Are You Going To Sign Up To Join #buythebuds At Smisa.net?

[Sonny]

Funny how sometimes a word can crop up you've not heard in a while and then you hear it several times again quite soon afterwards. Kayak. Last Thursday morning I was in Birkenhead to get the Belfast ferry and a guy turned up whose only piece of hand luggage was a kayak that must have been about 15 feet long. It was a hoot seeing the check-in girl's face. She didn't have a clue what to say but the guy got permission to carry on. But because it was hand luggage the blokes that load the trailers for luggage pointed out he would have to take the kayak on the bus that takes foot passengers over to the ship. Now buses aren't designed to take fifteen foot canoes and it was hilarious watching them trying to fit it in. Eventually they managed and the bloke actually sat beside me with the kayak filling virtually the whole passage. I asked him did he know lifeboats were supplied on board but I don't think he was too amused. When we got to Belfast the bus that comes on board for foot passengers is a rinky-dink wee thing and it looked impossible to get it in. But after a lot of four letter words, they somehow managed.

Anyhow, I digress. In an earlier post, Sonny, you rightly said this is the only show in town. How long do we piss about waiting on a shiny white knight? This is as near as we are likely to get and he's a genuine fan. I know some guys genuinely can't afford £12 a month but I don't understand how guys who can comfortably afford it won't do it. This might well be the last chance we get. For less than the price of a beer per week we have a chance to secure the long term future of Saint Mirren. There's an old aphorism about f**kups developing when good men do nothing. Do something positive. Sitting on the sidelines waiting for a perfect solution is achieving eff all. I'm signed up, by the way.

Cal-Mac are great. You can just turn up and carry your boat aboard the car deck - note that sea kayaks are 16ft long so not easy to carry up a gangway! And there is no charge.

And yes Rick, what is the alternative? We have deteriorating stagnation and after 7 years have no white knights on the horizon. It is this deal or nothing.

[faraway saint]

Cal-Mac are great. You can just turn up and carry your boat aboard the car deck - note that sea kayaks are 16ft long so not easy to carry up a gangway! And there is no charge.

And yes Rick, what is the alternative? We have deteriorating stagnation and after 7 years have no white knights on the horizon. It is this deal or nothing.

Aren't there two other parties interested waiting in the wings?

[Drew]

Aren't there two other parties interested waiting in the wings?

As things stand, it's this or nothing. Until another bidder breaks cover, that'll remain the case.

I, for one, ain't holding my breath....

[Sonny]

Aren't there two other parties interested waiting in the wings?

We heard that at the 10K bid and now. Funny that these other interested parties do not reveal themselves when there are no other bids about.

Maybe there are other bids but the silence from them is deafening. I may be wrong but is Chico the only source for these supposed two other bids or can anyone else corroborate?

[rea]

We heard that at the 10K bid and now. Funny that these other interested parties do not reveal themselves when there are no other bids about.

Maybe there are other bids but the silence from them is deafening. I may be wrong but is Chico the only source for these supposed two other bids or can anyone else corroborate?

there are other active bids

[Sonny]

Thanks rea. Is anyone in a position to provide more information?

[faraway saint]

Aren't there two other parties interested waiting in the wings?

there are other active bids

Without knowing anything about these other bids more people will sway towards the, supposed, only gig in town, rightly or wrongly.

By keeping quiet they, IMO, are weakening their position, if they are realistic at all.

Edited April 26, 2016 by faraway saint

[Kendo]

Without knowing anything about these other bids more people will sway towards the, supposed, only gig in town, rightly or wrongly.

By keeping quiet they, IMO, are weakening their position, if they are realistic at all.

It would be suicide for another bid to go up against the fans buy out. How would they get support from the fans after going against them? My guess would be that if there are other bids they will only come in should the fans bid fail.

[faraway saint]

It would be suicide for another bid to go up against the fans buy out. How would they get support from the fans after going against them? My guess would be that if there are other bids they will only come in should the fans bid fail.

It would be the current boards decision, no?

I'd agree the latter suggestion would be the case, but, hey, I don't know, does anybody?

[faraway saint]

Just checked the current poll.................

Not as conclusive as some would suggest.

Interesting.

[shull]

As long as fans continue to attend Matches, other Bids don't need anything else from the fans.

[faraway saint]

Other bids may take more of your money through season ticket and gate price increases.

The SMiSA bid will allow us as fans to influence such matters.

You honestly think?

[linwood buddie]

Other bids may take more of your money through season ticket and gate price increases.

The SMiSA bid will allow us as fans to influence such matters.

