Next St Mirren Manager

[JM1]

County finishing 5th is the greatest achieved by any club in modern era

[TsuMirren]

:

I did have to chuckle at that too. The owner has a bit of cash and didn't need to splash silly levels to move past the majority of top flight teams. Just looking back at the quotes from Calderwood, he mentions "expectations of fans". Why couldn't he have stated cuts were needed, but we're looking to build a club and hope the fans will come on the journey with us. Far too many managers batter on about money, whatever happened to coaching, organisation and building a team to suit your tactics.

[Dan Is The Man]

I'm in absolute despair at the current predicament. I think we've gone with Tommy for far too long and genuinely believe we're gonna struggle to come back from this. Tommy should've went after the Hamilton game and we could have gave ourselves a couple of weeks breathing space and time to find a new manager.

Now here we are with no manager and a massive game looming at the weekend and an absolute humping off Celtic just gone by. No signs off Improvement and defeat off Motherwell will leave us cut adrift. The board simply need to get this appointment right or it might just be the end of the Premiership road.

That being said getting the right manager is one thing keeping ourselves in the mix until January is another. Gilmour and the board need to dig deep and get the right players in that are gonna make up for Tommy's transfer woes. 3 strikers, all ineffective is utterly demoralising.

My thoughts on a new manager? In an ideal world for me it would always be Mixu. For now i would really settle for Caldwerwood. I dont care whether people like him or not but he has the track record but again he simply doesnt have the personnel to work with. All these people talking of Barry Smith and Billy Stark scares me. Please no!

Edited December 15, 2014 by Dan Is The Man

[El Gingero]

Why does Billy Stark & Barry Smith scare you?

[aldo_j]

Why does Billy Stark & Barry Smith scare you?

Stark has proven a few times now that he's not a good manager, ask any Morton or St Johnstone fan. His spell as U21 manager was hardly a success either.

Smith is slightly different. Managed to galvanise Dundee when they went in to administration, however, has been no great shake since. Bomber Brown managed to get more out the Dundee team than Smith....

[DougJamie]

I did have to chuckle at that too. The owner has a bit of cash and didn't need to splash silly levels to move past the majority of top flight teams. Just looking back at the quotes from Calderwood, he mentions "expectations of fans". Why couldn't he have stated cuts were needed, but we're looking to build a club and hope the fans will come on the journey with us. Far too many managers batter on about money, whatever happened to coaching, organisation and building a team to suit your tactics.

Well glad you find it funny that a village team can finish 3 places higher than we have ever done since eighties. Cause they have a little cash. Wow look at the quality they bought. Ok tell you what lets go with our tried and tested muppetts that we appoint. Fact is I watched a QOS side that could probably take 5 off us, or a misfiring Celtic team that beats us out of sight but we had a go. Geez la la land of the David Hay era returns . Celtic are crap, Rangers are crap the rest are very poor yet we are in December with 14 defeats. So yes lets go with Teale, I mean he wants the job after all, cause fact is , if he left he could not get a game for Morton. Or even Thommo, who is a legend, Eh just like Fitzy and look how he turned out.

Instead of w^nkers coming on here and laughing, make a worthwhile suggestion , or just do what most losers do, shout from behind the wall.

I have suggested 2 names Butcher and Adams, I would take either in a heart beat, cause they are both far better than any St Mirren Manager since Gus, the fact that a few on here want DL back is the bit that laughable

Edited December 15, 2014 by DougJamie

[irvine_buddie]

I'm in absolute despair at the current predicament. I think we've gone with Tommy for far too long and genuinely believe we're gonna struggle to come back from this. Tommy should've went after the Hamilton game and we could have gave ourselves a couple of weeks breathing space and time to find a new manager.

Now here we are with no manager and a massive game looming at the weekend and an absolute humping off Celtic just gone by. No signs off Improvement and defeat off Motherwell will leave us cut adrift. The board simply need to get this appointment right or it might just be the end of the Premiership road.

That being said getting the right manager is one thing keeping ourselves in the mix until January is another. Gilmour and the board need to dig deep and get the right players in that are gonna make up for Tommy's transfer woes. 3 strikers, all ineffective is utterly demoralising.

The game on Saturday is the crossroad, if we lose then it will be evident that we waited too long to sack Tommy Craig and we will have a major fight on our hands just for the playoff spot. However if Teale and Longwell can get the team in shape enough to win then we could be 10th all of a sudden.

Although the result wasn't great yesterday, Celtic played well and when they do that at home then even a very good team will struggle to make a game of it, there was certainly more promise breaking from midfield and creating chances than we have seen most of the season and than we have seen at Parkhead in a long time.

[El Gingero]

Brown had a transfer window to get Dundee's fortunes a bit better whereas Smith was thrown in at the deep end.

