams fans. NO OLD FIRM. Good entertainment. Competitive team. Went down to Nottingham on Saturday for my first away game and had a ball. Drinking with some of the Nottingham supporters all night. Seriously thinking of ditching my Saints season ticket for a Clan one next year. Seems far better value for money. Sounds good. I doubt travelling down South every other week is going to be good for the wallet however It makes me quite sad to see St.Mirren fans drifting away from the game, but I don't think this is anything to do with Saints per se, it just seems a lot of people are on a genuine downer about Scottish Football and it's difficult to disagree. I've not been to anything like the number of away games I used to attend either and I know plenty of buds who are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) It makes me quite sad to see St.Mirren fans drifting away from the game, but I don't think this is anything to do with Saints per se, it just seems a lot of people are on a genuine downer about Scottish Football and it's difficult to disagree. Would have to disagree with you there Div, I think it has a helluva' lot to do with Saints. Specifically being one of Britain's lowest scoring teams, the negative stuffy style, the 2010 League Cup Final, the appalling home record... Apologies for the off-topicness! Edited March 28, 2011 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Would have to disagree with you there Div, I think it has a helluva' lot to do with Saints. Specifically being one of Britain's lowest scoring teams, the negative stuffy style, the 2010 League Cup Final, the appalling home record... Apologies for the off-topicness! I'll go with Div mostly. I'm on the slide , no question. Its really the futility of the SPL ( tried and failed ) Ten looming again, that and the desperation that puts balance sheets above anything resembling constructive and appealing football matches. Scottish football is bankrupt by and large both financially and as an appealing and amusing pass time. I love St Mirren always will , but the oblivion that we are heading in generally with Scottish football sickens me and does not require the assist of my participation for much longer. In all seriousness my kids are switching to rugby and cricket. The attention they receive, the coaching , the respect and the encouragement , the all round fun they have is way above and beyond the boredom that they glean from the SPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Football has become disconnected from its supporters and the community in general. Fans no longer feel a part of the club they would once have felched Gary Blues wife for. Clubs have prioritised TV money over the rank and file, and then there's been the ridiculous ascendency of the OF over the last 20 odd years. The CIC proposals put the club right back into the heart of not only the support but the community. We will be Scotland's first hippy club....ah cannae wait. It is time to stop fretting over the finances and start thinking about what we want our club to be and what it can be in the community. The "One Town, One Team" is a great start point as a mission statement. In the not too distant future we will have the ability to define what St Mirren stands for, what we want it to acheive and how we can position the club right at the heart of our community. That feeling of being disconnected from the club and football is about to be blown away. We will be the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyKGB Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Sounds good. I doubt travelling down South ....... X I still love the Saints. Just bored rigid with Scottish football. Complete tedium. It would help if we had a go. TBH this year has been the straw. So looked forward to the 'new beginning' we were promised. Free flowing, attacking football etc. If anything we are more negative this year. Haven't been to as many away games this year. There isn't a team in the league the Clan hasn't beaten this year and they won the Aladdin Cup in their first season. Will pick and choose my Saints games next year I think. Clan season ticket isn't much dearer and you get 28 games. Maybe I'll bottle it and renew. Oh and all the Clan fans are positive and get right behind the team. Yet to meet a moaning faced one yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Would have to disagree with you there Div, I think it has a helluva' lot to do with Saints. Specifically being one of Britain's lowest scoring teams, the negative stuffy style, the 2010 League Cup Final, the appalling home record... Apologies for the off-topicness! Sorry Paul, but if struggling to stay in the SPL and losing in Cup Finals is what is putting people off then the fault isn't with St.Mirren. On the footballing side this is the most successful spell for the club since it was relegated to the first division at the start of the 90's. Sure we are now in our 4th relegation battle of the last 5 seasons, but the fact remains that this IS success for us in 2011, we are a club with the second smallest support in the league and the second lowest annual turnover. We can hope for better, of course we can, but on an annual turnover of £3m we are kidding ourselves on if we demand it before we consider attending. Teams like Kilmarnock and Inverness have shown what