Dibbles old paperboy Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I do think there is a stewarding and policing issue here that the club need to try and get a grip of. Namely, 2000 Celtic fans stand, set off flares, sing questionable songs and no action taken. A few Aberdeen or ICT fans stand at the back of the away stand and are removed... one St Mirren fan shouts "Free Palestine" and Celtic security staff are instigating having them arrested. When Celtic fans invade the pitch during goal celebrations no action taken. There does seem to be one rule for teh Old Firm and one for everyone else and we shouldn't stand for it in our own ground and when we fork out so much to pay for stewarding and policing costs. Having said that, if we think it is wrong for the Old Firm fans to sing about Ireland, Ulster, the Queen, the Pope, King Billy, the Irish famine and terrorist organisations it does seem a bit hypocritical to say it is OK for us to shout about Israel and Palestine when it is not as if we have a player or staff directly involved in their situation. I'd much rather see us leave politics and the misrepresentation of religion left out of our songs and chants and back our own team positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 We do leave politics, religion, and stuff out of our songs. One guy shouts one thing in a single isolated incident? Nothing to see here, move along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 But mate... why did he shout free palestine at a St Mirren Celtic Scottish football league game??? Bizarre. Kayal is an Arab-Israeli who gave DSS the thumbs up in the tunnel area during the recent Scottish Cup game at St. Mirren Park. I believe the real question is why does a member of Cetic security have the police at his beckon call. If Kayal has been offended by this expression of free speech then he will have to appear in court as a witness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 So Celtic now show up, take over our own ground in our town, set up camp in half the place and behave how they hell they want, bring their own security forces with them and have anyone who does anything they don't like disappear not be seen again??? Aye, does sound a bit like Palestine now you mention it. Free the West Bank One!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I do think there is a stewarding and policing issue here that the club need to try and get a grip of. Namely, 2000 Celtic fans stand, set off flares, sing questionable songs and no action taken. A few Aberdeen or ICT fans stand at the back of the away stand and are removed... one St Mirren fan shouts "Free Palestine" and Celtic security staff are instigating having them arrested. When Celtic fans invade the pitch during goal celebrations no action taken. There does seem to be one rule for teh Old Firm and one for everyone else and we shouldn't stand for it in our own ground and when we fork out so much to pay for stewarding and policing costs. Having said that, if we think it is wrong for the Old Firm fans to sing about Ireland, Ulster, the Queen, the Pope, King Billy, the Irish famine and terrorist organisations it does seem a bit hypocritical to say it is OK for us to shout about Israel and Palestine when it is not as if we have a player or staff directly involved in their situation. I'd much rather see us leave politics and the misrepresentation of religion left out of our songs and chants and back our own team positively. Something to be taken up with the club by the fans council, perhaps? About the arrest, I can't understand why the guy would shout 'free palestine', but nor can I understand why they would have an issue with it, given their past hijacking of the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony A Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Why would anyone want to shout that at a St Mirren, or any, football match? Go to demos, sign petitions, but keep it, and anything else like it, out of St Mirren Park. Don't agree with him being lifted at all but there's no need to be saying things like that at a football game. Let's keep the politics outside of football grounds please. I'm not saying he should have been arrested if all he has said is FREE PALESTINE. However, please inform your friend if he would like to shout pish like this, kindly f'k off and do it elsewhere. It has nothing to do with St Mirren FC and don't understand why someone would shout that during a football match in the Scottish Premier League. Have to admit, my first reaction was why the f**k would you shout that at a st mirren game. Hate it when our fans lower themselves the the Old Firms level. I don't know hss but why on earth would you shout about that at a saints game, get a grip But mate... why did he shout free palestine at a St Mirren Celtic Scottish football league game??? Bizarre. All of the above are 100% spot on. St. Mirren fans can't on one hand moan about the behaviour of other supporters inside a football stadium especially the chants and songs they sing and then on the other hand spout out political nonsense. Shouting out that kind of thing is Old Firm-esque behaviour at its best and the person concerned has disgraced the stripes. If you genuinely feel we're above the behaviour of other supporters then f*****g act like it and if you're not prepared to do so go and support some other shite. F**k the Old Firm. F**k Glasgow bigotry and Come on you Saints!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reborn saint Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I feel a bit sad reading this thread. I don't condone political chants at any football ground but given what's been said regarding his age and sobriety what was wrong with simply ejecting him from the ground?.....That's the way It used to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjerseybuddie Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Would he have been arrested if he had shouted " free pies" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Would he have been arrested if he had shouted " free pies" ? If he had a mate called Stan, that would have been a good shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 An ancient Buddie who posts on here - DSS - was arrested because of intervention by Celtic officials for shouting FREE PALESTINE. I was going to shout FREE NELSON MANDELA, but the hospital said he'd not be out and about til next week mibbe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I was going to shout FREE NELSON MANDELA, but the hospital said he'd not be out and about til next week mibbe... Unfortunately under the laws now in place you may have been handcuffed at the ground, put in a police vehicle and taken to Mill Street where you would have been charged, had your fingerprints taken, had your photo taken, had the inside of your mouth swabbed for their DNA records, and held for three and a half hours before being released with no paperwork telling you what you have been charged with. That, fellow buddie, whether you disagree with what DSS shouted or whether you believe free speech should not be expressed within a football ground, is what happened. This, I believe, is the 2012 law used today against a person shouting "Free Palestine". http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/law/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill If you had shouted "Free Nelson Mandela" between 1962 - 1990, when Mr. Mandela was in prison, you would have escaped prosecution. Shouting "Free