Maboza Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Is it not as simple as the potential for reduced Sky TV revenue meaning that it will be more difficult for St.Mirren FC to continue to be run as a break-even business (without at least some internal investment even short-term for us to adjust financially) - the CiC isn't setup to put money into the football club until years of debts are paid off so this presents the CiC with a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 One thing's for sure anyway, it's a helluva time to be buying a football club in that league! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellV1 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 If the deal is dependant on TV cash, what happens if we're relegated at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The response to the statement is simple. #notonewco at all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 The response to the statement is simple. #notonewco at all costs. That's what it seems to me also and I want no part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) According to the PDE, the 10000 hours deal is being held back until the outcome of the newco vote is discovered as the takeover "hinges on Sky cash". I could be clutching at straws here, but could the fact that the takeover 'hinges on Sky cash' actually be the opposite of what we think that means? Ie, with reduced Sky cash, the club is effectively worth less to the existing owners, and therefore can/should be sold for less. Maybe, with not enough cash in its pocket for the original selling price (drawn up with a TV deal in mind), the rejection of Newco is the only way that St Mirren FC is affordable to 10000hrs. If you were buying any football club, the value would be directly affected by projected income for the next two years (or whatever). Likewise, if we'd gone down last season, the value would have decreased - yet I bet near enough the same number of fans would have signed up for this scheme. Like I said, probably clutching at straws... Edited June 22, 2012 by Magic Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Magic Monkey it seems right to me. A reduced sky deal means less income for the business which might mean a lesser selling price as consortiums share of business reduces. Anyway #notonewco and let's see what we can do to balance out any perceived losses. Get St Mirren branded tat back in the shop! Edited June 22, 2012 by chico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) STV's report on the shambles: http://local.stv.tv/...-over-spl-vote/ A potential buyout of St Mirren by the 10,000 Hours fans group has been put on hold as they await clarity on whether a newco Rangers will be allowed to play in the SPL. The group’s bid to claim a 52 per cent majority shareholding in the club was tabled earlier this week. However the offer is subject to ‘certain conditions relating to the commercial revenues on which the club currently relies to enable it to compete in the SPL’. On Monday, the SPL confirmed it would hold a meeting of all clubs early next month to decide on the application to transfer Rangers’ SPL member share to a new business entity, currently called Sevco 5088 Limited. At the meeting the clubs can decide if the deal can go ahead after Rangers FC plc failed to survive once it was plunged into administration with debts of up to £134m. A joint statement issued by the group and the club’s board read: “After long and productive talks it was agreed by both parties that it was prudent to wait for clarity surrounding the commercial revenues of the SPL before committing to any potential deal. “10000hours therefore encourage all fans who have engaged thus far to remain positive and continue to raise awareness and support for the fan buyout of the majority shareholding. “The selling consortium are pleased at the level of support the St Mirren fans have given to the 10000hours bid and acknowledge that a fans’ group that is now 1,000 members strong represents a very powerful voice within the football club. “As such the Board of the football club has agreed that such a wide supporter base provides a useful conduit to consult in relation to the newco debate which is currently the cause of much concern amongst the St Mirren support. “It has therefore invited 10000hours to gather opinion and comment from its members with regards to the newco proposals as they become clearer and to pass those thoughts formally onto the board.” Edited June 22, 2012 by St. Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 This whole thing - the SPL, Newco, Sky, St Mirren, 10,000hrs... it's a f**king mess. It's a circle jerk where nobody wants to touch each other so we're all standing round with f**king stoners, treading water and waiting for something to happen. Sky: won't say anything until the SPL has voted SPL: won't vote until it knows what Sky is doing 10,000Hrs: can't progress with purchase if it votes yes to Newco, cos fans will pull out; can't progress with purchase if it votes no, because there might not be enough tv cash Sky: won't say it'll back the SPL even without Rangers, as this could be perceived as being anti-Newco/Rangers As Sid says, it's a f**king shambles. I personally think we need a progressive business model for St Mirren that can function in Division One, with no Sky money and no SPL money. We should treat anything else as a bonus. That way, we have a base line