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58 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Just out of interest are there any St Mirren fans 'for' colt teams in the format we're likely to get them? In other words OF with maybe Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts at a later date?

Difficult to answer when we're not sure about the format. Surely colt teams per se would be desirable? I'm a bit remote over here but is it seriously being suggested that colt teams are being promoted by the old firm only and therefore would benefit only the old firm? I can't see that. Would provincial clubs not be cutting off their face to spite their nose if they voted against any proposal.

 

 

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I'm agin Colt teams being involved in the main League set-up.

They were unsuccessful on the field in last season's CC cup and didn't attract significant crowds.

The proposals, as I understand them, would only benefit two teams - unless the OF are willing to pay a significant amount of money to balance this then Saints should have nothing to do with this. 

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Don't need Colt Teams in any of the 4 Leagues. 

Have Reserve Teams in Reserve Leagues.  Simple. 

The 40 Football Clubs should be trying to rid Scotland of Celtic and Sevco. 

Not add 2 more of their sectarian vile Teams. 

f**kEM 

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1 hour ago, RickMcD said:

Difficult to answer when we're not sure about the format. Surely colt teams per se would be desirable? I'm a bit remote over here but is it seriously being suggested that colt teams are being promoted by the old firm only and therefore would benefit only the old firm? I can't see that. Would provincial clubs not be cutting off their face to spite their nose if they voted against any proposal.

 

 

This is off the top of my head Rick. I am sure I can come up with more reasons if I put my mind to it.

1. There have been complaints of too many Clubs in Scotland (42) in senior football and not enough support. Now the suggestion is we increase the number of Clubs - potentially by 17 ie the number of Clubs in the Development League? If all these Clubs submit teams then they end up at the bottom in a League of their own competing against each other - so no change then from what is currently happening.

2.However if admission to a new League setup is due to wealth then where is the fair play? Sevco's U20 team has been shit for the last few years (this season was a decent one for them finishing 6th) so they can gain entry not on their U20 League position but due to the fact they have handfuls of dosh? The rich get richer.

3. Many community Clubs like Spartans have been trying unsuccessfully to join the League setup. Spartans provide facilities for around 1000 people every week to participate in sport yet OF teams just waltz in?

4. The OF rarely bring guys from their Development teams into their first teams. Even when Sevco were playing in League 3 they used experienced players instead of their U20 squad. Few U20 OF players ever make it to the first team whatever way it is presented.

5. In last year's League Cup the U20 teams were pumped out after their first game to incredibly low attendences. The public do not want to watch Colt teams play real teams.

6. Many Clubs rely on loan players from U20 squads. With colt teams playing that would dry up.

No-one has provided one decent argument for Colt teams. It's all about wealth and power and expanding their brand and nothing to do with football.

 

Colt teams can f**k off.

Edited by Sonny

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Another point I forgot to mention. Their argument is that playing competitive football will help the development of their colt players.

Eh?

So who are these full-time, cream of the crop, U20 players in Scotland playing against? They are playing against part-timers in the lowest two Leagues in Scotland, many of whom will be of a similar age to themselves as teams at the lower end of the Leagues tend to play many young players as they cannot afford to pay older players looking for a decent wage.So where is the development?

And say if Celtic won League One but could not get promoted and we were second but did get promoted would that feel like we were Champions? Or opposition fans rightly giving us stick claiming we were not Champions and could not even beat a Colt team?

Edited by Sonny

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

This is off the top of my head Rick. I am sure I can come up with more reasons if I put my mind to it.

1. There have been complaints of too many Clubs in Scotland (42) in senior football and not enough support. Now the suggestion is we increase the number of Clubs - potentially by 17 ie the number of Clubs in the Development League? If all these Clubs submit teams then they end up at the bottom in a League of their own competing against each other - so no change then from what is currently happening.

2.However if admission to a new League setup is due to wealth then where is the fair play? Sevco's U20 team has been shit for the last few years (this season was a decent one for them finishing 6th) so they can gain entry not on their U20 League position but due to the fact they have handfuls of dosh? The rich get richer.

3. Many community Clubs like Spartans have been trying unsuccessfully to join the League setup. Spartans provide facilities for around 1000 people every week to participate in sport yet OF teams just waltz in?

4. The OF rarely bring guys from their Development teams into their first teams. Even when Sevco were playing in League 3 they used experienced players instead of their U20 squad. Few U20 OF players ever make it to the first team whatever way it is presented.

5. In last year's League Cup the U20 teams were pumped out after their first game to incredibly low attendences. The public do not want to watch Colt teams play real teams.

