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The capacity debacle


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5 minutes ago, Ronnie said:
1 hour ago, FTOF said:
So clueless as usual then.

Did you ask the other 20+ people who also wrote that they had been sacked/let go/relieved of their duties to confirm??? I guess not.

Personally, I can't recall anyone else using "sacked" and they two other phrases do not necessarily mean "sacked".  To be sacked you need to have done something "wrong" which is not necessarily the case with the other phrases.

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35 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

She likes to play with words her retort would be that at least 2000 would be invited however only 1000 would be let in.

Or 2000 could have got in they just never turned up

This isnt down to her this is down to our club the shambolic way this has been handled and no doubt just accepted on top of the season ticket shambles amd the strips debacle 

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18 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You are allowed following a few trials at lower capacities 2000 seated if that can be accommodated with the social distancing regs.

What folk are seeing/reading are just the headline figures not the full details that if you read the full stories you can find out.

At what point do they say anywhere there needs to be trials at lower capacities than 2000. Motherwell played one game at home prior to this weekends kick off dont think Aberdeen played any at home before Hacken amd lets not even get started on the old firm. Why can junior clubs get as many as us for games its a total farce we have lay down and let out bellies be rubbed coupled with the ballot fiasco utter rubbish. But still they ask for money despite missing the boat on more season ticket possible purchases and the strip and merchandise non events 

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20 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You are allowed following a few trials at lower capacities 2000 seated if that can be accommodated with the social distancing regs.

What folk are seeing/reading are just the headline figures not the full details that if you read the full stories you can find out.

I don't know why some can't understand that, you'd think that they might have an axe to grind. :whistle

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42 minutes ago, Ronnie said:
2 hours ago, FTOF said:
So clueless as usual then.

Did you ask the other 20+ people who also wrote that they had been sacked/let go/relieved of their duties to confirm??? I guess not.

I didn't notice 20+ people on here claiming that. 

I only noticed you crowing about it, in yet another dig at the club.

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32 minutes ago, Slarti said:

Personally, I can't recall anyone else using "sacked" and they two other phrases do not necessarily mean "sacked".  To be sacked you need to have done something "wrong" which is not necessarily the case with the other phrases.

That’s a common misconception. In employment law sacked means dismissed from employment. It does not necessarily mean you did anything wrong. Your employment could have been terminated through redundancy, its still by law a sacking.

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32 minutes ago, Clydebanksaint said:

This isnt down to her this is down to our club the shambolic way this has been handled and no doubt just accepted on top of the season ticket shambles amd the strips debacle 

Disagree. It is down her government’s lack of providing clear and equal guidance across the board. Why are other clubs and local authorities having different interpretations of the guidelines imposed on them. 

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IF Saint Mirren had managed to get more than the 1035 v PT at £12.00 a pop requiring more staff to police things then they would have had to have the same arrangements for a game where they would be getting nothing extra. And for further games until all restrictions are lifted. They have our cash. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas. I believe the reduced numbers suited the club in the longer term so they had no reason to question the decision.

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8 minutes ago, FTOF said:

I see Hearts are getting 4500 for their game v The green bigots. 22% of their 20,000 capacity.

Celtic fans frozen out of Tynecastle clash as Hearts learn capacity for Premiership opener - Daily Record

Yeah , our support should just accept that we've been told how many we're allowed in and that's it. Hearts would obviously had made a financial killing if they were allowed a bigger crowd . The clubs clearly have little or no control over the numbers !

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57 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

That’s a common misconception. In employment law sacked means dismissed from employment. It does not necessarily mean you did anything wrong. Your employment could have been terminated through redundancy, its still by law a sacking.

I'd imagine that "sacked" isn't mentioned in law, it would be "dismissed".  If you can point to the relevant law, I'll happily admit I was wrong.

 

Sacked, to me, is a layman's term for being dismissed for doing something wrong.

 

"Dismissed" generally means that you've done something wrong and it's usually stated, e.g. "Dismissed for gross misconduct".

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10 minutes ago, Slarti said:

I'd imagine that "sacked" isn't mentioned in law, it would be "dismissed".  If you can point to the relevant law, I'll happily admit I was wrong.

 

Sacked, to me, is a layman's term for being dismissed for doing something wrong.

