Update - 21St June

[Drew]

Speculating that the announcement will be a further extension.

Another extension? Are Duff & Phelps co-ordinating negotiations, FFS?

[santaponsasaint]

Jeeze, not good at all.

Its more of Sids childish rubbish, it never said anything like that, all it said was both parties were locked in talks all afternoon

[dave.j]

Surely if you were either of the other 2 parties, looking to buy the 52% share, you would be getting a little pissed off that 1 bid was getting priority over yours?

As well as extensions to find the cash and to formally bid.

Especially if you have the money sitting in the bank, right now?

[div]

In what capacity were you there David?

No real capacity, I was there representing 10000Hours along with Richard, Gordon and Tony Fitz.

Although I have no wish to stand (and indeed definitely won't be standing) for any position of responsibility in the organisation post takeover I have invested a lot of time into the bid over the last few weeks so it was felt beneficial to have me there today.

[billyg]

When you consider that the target has been surpassed by such a large amount , it is disappointing that it's not been concluded. Not a good sign I would have thought !

[St. Sid]

Its more of Sids childish rubbish, it never said anything like that, all it said was both parties were locked in talks all afternoon

A wee bit harsh there SPS.......they said something along the lines of St Mirren fans will have to wait to find out if they have been successful - that's pretty much the same as no agreement has been reached.....I didn't say that the deal was dead.

[buddiecat]

When you consider that the target has been surpassed by such a large amount , it is disappointing that it's not been concluded. Not a good sign I would have thought !

exactly billy - no conclusion = no deal, considering the vast support from fans, the bid must still be way off target

[pick]

There is a bit on the BBC sport wesite at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18464359

Edited June 21, 2012 by pick

[Julian Banjos]

Speculating that the announcement will be a further extension. The PDE carried a report that quoted Gordon Scott saying that the offer may fall a "couple of hundred thousand pounds short" but that he felt it would be worth it. I can imagine a reluctance to accept less than they think is fair but it would be stupid to sink the bid at the point where it seems to be at a peak in terms of momentum.

Here's that article from today: http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/renfrewshire-football/renfrewshire-football-st-mirren/2012/06/21/gilmour-urged-to-secure-his-saints-legacy-87085-31226477/

Gordon Scott told Express Sports: “Stewart and the rest of the consortium have said all along that they will do the right thing. They have said all along that they want the fans to get control of the club. They have said all along that they support 10000Hours. I would like to think that they will stand by those words. Even if we have to negotiate a reduced price, it would be worthwhile to them. We’re talking about their legacy here – it may cost them a couple of hundred thousand pounds but we feel it is worth it.”

The 10000Hours team have now secured cash pledges worth almost £11,000 a month from supporters who have signed up for individual memberships of the takeover scheme. However, they are sweating on the numbers for two exclusive packages, costing between £3,000 and £25,000, which offer investors a greater say on how the Buddies would be run in future. Last-minute calls were being made to a list of wealthy supporters and local business chiefs last night in a bid to boost the 10000Hours coffers.

But, with the takeover group set to meet Gilmour and the others this morning to table their final offer, the consortium may be asked to haggle further on an asking price which has already been dropped by £500,000.

Scott added: “This is just as big a decision as anything the consortium have made in the past. It’s every bit as important as any of the other big decisions they have made, if not more so. You have to say that, when you look at every big decision that Stewart and the others have made since taking over, they have got it right. I hope they get this one right too. You can go back to the Reg Brealey bid in 1998 – they saved the club from him. They have got rid of the club’s debt, built a brand new stadium and established Saints in the SPL. Now they can go down in history for certain by handing the club over to its supporters.”

[St. Sid]

exactly billy - no conclusion = no deal, considering the vast support from fans, the bid must still be way off target

We only really have Div's post to go at the moment - not the one about the sausage rolls, the other one -

I was at the meeting today, the deal remains alive. Club and 10000Hours will issue a joint statement tomorrow morning.

The deal remains alive is an odd turn of phrase. It suggests there has been no conclusion, but that there is more work to be done - probably fine tuning...10000 hours said as much before the meeting. The second giveaway is that it is a "joint statement" - that'll be the first time we will have had one of those, which suggest a positive outcome is more likely.