Palestine" today gets you arrested by the Paisley police. The police will say they are following the laws passed by the Scottish Government. This is not a new excuse used by people with power. Adolf Eichmann was one of the most prominent Nazis to use this defense at his trial (held in Israel in 1961). “”I cannot recognize the verdict of guilty. . . . It was my misfortune to become entangled in these atrocities. But these misdeeds did not happen according to my wishes. It was not my wish to slay people. . . . Once again I would stress that I am guilty of having been obedient, having subordinated myself to my official duties and the obligations of war service and my oath of allegiance and my oath of office, and in addition, once the war started, there was also martial law. . . . I did not persecute Jews with avidity and passion. That is what the government did. . . . At that time obedience was demanded, just as in the future it will also be demanded of the subordinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's a lovely story. But you seem to be avoiding telling everyone why he actually made a political statement inside a football ground! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's a lovely story. But you seem to be avoiding telling everyone why he actually made a political statement inside a football ground! Are you saying that is against the law? If, as we draw nearer 18th September 2014, some folk shouted "Independence for Scotland" we should allow the police to arrest them without us making comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 And again for clarity.... Why did he decide that he would shout a political statement at a football match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy coco Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Free speech or not, religion and politics should be kept away from football or at least st mirren park as a boy 30 years ago i went to love street every saturday with my best mate (my next door neighbour), but when it came to monday morning we had to go to different schools which used to piss us both off, whether the FREE PALESTINE chant was a joke or not, keep that shit away from our club, it makes me proud that our fans dont go down the HULLO HULLO or HAIL HAIL chanting many of the old squirm wannabees sing, it makes me proud as f*ck to be a buddie,,, COYS,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted March 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Given that no one but desperately seeking Susan's can see inside his mind nor know what he was thinking at the time and thus be able to speak for him, your persistence is baffling, davej...? And I'd see it as less a political statement than as an aspiration of human rights. Is that a heinous crime, in your book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 And again for clarity.... Why did he decide that he would shout a political statement at a football match? You would have to ask him. And again for clarity....If, as we draw nearer 18th September 2014, some folk shouted "Independence for Scotland" we should allow the police to arrest them without us making comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPar72 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 General Nonsense for this surely, nothing to do with football or St Mirren. The guy shouted to get a reaction, and he got one. Right or Wrong...what was he doing, surely given the non-award of the penalty on the whistle, his shouting should have been directed at Bobby Madden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Given that no one but desperately seeking Susan's can see inside his mind nor know what he was thinking at the time and thus be able to speak for him, your persistence is baffling, davej...? And I'd see it as less a political statement than as an aspiration of human rights. Is that a heinous crime, in your book? Persistence? I asked a question, it was blatantly ignored, I asked it again. I'm not suggesting its a crime in my eyes. Tho it would seem the letter of the law states it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony A Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 General Nonsense for this surely, nothing to do with football or St Mirren. Either that or just delete it. The whole sorry affair is a disgrace to the Club's name when we should be riding on the crest of a wave after becoming the current holders of the Scottish League Cup for the first time in our beloved Club's history, not having supporters put themselves in a position where they can be nicked by the rozzers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 You would have to ask him. And again for clarity....If, as we draw nearer 18th September 2014, some folk shouted "Independence for Scotland" we should allow the police to arrest them without us making comment? So, for two guys who know every detail of the incident, right down to the fine details of what took place in the station... Neither of you know why he did it in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Seems like a massive over reaction to me and quite frankly is a hugely hypocritical action by he police, a waste also of time and resources. What kind of PC nanny state are we living in ffsake. Easier to pick one guy out of a crowd and possibly prosecute him than deal with a traveling support comprised of ingrained sectarian and political bollox I suppose. This whole sorry episode is cringeworthy on so many levels. Ok, whilst we are on it, I called Neil Lennon a prick today as he played to the knuckeldragging masses as his man received a red card. Does my verbal outburst infringe or offend anyone's dignity ? Maybe if a steward had decided my behaviour broke rules of behaviour I should consider myself lucky not to have been ejected of worse, cuffed. What a sorry old shambles going to football matches is becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 And I'd see it as less a political statement than as an aspiration of human rights. Is that a heinous crime, in your book?Call it what you will, chosing to declare it at a football match in Paisley is something I don't want to hear or read about. Neither do I want to hear people declaring support for independence or anything else. Leave it at the turnstyle and remember you're at a football match. The "freedom of speech" angle is flimsy at best. Why someone would elect to exercise their freedom of speech rights about Palestine at a St Mirren match is mystifying as is using freedom of speech as a defence for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 So, for two guys who know every detail of the incident, right down to the fine details of what took place in the station... Neither of you know why he did it in the first place? Perhaps, as Kayal is an Arab-Israeli, DSS believes he has an ally for his beliefs. It's how DSS expresses his support for the people of Palestinian who he believes have been let down by others. And again for clarity....If, as we draw nearer 18th September 2014, some folk shouted "Independence for Scotland" we should allow the police to arrest them without us making comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 So, for two guys who know every detail of the incident, right down to the fine details of what took place in the station... Neither of you know why he did it in the first place? Never heard of geo political Tourette's then.........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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