 

"Dismissed" generally means that you've done something wrong and it's usually stated, e.g. "Dismissed for gross misconduct".

Sacked means dismissal. Your probably correct that legally they will have used the term “Dismissal” rather than the aggressive verb sacked.

However dismissal covers many avenues of being sacked. Redundancy is one of them. Check out the ACAS webpage for guidance.

Being dismissed/sacked does not necessarily mean you have done something wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Sacked means dismissal. Your probably correct that legally they will have used the term “Dismissal” rather than the aggressive verb sacked.

However dismissal covers many avenues of being sacked. Redundancy is one of them. Check out the ACAS webpage for guidance.

Being dismissed/sacked does not necessarily mean you have done something wrong. 

I disagree, I've NEVER heard of anyone being dismissed for being a star employee. :lol:

Also dismissal is very different from redundancy.

Many people are made redundant, the term "dismissed" is never used in theses instances. 

This is my understanding, and experience...................if you're "fired" it's not a positive way to leave an employer. 

What does it mean to dismiss someone?
 
 
To dismiss is defined as to send someone away, or to disregard an idea or treat something as unworthy of consideration. ... When you fire an employee, this is an example of a situation where you dismiss the employee.

 

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We should genuinely be making more of this 1,000 fans in the ground issue. It's borderline scandalous. There seems to be no real issue on 30%, 40%, 50% filled grounds at this point where we seem to be either moping about how sad it is fans aren't getting back in numbers we'd like, or saying f**k all.
The fans have an absolute right to know who is making these decisions, why they are being made and why the club aren't fighting tooth and nail against any decisions made on 'social distancing' guidelines given that these don't appear to apply nearly as stringently to many, many other clubs very local to us.
Fir Park will be 47% full on Saturday for their game vs Hibs...St. Mirren Park was (allegedly) only allowed to be 12% full yesterday and only 12% full a week next Saturday.
Dundee, a city that had the outright highest infection rate in Europe until only a couple of weeks ago have applied for and expect to be granted increased capacity for our match on Saturday. And rightly so, who can blame them? And again, likely no away fans.
So why is Fitzpatrick showing up on Radio Scotland yesterday sounding like a beaten man when it comes to more supporters being let in? Why are the club not publicly questioning these decisions? This was packaged up by our SLO the other day as being a social distancing issue but that's clearly not true at all. I get some grounds have more seats, exits, facilities etc, but definitely not a disparity of 12% capacity in one ground allowed vs 47% in another.
Who ever ultimately made the decision, be it SMFC or Renfrewshire Council owe the supporters a full and frank explanation. Why should we still be balloting to see who f**king gets to go to games and who doesn't when other clubs are fighting tooth and nail to get ALL fans who want a ticket through the doors?
This is the reply I have just had back from the SLO regards the shambles of 1039 for attendance last weekend. 
  Hi   just an update to let you know we have some answers to your point and just need to get some more details yet and we (slo) plan to publish some background to the principles before this weekend on our face book and twitter pages, link below.
Just had a reply from SLO too about the various points I raised on his Facebook page as per Clydebank Saint post the 2 SLO's are meeting stadium manager tomorrow after they have met with the various parties regarding the capacity so there should be some sort of clarification on after that meeting.

He sounded frustrated at lack of communication they are also receiving from club not just recently but for a while now but he was confident due to some help from board members who feel the same frustration that communication will improve sooner rather than later.

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13 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I disagree, I've NEVER heard of anyone being dismissed for being a star employee. :lol:

Also dismissal is very different from redundancy.

Many people are made redundant, the term "dismissed" is never used in theses instances. 

This is my understanding, and experience...................if you're "fired" it's not a positive way to leave an employer. 

What does it mean to dismiss someone?
 
 
To dismiss is defined as to send someone away, or to disregard an idea or treat something as unworthy of consideration. ... When you fire an employee, this is an example of a situation where you dismiss the employee.

 

I’ve never heard of a star employee being made redundant. 

