Reasonable Force

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, East Lothian Saint said:

I think what you're Quoting is Irish Law as in not Scottish or English law. It doesn't apply here only the Irish Statute books.

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

UK law above..................and below.

You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.

This means you can:

• protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon
• stop an intruder running off - eg tackle them to the ground

There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. Read guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service.

You don’t have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

• carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger
• pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police

[Guest TPAFKATS]

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders
UK law above..................and below.

You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.

This means you can:

• protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon
• stop an intruder running off - eg tackle them to the ground

There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. Read guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service.

You don’t have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

• carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger
• pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police

There isn't UK law.

[East Lothian Saint]

10 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

https://www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders

UK law above..................and below.

You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.

This means you can:

• protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon
• stop an intruder running off - eg tackle them to the ground

There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. Read guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service.

You don’t have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

• carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger
• pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police

The Crown Prosecution Service is English with no relevance in Scotland so their guidance dosn't apply here However the last bit would confirm the response must be proportionate. 

The "you don't have to wait to be attacked before your defending yourself in your home" is bad advice.  If you are 6'2 well built and built like a brick shit house and you smash a 5'1" skinny runt and kill them you would probably get done for at least manslaughter unless you could prove your life was in danger. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by East Lothian Saint

[Guest TPAFKATS]

If you kill someone, you will be arrested and questioned. There is nothing wrong with what happened to the old man.
Facts need to be established.  Surely people don't expect him to get a pat on the back and sent back to bed as if nothing happened?
As far as I'm aware, he was arrested then released and hasn't been charged. All seems pretty normal to me.

This thread was reading like the Mail Online comments section until the quoted post.

[pod]

2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Agree but I would set fire to him then piss on him, saving the tax payer money on burying the waste of space  

Waste of a good piss.  Would let him burn. 

[saintnextlifetime]

36 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

I think what you're Quoting is Irish Law as in not Scottish or English law. It doesn't apply here only the Irish Statute books.

I really wouldnae get my knickers in a twist about it. .

[East Lothian Saint]

9 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

I really wouldnae get my knickers in a twist about it. .

Too late - Bud

If I ever need a lawyer in the next lifetime I'll make sure he's not a Saint

[saintnextlifetime]

12 hours ago, East Lothian Saint said:

Too late - Bud

If I ever need a lawyer in the next lifetime I'll make sure he's not a Saint

Lol. .

I will recall that the next time l'm in East Lothian. .

[DougJamie]

13 hours ago, pod said:

Waste of a good piss.  Would let him burn. 

Personally I don't grade my piss....... is this another EU regulation we are trying to get out of

[pod]

3 hours ago, DougJamie said:

Personally I don't talk piss....... is this another EU regulation we are trying to get out of

[DougJamie]

39 minutes ago, pod said:

Lazy but funny !!!

[faraway saint]

Nice family................

A career criminal who was stabbed to death during a suspected burglary of a pensioner’s house didn’t deserve to die, his family has said.

Henry Vincent, 37, died after being stabbed during a botched raid at the south-east London property of Richard Osborn-Brooks in the early hours of Wednesday.

Mr Osborn-Brooks was arrested on suspicion of murder and released on bail pending further inquiries on Thursday, the Metropolitan Police said.

It has emerged that Vincent, from Kent, was a career criminal who was wanted by Kent Police investigating a distraction burglary involving jewellery and valuables stolen from a man in his 70s.

According to reports, members of his family were jailed for a total of almost 29 years in 2003 after conning pensioners across Kent and south London out of nearly £448,180.

[beyond our ken]

8 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Nice family................

A career criminal who was stabbed to death during a suspected burglary of a pensioner’s house didn’t deserve to die, his family has said.

Henry Vincent, 37, died after being stabbed during a botched raid at the south-east London property of Richard Osborn-Brooks in the early hours of Wednesday.

Mr Osborn-Brooks was arrested on suspicion of murder and released on bail pending further inquiries on Thursday, the Metropolitan Police said.

It has emerged that Vincent, from Kent, was a career criminal who was wanted by Kent Police investigating a distraction burglary involving jewellery and valuables stolen from a man in his 70s.

According to reports, members of his family were jailed for a total of almost 29 years in 2003 after conning pensioners across Kent and south London out of nearly £448,180.

So, none of them convicted of a crime would currently or previously have carried a capital sentence.

 

Agree, they are not nice people.  But the deceased was an opportunistic thief.  Does that really mean he deserved to die?

 

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, beyond our ken said:

So, none of them convicted of a crime would currently or previously have carried a capital sentence.

 

Agree, they are not nice people.  But the deceased was an opportunistic thief.  Does that really mean he deserved to die?

 

Am I upset, no, but no one "deserves to die"for a burglary.

The person he had burgled would have been in an extreme state of fear, IMO, and in these circumstances rules go somewhat out of the window.

It wasn't premeditated, it almost certain wasn't meant as an act to kill him. 

If he, or anyone threatened my family I would do whatever I had to in the circumstances.

Would you? 