for the future and the club is secure and in the hands of the fans. The SPL can shove it all up its sorry f**king pitiful arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 With the monthly subscriptions now £40k p.a. over what was needed to fund the BII loan I am struggling to see why the shortfall in corporate subscriptions should be such a big problem. I am leaning towards the Machiavellian view expressed by Vambo57 a few posts back that delaying the deal lets the consortium take the flak for voting for Newco and lets the CIC come in with a clean slate. Actually Bud, my cynicism was more to do with both 10khrs and the BOD not allowing fans any newco vote as we would not be voting from a business perspective. However, it SEEMS that I was wrong, as the latest joint statement is 'consulting' (I hope that means acting on) the 10khrs members opinion. Good on them. There is no rush in buying the Club. Lets see how the vote goes and how it may affect us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 According to the PDE, the 10000 hours deal is being held back until the outcome of the newco vote is discovered as the takeover "hinges on Sky cash". Now this, I find irksome. Surely those who have signed up for the CiC should have been advised of this before the PDE, FFS? 10000Hours really need to be extra cautious in respect of their communication given previous issues in this area. A brief email last night explaining the outcome of yesterday's meeting would have been a courtesy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Actually Bud, my cynicism was more to do with both 10khrs and the BOD not allowing fans any newco vote as we would not be voting from a business perspective. However, it SEEMS that I was wrong, as the latest joint statement is 'consulting' (I hope that means acting on) the 10khrs members opinion. Good on them. There is no rush in buying the Club. Lets see how the vote goes and how it may affect us. And what about the rest of the fans, should they not get a say in this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 And what about the rest of the fans, should they not get a say in this? How would you propose doing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Actually Bud, my cynicism was more to do with both 10khrs and the BOD not allowing fans any newco vote as we would not be voting from a business perspective. However, it SEEMS that I was wrong, as the latest joint statement is 'consulting' (I hope that means acting on) the 10khrs members opinion. Good on them. There is no rush in buying the Club. Lets see how the vote goes and how it may affect us. div, on 22 June 2012 - 12:15, said: Remember here that this is intended to deliver the opinion of the 10000Hours members to the board, it is not definining the decision the board will make which remains entirely their call to make. Vambo - Apologies if I read to much into your statement but I'll stand by my opinion that the consortium are putting themselves in a position where they can assume the role of the bad guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 How would you propose doing that? I put it on the other thread. These simply use the SMFC database. That should in theory have all the 10000 Hours members and the rest of us on it - basically any cnut that's ever bought a ticket to watch St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I personally think we need a progressive business model for St Mirren that can function in Division One, with no Sky money and no SPL money. We should treat anything else as a bonus. That way, we have a base line for the future and the club is secure and in the hands of the fans. The SPL can shove it all up its sorry f**king pitiful arse. All well and good, but how would you propose we do that right now, with six weeks to go before the season starts and 23 first team players all on SPL contracts to summer 2013 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 And what about the rest of the fans, should they not get a say in this? I'm sure they can if someone wants to organise it. Very surprised SMiSA haven't done anything to be honest. Running a vote on a website isn't what is required here, it's too easy to abuse and open to outside interference. Similarly this isn't a case of one question and one answer, there are various scenarios that need to be put to fans and their opinion based on those scenarios unfolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm sure they can if someone wants to organise it. Very surprised SMiSA haven't done anything to be honest. Running a vote on a website isn't what is required here, it's too easy to abuse and open to outside interference. Similarly this isn't a case of one question and one answer, there are various scenarios that need to be put to fans and their opinion based on those scenarios unfolding. That's Killie letting their fans decide now - they didn't have to pay for a vote, and it would seem that the club are organising it. How hard would it be for the club to email its supporters database and ask each fan for their response to a question by a set date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 All well and good, but how would you propose we do that right now, with six weeks to go before the season starts and 23 first team players all on SPL contracts to summer 2013 ? Why do you need a proposal to do that right now? I would suggest we wait. The timing sucks, but