6. Many Clubs rely on loan players from U20 squads. With colt teams playing that would dry up.

No-one has provided one decent argument for Colt teams. It's all about wealth and power and expanding their brand and nothing to do with football.

 

Colt teams can f**k off.

I've changed my mind - Welcome The Colts!

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3 hours ago, Sonny said:

Maybe SMiSA should ask their membership about Colt Teams and submit a reply to the SFA?

I asked David Nicol about it on Twitter last night and he said he'd definitely be consulting the fans.

Had to laugh at a Celtic fan claiming colt teams would stop other clubs relying on loan players and they'd have to develop their own. That's the same Celtic who've had a couple of guys on loan from Man City in recent seasons.

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Difficult to answer when we're not sure about the format. Surely colt teams per se would be desirable? I'm a bit remote over here but is it seriously being suggested that colt teams are being promoted by the old firm only and therefore would benefit only the old firm? I can't see that. Would provincial clubs not be cutting off their face to spite their nose if they voted against any proposal.
 
 


The consensus is only OF will be able to realistically afford Colt teams with maybe Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs coming in. They wouldn't be allowed promotion by league 1. So for me I feel it'll make a mockery of that league if they get to a place where they're always top 2. If that happened you could potentially see 6th place team getting promoted.

Also would mean they would swallow up even more promising youngsters from other clubs to feed the colts. Fans are against it as well and they don't bring crowds which is another issue. I would never pay to watch a Colt team play my first team (even in challenge cup)

Also there's the issue where if of ever o league to England or Atlantic league they keep a foothold here and make us look like even more of a joke league than we already are.

The only way I would even think about it is if the deal was sweetened with a bigger top flight and the other leagues either put together or made bigger. A league of 10 with 2 colts is a joke.

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And if they can get promoted from league 2 to league 1 they deny a real team access to higher income damaging local clubs 


You'd only end up with League One being half Colt teams, no doubt in the top half and unable to be promoted. You then have the ludicrous situation of a team in 6th being the first team eligible to go up, but you can't really go with that. Retain the youth leagues, have larger professional leagues (allowing room to blood youth) and ditch the Project Brave nonsense.

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You'd only end up with League One being half Colt teams, no doubt in the top half and unable to be promoted. You then have the ludicrous situation of a team in 6th being the first team eligible to go up, but you can't really go with that. Retain the youth leagues, have larger professional leagues (allowing room to blood youth) and ditch the Project Brave nonsense.

 

Edit to add that the SFA and no doubt the media bleat on about "oh, other nations do it". In Germany the reserve teams can't get beyond tier 3, there are 36 clubs above that level. In our league system there are 22 above that level, with tier 3 only having 10. In Spain the reserve team can't play in the same tier as their first team, last season I believe only Seville had their reserves in tier 2 and there's 22 teams in that level, 20 in the top flight. So, 42 clubs before the vast majority of reserve teams come in at the 4 group third tier and each of those have 20 sides so they're split amongst 80.

 

Ach, hit quote instead of edit.

 

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Scottish football certainly is not big enough to accommodate colt teams. As mentioned, it would make a mockery of our game and if they proved to be better placed in the league at the end of the season than the remaining pack, it could end up opening up a promotion chance for league one teams sitting in the bottom half.
Whats wrong with continuing to loan players to other clubs? It happens all over the world and SPL clubs including the bigot brothers have various amounts of loanees, so what is the issue.

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4 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

I see one of the German 4th tier leagues are struggling for a 20th club and have invited China's under 20s. Surely Rangers Colt team could just go over there.

Why stop at the colts? Why not the whole club? Stolen stadium, training ground and all!

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As said above, great points about the size of our leagues. Colts just can't work in such small division.

Seems to me fans have wanted bigger leagues for a long time yet the only way colts may remotely work (increasing the size of the divisions) isn't even being discussed. Reason for that is obvious, all spfl and SFA care about are their precious 4 old firm games in the league a season.

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On 25/05/2017 at 4:18 AM, bud77 said:

I hope the club are against this, of the teams mentioned in the original post 4 out of the 5 were involved in the talks, how many players can they say have come through their youth team and went on to play consistently for the 1st team ? How many of them have then went on to become mebers of the Scotland squad ?

 

Yet a club like St Mirren who have half their team brought through the youth ranks and had John McGinn and Kenny McLean go on to make the Scotland squad weren't involved with the talks. Malky MacKay should have been down at Ralston listening to the Saints telling him how it's done instead of turning round telling us this is how it should be done.

Bring back the reserves league, let the promising youngsters play against men.

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