Stark - my memory isn't great but didn't he do ok at St Johnstone? For me Stark will always be a hero of mine as he scored in the 4-1 demolition of Dundee Utd in 1977 which was my first ever match at Love St.

[Wrong Planet]

Why does Billy Stark & Barry Smith scare you?

I share similar views to Dan Is The Man on both candidates, and certainly as far as Barry Smith is concerned I simply cannot see any business justification why his name would even be in the hat, never mind be seriously linked with the job.

Focusing on BS, as that is the one that genuinely scares me, here is his Alloa record....

. Played 30

. Won 6

. Won 1 of their last 12

. Third bottom of the Championship (8th), 1 point ahead of 9th (Cowdenbeath who have a game in hand) and 6 points behind 7th.

He did win promotion with Dundee, that's true, but was then sacked the next season with his side 15 points adrift at the foot of the table.

There has been much debate on here recently about the quality of Sports Journo's and pundits, it seems to me that Barry Smith is being linked with our job purely on the strength of turning over newRangers in the Petrofac cup.

[DougJamie]

Brown had a transfer window to get Dundee's fortunes a bit better whereas Smith was thrown in at the deep end.

Stark - my memory isn't great but didn't he do ok at St Johnstone? For me Stark will always be a hero of mine as he scored in the 4-1 demolition of Dundee Utd in 1977 which was my first ever match at Love St.

Mine to bud. Happy Days, and not a bad manager either

[irvine_buddie]

I share similar views to Dan Is The Man on both candidates, and certainly as far as Barry Smith is concerned I simply cannot see any business justification why his name would even be in the hat, never mind be seriously linked with the job.

Focusing on BS, as that is the one that genuinely scares me, here is his Alloa record....

. Played 30

. Won 6

. Won 1 of their last 12

. Third bottom of the Championship (8th), 1 point ahead of 9th (Cowdenbeath who have a game in hand) and 6 points behind 7th.

He did win promotion with Dundee, that's true, but was then sacked the next season with his side 15 points adrift at the foot of the table.

There has been much debate on here recently about the quality of Sports Journo's and pundits, it seems to me that Barry Smith is being linked with our job purely on the strength of turning over newRangers in the Petrofac cup.

Well said, it is beyond me why his name is even being mentioned, they are in serious danger of relegation. If we're just considering people on the back of being from Paisley and beating Rangers then it will be a long list.

[dakota7]

The only thing Barry Smith has going for him is that he supports us. Apart from that I would leave well alone.

[TsuMirren]

Well glad you find it funny that a village team can finish 3 places higher than we have ever done since eighties. Cause they have a little cash. Wow look at the quality they bought. Ok tell you what lets go with our tried and tested muppetts that we appoint. Fact is I watched a QOS side that could probably take 5 off us, or a misfiring Celtic team that beats us out of sight but we had a go. Geez la la land of the David Hay era returns . Celtic are crap, Rangers are crap the rest are very poor yet we are in December with 14 defeats. So yes lets go with Teale, I mean he wants the job after all, cause fact is , if he left he could not get a game for Morton. Or even Thommo, who is a legend, Eh just like Fitzy and look how he turned out.

Instead of w^nkers coming on here and laughing, make a worthwhile suggestion , or just do what most losers do, shout from behind the wall.

I have suggested 2 names Butcher and Adams, I would take either in a heart beat, cause they are both far better than any St Mirren Manager since Gus, the fact that a few on here want DL back is the bit that laughable

I've made numerous worthwhile suggestions, I just don't see the Ross County thing as a dream when there's only organisation and a few extra bits of cash between 5th and 9th in most seasons.There's also runs, confidence, players being new to the league and a whole manner of other contributing factors.

I'd take Butcher, I wouldn't touch Adams with a barge pole. If it was the start of the season I'd take Murray or even Aitken. We'd never get Davies (who wanted more money at Forest anyway), likewise we wouldn't get Clarke or anyone else recently out of decent jobs who are Scottish. Dominic Kinnear hs left Houston, Super Mo has experience, Tommy Wilson and others who've been stateside..we'd get none of them.

I don't think Butcher would come though and certainly don't want Calderwood due to him also complaining about cash. Lomas, again St J's chairman has a wee bit of money. We need someone who doesn't moan about that extra 50K, who embraces the challenge and isn't worried about the 6 month effect on his reputation or ego.

[El Gingero]

Wrong Planet - BS didn't achieve promotion with Dundee. They replaced Rangers in the SPL with very little notice after assembling a squad for the First Division not long after exiting administration. They were on a hiding to nothing. The new Dundee owners wanted their own man in Brown. I think he should be judged on getting them safe from relegation when he lost half the squad through cuts and could only field trialists for 3 games. I think Neil McCann turned out for them.

As for Alloa, I live near Alloa and read the local paper, they've been crippled with injuries this season and a lot of that has to be put down to their surface as they train on it, as well as being part time.