[reborn saint]

So the deal falls short of maybe between £100,000 - £200,000 up front money. The 1877 and 1987 have not been the cash cow producers the CiC wanted. Not really a surprise in the current climate. Individual memberships still growing as we speak and are now over £11000 per month. £900,000 up front was the original deal so now CiC might only be able to offer say £750,000. What does that mean for the BOD?....Well as there are 5 directors (albeit with different amounts of shares) that would equate to a £30,000 shortfall each. Now as they are not short of a bob or two the question is.....can the CiC convince the BOD that they will get their money but it might take longer?....IMHO they can and the statement tomorrow will not be anything other than a yes or no .....and it will be a YES!

Edited June 21, 2012 by reborn saint

[kpj]

It's probably foolish to be overly optimistic about anything involving St. Mirren, so I'll just take the fact that the deal is definitely not dead to heart and hope for the best while preparing for the worst.

[Julian Banjos]

What does that mean for the BOD?....Well as there are 5 directors (albeit with different amounts of shares) that would equate to a £30,000 shortfall each. Now as they are not short of a bob or two the question is.....can the CiC convince the BOD that they will get their money but it might take longer?....IMHO they can and the statement tomorrow will not be be anything other than a yes or no .....and it will be a YES!

Not an enviable position for the board.

The thing is all we know about is the 10 000 hours bid. The board, on the other hand, have apparently got a few bids to look at. We have no idea how attractive the others might be to the individuals financially or what they say they can do for the club.

[St. Sid]

If we're short £200K in the lump sum payment the response from the business community must be utterly shite. Rough calculations would suggest that only 4 or 5 corporates have signed up to the 1877 club. They must also be short about 30 odd in the 87 club. At the risk of appearing mischievous 10000 Hours got their targets all wrong. The rank and file have piled in, and the romoured interest in the corporate / SMB side just hasn't produced anywhere the numbers hoped.

I reckon the 87 club numbers could be boosted by some fans ditching their tenner a month and going for the £3K up front. However, if there's over £100K missing from the £25K-a-shot 1877 club members that's going to be a tough gap to fill.

If there are other bids and they are meeting the asking price it is a pretty big ask for the consortium members to dump £200K. If 30 supporters were to switch to 87 club membership that would add £90K to the initial payment to the consortium. That might be more pallatable for them. Hopefully, 10000 Hours will explain the sactual position - if you don't know about it you can't do anything about it.

[buddiecat]

We only really have Div's post to go at the moment - not the one about the sausage rolls, the other one -

The deal remains alive is an odd turn of phrase. It suggests there has been no conclusion, but that there is more work to be done - probably fine tuning...10000 hours said as much before the meeting. The second giveaway is that it is a "joint statement" - that'll be the first time we will have had one of those, which suggest a positive outcome is more likely.

possibly keeping consortium on board and allowing them a casting vote or some similar agreement, in return for promise of making up the deficit in future? what do you think

[St. Sid]

So the deal falls short of maybe between £100,000 - £200,000 up front money. The 1877 and 1987 have not been the cash cow producers the CiC wanted. Not really a surprise in the current climate. Individual memberships still growing as we speak and are now over £11000 per month. £900,000 up front was the original deal so now CiC might only be able to offer say £750,000. What does that mean for the BOD?....Well as there are 5 directors (albeit with different amounts of shares) that would equate to a £30,000 shortfall each. Now as they are not short of a bob or two the question is.....can the CiC convince the BOD that they will get their money but it might take longer?....IMHO they can and the statement tomorrow will not be anything other than a yes or no .....and it will be a YES!

I think the BBC article pick posted offers more insight than Div 's one liner:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18464359

St Mirren takeover bid: Fans group awaits response to offer

The 10000Hours Group have submitted their bid to take St Mirren into fan ownership but no decision has yet been taken by the selling consortium.

BBC Scotland has learned further examination of the offer will take place and it could be a couple of weeks before a verdict is reached.

Richard Atkinson is leading the fans' attempts to gain a majority shareholding in the club.

And he is expected to give an update on 10000Hours' plans on Friday.

The community interest company started its online scheme after reaching an agreement in principle with the selling consortium, led by chairman Stewart Gilmour, to buy a 52% shareholding for a total purchase price of £1.5m over three years.