a bit of luck and a good managerial appointment can do and we have to hope we can emulate that sometime soon but if we do I won't expect massive increases in crowds at the stadium. We didn't even get big crowds in the 80's when we were finishing mid table in the premier league, and getting to the latter stages of the cups, even winning one of them, and getting into Europe ! We couldn't even sell out the very first game EVER at the ground FFS ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Sorry Paul, but if struggling to stay in the SPL and losing in Cup Finals is what is putting people off then the fault isn't with St.Mirren. On the footballing side this is the most successful spell for the club since it was relegated to the first division at the start of the 90's. Sure we are now in our 4th relegation battle of the last 5 seasons, but the fact remains that this IS success for us in 2011, we are a club with the second smallest support in the league and the second lowest annual turnover. We can hope for better, of course we can, but on an annual turnover of £3m we are kidding ourselves on if we demand it before we consider attending. Teams like Kilmarnock and Inverness have shown what a bit of luck and a good managerial appointment can do and we have to hope we can emulate that sometime soon but if we do I won't expect massive increases in crowds at the stadium. We didn't even get big crowds in the 80's when we were finishing mid table in the premier league, and getting to the latter stages of the cups, even winning one of them, and getting into Europe ! We couldn't even sell out the very first game EVER at the ground FFS ! I'm pretty much in agreement with you Div, and indeed what Seaside Nipper said in his last post too. Scottish football as a whole doesn't do anything for me either. If it wasn't for my irrational emotional attachment to a senior side based in Paisley - I wouldn't cross the road to watch an SPL match. The best entertainment I've had at a sporting event by a country mile was last year's Broncos v 49ers NFL game at Wembley, and I had a superb trip down to Newcastle v Bolton in the EPL earlier this season. I absolutely see where the attraction in going to the ice hockey lies - and to experience a different sporting atmosphere and event. I would still strongly argue though that a lot of Saints fans have drifted off because of our own long-standing and seemingly never-ending failings. It sure doesn't help - the late, late goals, the awful home record.... I still rack up, but it's not every week any more. I've still got my ST, but I have missed the last two home games and didn't give it much thought. I'm no gloryhunter, I don't know any Saints fans who are. I certainly don't expect cup wins, or to be Top 6 even, or to win most weeks. However, I do expect us to last 90 minutes without SO many scunners, and to be able to beat 9 men. Unrealistic expectatons... nah. Anyway - the CIC deal is actually coming along at a good time to perk up my interest, if not in Scottish SPL fitba' - certainly to perk up my interest in my irrational Paisley-based senior soccer side. Doesn't matter if you are for or against the CIC plans - one thing that is undeniable is that it is new, untried, maybe a bit scary, but certainly different. I'm looking forward to the public meetings and to see how the main players behind it present it, and themselves, to the 'rank and file'. I think it's important to remember that it isn't simply about Richard Atkinson. There's the current BOD who should be answering questions about the last 10 months or so, and why THEY feel this is the road to go down. Depending on who is put on the panel at these public meetings that is. If Tony is there as 'Mr St Mirren' - legend or not, he should also be asked about his role, and why he's backing the bid so to speak. Could be a lively debate. Probably be more entertaining than watching us at home.... wonder if anyone will spoil it by asking a late injury-time question. Edited March 28, 2011 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 There isn't a team in the league the Clan hasn't beaten this year and they won the Aladdin Cup in their first season. Oh and all the Clan fans are positive and get right behind the team. Yet to meet a moaning faced one yet. Success is the reason why nobody is moaning I would suggest. The two go hand in hand. If St.Mirren were romping the first division at the moment the crowds would be up and nobody would be moaning. The team wouldn't be as successful as the current one though ! Supporting St.Mirren has never been an easy choice, and we've had a fair few kicks in the nuts in recent years which makes it even more painful. You know the drill, if you wanted to follow a team that wins in the SPL most weeks you would pop up the road and join the other tens of thousands of brain deads. We all want to see better football and more entertainment at St.Mirren Park, maybe league re-construction will help that as we will more likely become a yo-yo team going up and down between the two SPL divisions, and with the financial penalty of relegation not being so big we might have more of a go when we play "the big boys". I don't see it happening in the current setup though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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