we can't hide from the fact that the Rangers fiasco is making the takeover bid far more perilous than it should be. Right now, there's a Cold War going on between the SPL, Sky, Newco and fans of Scottish football, and St Mirren and its takeover bid are caught right in the crossfire. I would suggest it's literally impossible to progress any takeover like this, and I fully support the delay that has been suggested today. Right now, though, I'd be demanding, either directly or via the SPL, to find out what Sky's rights are in terms of pulling out of this season's coverage. There's been a lot of conjecture on this point - let's have it out. Newco or not, will they stick with the contract they've got in place? I'd imagine they would honour the deal, but maybe I'm naive. Your point about the contracts concrens me though - we are unlikely to have the deciding vote on Newco - and there is a groundwell of feeling that more clubs will vote 'no'. Are you suggesting St MIrren are f**ked either way (ie no matter who's in charge) if Sky pulls out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Why do you need a proposal to do that right now? I would suggest we wait. The timing sucks, but we can't hide from the fact that the Rangers fiasco is making the takeover bid far more perilous than it should be. Right now, there's a Cold War going on between the SPL, Sky, Newco and fans of Scottish football, and St Mirren and its takeover bid are caught right in the crossfire. I would suggest it's literally impossible to progress any takeover like this, and I fully support the delay that has been suggested today. Right now, though, I'd be demanding, either directly or via the SPL, to find out what Sky's rights are in terms of pulling out of this season's coverage. There's been a lot of conjecture on this point - let's have it out. Newco or not, will they stick with the contract they've got in place? I'd imagine they would honour the deal, but maybe I'm naive. Your point about the contracts concrens me though - we are unlikely to have the deciding vote on Newco - and there is a groundwell of feeling that more clubs will vote 'no'. Are you suggesting St MIrren are f**ked either way (ie no matter who's in charge) if Sky pulls out? What everyone seems to be forgetting in this whole story is the power the customers have. Football fans have made their clubs sit up and take notice and I wouldn't be surprised if Sky have been closely watching what's going on, but remember there are alternatives to Sky tv and the Murdoch press. It might be the same programmes that are received via Virgin or BT but Sky receive less money than they do from their direct customers due to bulk discounts. Do Sky really want to start driving their customers to their competitors ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 That's Killie letting their fans decide now - they didn't have to pay for a vote, and it would seem that the club are organising it. How hard would it be for the club to email its supporters database and ask each fan for their response to a question by a set date. Suggest you Email the club and ask them to do it then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Suggest you Email the club and ask them to do it then ? Or 10000 Hours could listen to the wider community that they would like to join them at some point or are they not that bothered about that now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbain Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 My feelings at present is that the whole scenario with the newco and the 10,000hrs is all a complete mess, over the past couple of weeks, the fans were asked to sign up and sprwd the word in getting people signed up to the 10,000hrs and to be honest we just seem to be getting one delay after another which I don't feel very comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Or 10000 Hours could listen to the wider community that they would like to join them at some point or are they not that bothered about that now? You are full of good ideas John, but don't seem to want to actually do anything at all except post on here telling everyone what they should be doing and carping about anything that anyone actually is doing. 10000hours is going to poll its members. That is going to be quite a key part of the way the organisation will work if it is successful in taking over the football club so I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to do this and test one of the technology models that are open to us to do this at the same time. You can't really sit on the outside and slam the CIC and then start crying because you aren't being asked to contribute to decisions the CIC members want to take ? You will now spin this into a them and us debate but the reality is that this is exactly the same way that SMiSA works. Cake and eat it springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 You can't really sit on the outside and slam the CIC div......this is a very important point and is a key one to understand in terms of how the CIC will function: 10000 Hours is not and never will be St Mirren Football Club. 10000 Hours is not and never will be 100% of the St Mirren community. It isn't even in place yet and already it is behaving like the rest of the support do not exist or matter. That does not bode well for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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