A target of 750 pledges of £10 per month was surpassed but two other categories requiring significantly higher levels of funding had been lagging behind.

The other funding options were a one-off payment of £3,000 for what amounts to a lifetime membership and a fee of £25,000 to buy up a chunk of shares in the club.

The Buddies board, led by Gilmour, is hoping for a sale to be completed before the new Scottish Premier League season commences on 4 August.

"The response from the rank and file fans has been phenomenal," said Atkinson on Tuesday. "It has been well in excess of what we hoped for and it's still growing.

"Individual membership is sitting at about 140% of what we budgeted for.

"There are other interested parties at the moment.

"If we don't buy it, someone else will. That's what the chairman has said."

[Maboza]

Surely if you were either of the other 2 parties, looking to buy the 52% share, you would be getting a little pissed off that 1 bid was getting priority over yours?

As well as extensions to find the cash and to formally bid.

Especially if you have the money sitting in the bank, right now?

Unless there are no other bids. Spin to frighten fans toward 10000hours bid.

The current board are wanting their big pay day! 10000hours was always the vehicle for them getting that payday as no-one wanted to pay £2m for a football club. It dropped to £1.5m and now 10000hours has come short on that despite the unprecedented fan support that has come in this last week.

Now the chips are down and the selling consortium can see the pound signs disappearing we will see if they are true to their words that they are interested in the best future for the club in which case they'd cut their losses.

[St. Sid]

possibly keeping consortium on board and allowing them a casting vote or some similar agreement, in return for promise of making up the deficit in future? what do you think

Dunno Bud, there's a shedload of possibilities. I do know that some fans (probably StuDick and the rubber duck brigade) said they wouldn't sign up if SG stayed involved. With the over subscription 10000 Hours might be willing to gamble on a few fans like that pulling out; however I think the deal with GLS may have scuppered the opportunity for that. They already have two unelected Board members in play. I don't think they would get away with fudging the OMOV any more than they already have.

However, there's a shedload of options. The consortium are already deferring some of their retirement package. The increase in the members might give them the confidence to defer more of the payment. I think a take or leave it approach would be a mistake though. If the beeb is right and the consortium are taking a couple of weeks to ponder it might be an opportunity to land some more corporate bawbags.

I don't see why REA, Chris Stewart, etc all don't just take out 1877 club memberships. That is a shareholders club rather than a CIC membership - I don't see the conflict there. We were told Maxi Group would be taking out a corporate membership - that leaves just 2 or 3 other corporate 1877 club members. Hazarding a guess I think JD Sports were going to another - possibly Braehead? What's happened to all the "successful businessmen" that were going to bring new ideas into the club?

[Stuart Dickson]

Dunno Bud, there's a shedload of possibilities. I do know that some fans (probably StuDick and the rubber duck brigade) said they wouldn't sign up if SG stayed involved. With the over subscription 10000 Hours might be willing to gamble on a few fans like that pulling out; however I think the deal with GLS may have scuppered the opportunity for that. They already have two unelected Board members in play. I don't think they would get away with fudging the OMOV any more than they already have.

However, there's a shedload of options. The consortium are already deferring some of their retirement package. The increase in the members might give them the confidence to defer more of the payment. I think a take or leave it approach would be a mistake though. If the beeb is right and the consortium are taking a couple of weeks to ponder it might be an opportunity to land some more corporate bawbags.

I don't see why REA, Chris Stewart, etc all don't just take out 1877 club memberships. That is a shareholders club rather than a CIC membership - I don't see the conflict there. We were told Maxi Group would be taking out a corporate membership - that leaves just 2 or 3 other corporate 1877 club members. Hazarding a guess I think JD Sports were going to another - possibly Braehead? What's happened to all the "successful businessmen" that were going to bring new ideas into the club?

Not me Sid. The truth is I am had to hold my nose whilst signing up for my DDM's for this knowing full well that the money I was paying in was going directly to people who I quite frankly cannot stand, but at no point did I make conditions to 10000hours for me signing up - and if I did I would think it would be pretty bizarre if they listened to me considering that my memberships are both monthly payments.

[buddiecat]

Dunno Bud, there's a shedload of possibilities. I do know that some fans (probably StuDick and the rubber duck brigade) said they wouldn't sign up if SG stayed involved. With the over subscription 10000 Hours might be willing to gamble on a few fans like that pulling out; however I think the deal with GLS may have scuppered the opportunity for that. They already have two unelected Board members in play. I don't think they would get away with fudging the OMOV any more than they already have.