[DougJamie]

6 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

So, none of them convicted of a crime would currently or previously have carried a capital sentence.

 

Agree, they are not nice people.  But the deceased was an opportunistic thief.  Does that really mean he deserved to die?

 

There are millions in this world that don't deserve to die, they are victims of something

This guy is no victim, but the ones he robs, terrorises , distresses are.......

He died, he put himself in an illegal situation for personal gain with no thought to others..

My heart is not bleeding, as for his family comments - who gives a ...... a bunch of thieves and liars............ who will cost us thousands to prosecute ................

 

 

[beyond our ken]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Am I upset, no, but no one "deserves to die"for a burglary.

The person he had burgled would have been in an extreme state of fear, IMO, and in these circumstances rules go somewhat out of the window.

It wasn't premeditated, it almost certain wasn't meant as an act to kill him. 

If he, or anyone threatened my family I would do whatever I had to in the circumstances.

Would you? 

I have done in the past and have often thought of the risk i put myself and my family at by having a go

In short, i decided to move my family out after i confronted a team of neds on the steps of my flat in Dykebar.  yes, i saw them all off and the next day, when i saw the amount of blood on the steps and the doors of the building i realised that this was never going to be over.  i could have killed someone or could have been killed myself.   

 

a few years later, i got home with my wife and son to find the house had been burgled and the robbers had only just made their escape just before I got home.  At the time i thought that it was lucky for them that i hadn't caught them red-handed, in hindsight, with a female and a 6 year old in tow, it was probably more lucky for me.

[Callum Gilhooley]

52 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I have done in the past and have often thought of the risk i put myself and my family at by having a go

In short, i decided to move my family out after i confronted a team of neds on the steps of my flat in Dykebar.  yes, i saw them all off and the next day, when i saw the amount of blood on the steps and the doors of the building i realised that this was never going to be over.  i could have killed someone or could have been killed myself.   

 

a few years later, i got home with my wife and son to find the house had been burgled and the robbers had only just made their escape just before I got home.  At the time i thought that it was lucky for them that i hadn't caught them red-handed, in hindsight, with a female and a 6 year old in tow, it was probably more lucky for me.

f**k me , its Charles Bronson !! 

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, beyond our ken said:

So, none of them convicted of a crime would currently or previously have carried a capital sentence.

 

Agree, they are not nice people.  But the deceased was an opportunistic thief.  Does that really mean he deserved to die?

 

He didn't need to die because he didn't need to be in there in the first place. He put himself in a situation where by committing a burglary he ran the risk of being injured or killed. When you are the victim of a burglary, you have no idea what the intentions are of the robber. As a result, I would do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family.

f**k him. He brought it upon himself by terrorising others to fund his own life.

[ironsaints87]

He didn't need to die because he didn't need to be in there in the first place. He put himself in a situation where by committing a burglary he ran the risk of being injured or killed. When you are the victim of a burglary, you have no idea what the intentions are of the robber. As a result, I would do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family.
f**k him. He brought it upon himself by terrorising others to fund his own life.

Good riddance to scumbag. One less for taxpayers to Foot his jail sentence. Someone comes in my house I will defend what’s mine and if intruder dies so be it. He shouldn’t be there

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Am I upset, no, but no one "deserves to die"for a burglary.

The person he had burgled would have been in an extreme state of fear, IMO, and in these circumstances rules go somewhat out of the window.

It wasn't premeditated, it almost certain wasn't meant as an act to kill him. 

If he, or anyone threatened my family I would do whatever I had to in the circumstances.

Would you? 

Not often that I agree with Faraway but I do on this occasion. 

Burglary is a crime and there are penalties in place for this - death is not one of those, nor should it be. 

Most of those posting are probably younger and fitter than the pensioner involved. 

He would,  quite understandably,  be in a state of fear and alarm. 

Doubt very much if he intended to cause serious damage let alone kill the perpetrator. 

Sorry for the families of both parties.  Not too sorry for the burglar. 

[pod]

2 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

So, none of them convicted of a crime would currently or previously have carried a capital sentence.

 

Agree, they are not nice people.  But the deceased was an opportunistic thief.  Does that really mean he deserved to die?

 

I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the old man to kill him.  But if you play with fire.

 

 

[faraway saint]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Am I upset, no, but no one "deserves to die"for a burglary.

The person he had burgled would have been in an extreme state of fear, IMO, and in these circumstances rules go somewhat out of the window.

It wasn't premeditated, it almost certain wasn't meant as an act to kill him. 

If he, or anyone threatened my family I would do whatever I had to in the circumstances.

Would you? 

 

15 minutes ago, pod said:

I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the old man to kill him.  But if you play with fire.

 

 

Who'd have thunk it. 

[pod]

7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

 

Who'd have thunk it. 

My specs don't work very well.

[pod]

Come to think of it, there are a few other things.

[E=Mc2]

On 05/04/2018 at 3:47 PM, HSS said:

Anybody who breaks into peoples property to steal deserve to die.

Good on the old guy.Instead of charging him they should be giving him a medal.

Well,  I suppose, if the legal punishment for burglary was death then  you would be right.