In what way?. Are SIMSA going to ask the fans how much they want to pay? My answer to that would be "As little as possible"

[linwood buddie]

If everyone took that attitude, then Shull's dream of part time football would be a reality. LOL.

Perhaps you may misunderstand how the process will work. Initially there will be a SMiSA fans rep on the board of directors who will have to work with other directors on decisions such as ST & gate prices, playing budgets, etc.

I don't believe every decision will require feedback direct from members. The way SMiSA has worked in the past is that when key decisions are made it goes to a vote and the membership will propose what happens next. Under this proposal it is not clear what will be voted on. These are valid questions for the public meetings so that we can all understand and agree a way forward.

With any rival bids - the fans will have no say or input.

Do you honestly believe the SIMSA fans rep will have any sort of input? IMO he or she will be no more than a seat filler , GS and whoever he picks will make the decisions .

I know how the process will work do you? ,Yes it will go to a vote ,GS and his appointees v SIMSA solo rep .

Wonder how that would go?

lol.

[shull]

Other bids may take more of your money through season ticket and gate price increases.

The SMiSA bid will allow us as fans to influence such matters.

Scaremongering pish again.

Others bids may half admission prices and fix the Tannoy System.

[faraway saint]

While we are paying of the initial loan and buying out GLS we will have a fans rep on the board who will be involved in such decisions.

Ultimately when FO is totally in the hands of supporters, then yes I would anticipate even more influence from the members.

That's your understanding, I happen to believe, as is mentioned above by Linwood Buddie, there will be little influence from the support or the token board member.

Edited April 26, 2016 by faraway saint

[shull]

And Slash, what is f**king funny about Part Time football?

Hardcore support of less than 2000 trying to sustain full time professional football is f**king lunacy.

TWENTY f**kING POUNDS THEY ARE CHARGING TO WATCH ABSOLUTE SHITE.

And you think it's funny.

So deluded.

Scaremongerer

[faraway saint]

And Slash, what is f**king funny about Part Time football?

Hardcore support of less than 2000 trying to sustain full time professional football is f**king lunacy.

TWENTY f**kING POUNDS THEY ARE CHARGING TO WATCH ABSOLUTE SHITE.

And you think it's funny.

So deluded.

Scaremongerer

Go watch the juniors then and stop fcuking kidding yourself on.

[TediousTom]

Go watch the juniors then and stop fcuking kidding yourself on.

Leave Shull alone, the last thing we need is that 2000 fans becoming 1999!!!!!

[Stuart Dickson]

Do you honestly believe the SIMSA fans rep will have any sort of input? IMO he or she will be no more than a seat filler , GS and whoever he picks will make the decisions .

I know how the process will work do you? ,Yes it will go to a vote ,GS and his appointees v SIMSA solo rep .

Wonder how that would go?

lol.

Surely that would depend on how convincing the SMiSA Reps argument was. They are going to be representing a fairly significant proportion of the clubs paying customers. Any board of directors, fan owned or not, would find it difficult not to at least pay some heed. After all Gordon Scott would stand to lose quite a considerable proportion of his wealth if the club went to administration or liquidation, or if the SMiSA membership fail to repay their loan meaning either Gordon Scott steps in to take over that proportion of the debt, or the company providing the finance takes charge of the stadium.

Of course there is a very good chance that you'd be correct. If the SMiSA membership elect a weak representative then there is every possibility that they could well be steamrolled at every opportunity. That's where the election and what candidate you vote for would become essential. Hopefully the candidates that do eventually emerge aren't going to be simple yes men.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[faraway saint]

Surely that would depend on how convincing the SMiSA Reps argument was. They are going to be representing a fairly significant proportion of the clubs paying customers. Any board of directors, fan owned or not, would find it difficult not to at least pay some heed. After all Gordon Scott would stand to lose quite a considerable proportion of his wealth if the club went to administration or liquidation, or if the SMiSA membership fail to repay their loan meaning either Gordon Scott steps in to take over that proportion of the debt, or the company providing the finance takes charge of the stadium.

Of course there is a very good chance that you'd be correct. If the SMiSA membership elect a weak representative then there is every possibility that they could well be steamrolled at every opportunity. That's where the election and what candidate you vote for would become essential. Hopefully the candidates that do eventually emerge aren't going to be simple yes men.

How exactly would that happen?

How would this process work, the elected board member has a meeting with SMISA members when anything/everything is discussed?

Wouldn't this quickly result in nothing getting done?

This is a real reason, the supposed "coming and going" to SMISA members when a matter arises, and who decides it's important enough to discuss with SMISA, or when it's not, that the supports idea will quickly become a distant romantic vision, IMO.