 

https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/dismissing-someone-fairly

 

 

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I disagree, I've NEVER heard of anyone being dismissed for being a star employee. 
Also dismissal is very different from redundancy.
Many people are made redundant, the term "dismissed" is never used in theses instances. 
This is my understanding, and experience...................if you're "fired" it's not a positive way to leave an employer. 
What does it mean to dismiss someone?     To dismiss is defined as to send someone away, or to disregard an idea or treat something as unworthy of consideration. ... When you fire an employee, this is an example of a situation where you dismiss the employee.  
In legal terns, dismissal covers redundancy too, which is why I never argued the point. My point is that "sacked" is a layman's term not a legal one as he originally claimed. Also, dismissal is usually used with a qualifier, as I pointed out. In layman's terms, you wouldn't use "dismissed" to describe a redundancy you would use it to describe a "sacking", i.e. a dismissal for doing something wrong. Unless "sacked", "sacking" etc are used in law his whole point is moot.
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2 minutes ago, Slarti said:
35 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
I disagree, I've NEVER heard of anyone being dismissed for being a star employee. emoji38.png
Also dismissal is very different from redundancy.
Many people are made redundant, the term "dismissed" is never used in theses instances. 
This is my understanding, and experience...................if you're "fired" it's not a positive way to leave an employer. 
What does it mean to dismiss someone?     To dismiss is defined as to send someone away, or to disregard an idea or treat something as unworthy of consideration. ... When you fire an employee, this is an example of a situation where you dismiss the employee.  

In legal terns, dismissal covers redundancy too, which is why I never argued the point. My point is that "sacked" is a layman's term not a legal one as he originally claimed. Also, dismissal is usually used with a qualifier, as I pointed out. In layman's terms, you wouldn't use "dismissed" to describe a redundancy you would use it to describe a "sacking", i.e. a dismissal for doing something wrong. Unless "sacked", "sacking" etc are used in law his whole point is moot.

Which is pretty much what I said. :lol:

I'm out. :byebye

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Sacked means dismissal. Your probably correct that legally they will have used the term “Dismissal” rather than the aggressive verb sacked.
However dismissal covers many avenues of being sacked. Redundancy is one of them. Check out the ACAS webpage for guidance.
Being dismissed/sacked does not necessarily mean you have done something wrong. 
Being "dismissed" does not mean you have done something wrong, being "sacked" does (at least in this context, not as in, for example, putting something in a sack).
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4 minutes ago, Slarti said:
37 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
I disagree, I've NEVER heard of anyone being dismissed for being a star employee. emoji38.png
Also dismissal is very different from redundancy.
Many people are made redundant, the term "dismissed" is never used in theses instances. 
This is my understanding, and experience...................if you're "fired" it's not a positive way to leave an employer. 
What does it mean to dismiss someone?     To dismiss is defined as to send someone away, or to disregard an idea or treat something as unworthy of consideration. ... When you fire an employee, this is an example of a situation where you dismiss the employee.  

In legal terns, dismissal covers redundancy too, which is why I never argued the point. My point is that "sacked" is a layman's term not a legal one as he originally claimed. Also, dismissal is usually used with a qualifier, as I pointed out. In layman's terms, you wouldn't use "dismissed" to describe a redundancy you would use it to describe a "sacking", i.e. a dismissal for doing something wrong. Unless "sacked", "sacking" etc are used in law his whole point is moot.

I conceded the sacked term technically being legal. Sacked in the dictionary means being dismissed.

Citizen Advice “Being sacked from your job can come as a huge shock and it often feels unfair. The legal term for being sacked is ‘dismissal’

When you are made redundant you are dismissed from your employment.

I agree the term sacked and dismissed tends to be used for a misdemeanour. However the legal letters that i have seen advise of a redundancy meaning a dismissal.

ACAS state that a dismissal could be a redundancy 

I’m also out

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IF Saint Mirren had managed to get more than the 1035 v PT at £12.00 a pop requiring more staff to police things then they would have had to have the same arrangements for a game where they would be getting nothing extra. And for further games until all restrictions are lifted. They have our cash. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas. I believe the reduced numbers suited the club in the longer term so they had no reason to question the decision.
If so, does that not smack of "screw the fans"?
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I'd imagine that "sacked" isn't mentioned in law, it would be "dismissed".  If you can point to the relevant law, I'll happily admit I was wrong.
 
Sacked, to me, is a layman's term for being dismissed for doing something wrong.
 
"Dismissed" generally means that you've done something wrong and it's usually stated, e.g. "Dismissed for gross misconduct".
Danny Lennon... Right or wrong? Description of situation?
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