However, there's a shedload of options. The consortium are already deferring some of their retirement package. The increase in the members might give them the confidence to defer more of the payment. I think a take or leave it approach would be a mistake though. If the beeb is right and the consortium are taking a couple of weeks to ponder it might be an opportunity to land some more corporate bawbags.

I don't see why REA, Chris Stewart, etc all don't just take out 1877 club memberships. That is a shareholders club rather than a CIC membership - I don't see the conflict there. We were told Maxi Group would be taking out a corporate membership - that leaves just 2 or 3 other corporate 1877 club members. Hazarding a guess I think JD Sports were going to another - possibly Braehead? What's happened to all the "successful businessmen" that were going to bring new ideas into the club?

don't know what happened to all those business types, certainly nothing to do with govan situation as that was well to the fore when last announced that the business pledgers were stacking up, what scared them off ? if they were there at all is anybodys guess. i would hazard a guess that they promised to sign up but were just fannying around seeing what they could gain from the pre deal talks,or even just posturing saying "yes i'm in blah blah loads of cash blah blah" but they didn't actually have the wherewithall

[E=Mc2]

Would making it £11 per month or £12 per month do it?

There must be amount that would do it.

Or how many more £10 pledges would they require?

[Stuart Dickson]

Sid, on the business membership I think 10000hours got their marketing wrong. I tried in my amateurish way to address what I saw as a lack of detail on here but no-one followed my lead.

The point I was trying to make is that if you really are a community then there has to be an attempt to look after the interests of all parties in order to give them a return on their support. To my mind there are four parties in 10000hours - St Mirren FC, the individual members, the charity groups and the commercial members. Now much of the conversation on this website and on the 10000hours website has related specifically to what the benefit to St Mirren would be - there has been absolutely nothing on what the benefits of the community would be to the individual member, the community member and most importantly to the corporate and I think that's where 10000hours have got this wrong.

£25k for a suit, a pile of worthless shares, and the opportunity to pay for cups of tea in the club lounge doesn't look like value for money to me. It would have been better had a business got a clear understanding of the commercial advantage that it would gain through membership by working with the community members, and got a commitment from individual members that their involvement would see a response from the individual members too.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Stuart Dickson

[buddiecat]

Would making it £11 per month or £12 per month do it?

There must be amount that would do it.

Or how many more £10 pledges would they require?

well going by the lowest figure in gordon scotts' statement which was £100,000 = 10,0000 new tenner pledgers needed, thats never happening so more 87 club plegers or 25k pledgers are vital

[St. Sid]

Would making it £11 per month or £12 per month do it?

There must be amount that would do it.

Or how many more £10 pledges would they require?

Disnae help Bud....we need up front cash like the £3K for the 87 club, so it would take about 60 or so fans to swap from the tenner -a- month to an up front payment. Losing 60 or so off the monthly payment would be fine as we are sort of over subscribed there.

[St. Sid]

Sid, on the business membership I think 10000hours got their marketing wrong. I tried in my amateurish way to address what I saw as a lack of detail on here but no-one followed my lead.

The point I was trying to make is that if you really are a community then there has to be an attempt to look after the interests of all parties in order to give them a return on their support. To my mind there are four parties in 10000hours - St Mirren FC, the individual members, the charity groups and the commercial members. Now much of the conversation on this website and on the 10000hours website has related specifically to what the benefit to St Mirren would be - there has been absolutely nothing on what the benefits of the community would be to the individual member, the community member and most importantly to the corporate and I think that's where 10000hours have got this wrong.

£25k for a suit, a pile of worthless shares, and the opportunity to pay for cups of tea in the club lounge doesn't look like value for money to me. It would have been better had a business got a clear understanding of the commercial advantage that it would gain through membership by working with the community members, and got a commitment from individual members that their involvement would see a response from the individual members too.

I was never convinced by the £25K corporate membership. For a £25K marketing investment in my industry you would be looking for at least a £250K return. I agree that the community aspect might have been a different angle for corporates - many of them set aside funding for such marketing initiatives - probably some tax avoidance bawbaggery.