[linwood buddie]

Surely that would depend on how convincing the SMiSA Reps argument was. They are going to be representing a fairly significant proportion of the clubs paying customers. Any board of directors, fan owned or not, would find it difficult not to at least pay some heed. After all Gordon Scott would stand to lose quite a considerable proportion of his wealth if the club went to administration or liquidation, or if the SMiSA membership fail to repay their loan meaning either Gordon Scott steps in to take over that proportion of the debt, or the company providing the finance takes charge of the stadium.

Of course there is a very good chance that you'd be correct. If the SMiSA membership elect a weak representative then there is every possibility that they could well be steamrolled at every opportunity. That's where the election and what candidate you vote for would become essential. Hopefully the candidates that do eventually emerge aren't going to be simple yes men.

You would hope that would be the case Stu ,but I'm really not convinced that any person elected to represent the fans would be able to have much influence in the boardroom.

I'm not decided yet wether to sign up or not , just not been convinced yet that it will/can work.

[rea]

Surely that would depend on how convincing the SMiSA Reps argument was. They are going to be representing a fairly significant proportion of the clubs paying customers. Any board of directors, fan owned or not, would find it difficult not to at least pay some heed. After all Gordon Scott would stand to lose quite a considerable proportion of his wealth if the club went to administration or liquidation, or if the SMiSA membership fail to repay their loan meaning either Gordon Scott steps in to take over that proportion of the debt, or the company providing the finance takes charge of the stadium.

Of course there is a very good chance that you'd be correct. If the SMiSA membership elect a weak representative then there is every possibility that they could well be steamrolled at every opportunity. That's where the election and what candidate you vote for would become essential. Hopefully the candidates that do eventually emerge aren't going to be simple yes men.

i think you need to remember (i posted about this sometime ago) that the only organisation that can appoint a board member to SMFC is the SMFC shareholders.

What Gordon is effectively saying is that is SMISA members have a vote among themselves then the winner of that vote will get the backing of GLS majority shareholding at the AGM and so become a member of the St Mirren board.

However the small print needs to be watched.

The Club board rotates every three years, in that each member currently needs to stand for re-elction every three years, do SMISA intend that it should be the same person for the first three year or should it be an annual election?

Als when you are a member of the SMFC board your first duty is to SMFC not SMISA, it does not matter that it is because of your involvment with and support of SMISA that you got there, the board of SMFC can limit what you are able to say to SMISA if it wishes, so again the small print of the workings of the relationship is vital.

I personally spent a lot of time on this at 10000hours and while the outcome may have made it all seem a bit complex the key was it was all written down in advance....such as the fact that under 10000hours the SMFC board would delegate on a OMOV basis any vote within the SPFL for league reconstruction etc, meaning that on the really big decsions the fans were absolutly in control.

this all needs thought from SMISA and GLS but mjjost importantly understanding from those financing it so that the expectations are correct and workable.

I personally do not think that if SMISA get 1000members that there will be much if any drop off, but that is provided that those funding it have the right expectations at the start.

i am sure more structural info will come out as the numbers draw closer to 1000

[Lord Pityme]

Lets take a real example of what difference and influence there would be with a Smisa Board member, and holding almost 30% of shares.

Gordon used the example of the upcoming stupid decision to turf season ticket holders out of their seats to accommodate a support that wont even be in our league next season. He indicated that he wouldnt be in a position, or have the inclination to just make that type of decision without consulting all major shareholders (i.e. Smisa).

Dont you think the Smisa membership could come up with a much better contingency to cover such circumstances in the future that maximises income, but has been devised with/by the fans affected?

What input did we have this time round?

[linwood buddie]

Lets take a real example of what difference and influence there would be with a Smisa Board member, and holding almost 30% of shares.

Gordon used the example of the upcoming stupid decision to turf season ticket holders out of their seats to accommodate a support that wont even be in our league next season. He indicated that he wouldnt be in a position, or have the inclination to just make that type of decision without consulting all major shareholders (i.e. Smisa).

Dont you think the Smisa membership could come up with a much better contingency to cover such circumstances in the future that maximises income, but has been devised with/by the fans affected?

What input did we have this time round?

Als when you are a member of the SMFC board your first duty is to SMFC not SMISA, it does not matter that it is because of your involvment with and support of SMISA that you got there, the board of SMFC can limit what you are able to say to SMISA if it wishes, so again the small print of the workings of the relationship is vital.

Taken from rea's post , I think he knows a bit more about this issue.