I'm not banging anyone's drum - just wish they would let us all know so we can get behind him - or for most of the clowns on here, get on his back before a ball is kicked.

[Wrong Planet]

Wrong Planet - BS didn't achieve promotion with Dundee. They replaced Rangers in the SPL with very little notice after assembling a squad for the First Division not long after exiting administration. They were on a hiding to nothing. The new Dundee owners wanted their own man in Brown. I think he should be judged on getting them safe from relegation when he lost half the squad through cuts and could only field trialists for 3 games. I think Neil McCann turned out for them.

As for Alloa, I live near Alloa and read the local paper, they've been crippled with injuries this season and a lot of that has to be put down to their surface as they train on it, as well as being part time.

I'm not banging anyone's drum - just wish they would let us all know so we can get behind him - or for most of the clowns on here, get on his back before a ball is kicked.

> BS didn't achieve promotion with Dundee. They replaced Rangers in the SPL.

They were in the first division. They got promoted. Therefore he did achieve promotion with Dundee. That's fact EL G. Regardless of circumstances, credit to the boy where it is due.

As has already been discussed, John Brown then turned the same broke Dundee team around, to the extent that much of our support were then shaking like a shiting dog towards the end of the season as the gap closed. And yes, I appreciate that Alloa have had injury concerns this season, but who doesn't, and more, that's exactly the excuse TC gave us. No mention of the facts that he failed to sign a CH and signed three dud strikers.

All about opinions, and I respect yours, but you asked why Barry Smith scares some on here, I've given an honest answer, together with some hard facts to back it up. As things stand he would not even be on my radar.

[Bud the Baker]

Focusing on BS, as that is the one that genuinely scares me, here is his Alloa record....

. Played 30

. Won 6

. Won 1 of their last 12

. Third bottom of the Championship (8th), 1 point ahead of 9th (Cowdenbeath who have a game in hand) and 6 points behind 7th.

What is scary about that? I'm not (Dick) advocaating hiring him but for a team like Alloa that seems to me about par for the course.

[El Gingero]

Fair enough Wrong Planet.

[Wrong Planet]

What is scary about that? I'm not (Dick) advocaating hiring him but for a team like Alloa that seems to me about par for the course.

Agree totally BtB, 100% in fact, par for the course for a team like Alloa.

What I struggle with is how 'par for the course' would get him in the dugout for St Mirren, when we are bottom on the Premiership, require some genuine ingenuity in the January window, and have 22 games to retain our top tier status.

Nothing against Barry Smith as a person, I however I struggle to see how his managerial stats to date make him a serious candidate.

[JM1]

What is scary about that? I'm not (Dick) advocaating hiring him but for a team like Alloa that seems to me about par for the course.

I'd say regardless of the team & the league that they're in, a record of winning one out of the last twelve is dreadful.

At this time last year, Paul Hartley had Alloa in 4th on 27 points, compared to Barry Smith's Alloa currently sitting in 9th on 12 points.

ETA: As a comparision, Ian Murray's similarly sized Dumbarton are currently 6th on 19 points in the same division. If Barry Smith is achieving par-for-the-course at Alloa, then Ian Murray is overachieving with Dumbarton for a 3rd season in a row.

Edited December 15, 2014 by JM1

[cambiebud]

Personally, it would be a shot in the arm, if a complete outsider got the job. We have no idea who has applied, but the one guarantee is that there will have been plenty of interest from both here and abroad. That's the nature of football. I hope SG thinks likewise and we see a manager with fresh ideas and not one hung up on the nuances of The SPL

[Sergie's no1 fan]

I'd say regardless of the team & the league that they're in, a record of winning one out of the last twelve is dreadful.

At this time last season, Paul Hartley had Alloa in 4th on 27 points, compared to Barry Smith's Alloa currently sitting in 9th on 12 points.

ETA: As a comparision, Ian Murray's similarly sized Dumbarton are currently 6th on 19 points in the same division. If BS is achieving par-for-the-course at Alloa, then Ian Murray is overachieving with Dumbarton for a 3rd season in a row.

The Championship didn't include Rangers,Hearts and Hibs last season. This season and last season are pretty much incomparable. Don't think Smith is the man for the job though. If we were to pay compo for him we'd be as well going all out and get Murray.

[Bud the Baker]

I'd say regardless of the team & the league that they're in, a record of winning one out of the last twelve is dreadful.

At this time last season, Paul Hartley had Alloa in 4th on 27 points, compared to Barry Smith's Alloa currently sitting in 9th on 12 points.

Yeah but unfortunately Paul Hartley is not available. Barry Smith wouldn't be my choice but given the composition of the Championship this season (Hearts, Hibs & Rangers ) I still think it's an acceptable record.

My point is more about what is a reasonable achievement, as the forum we've never been able to agree what is a reasonable achievement for a St. Mirren manager so it might seem a bit surreal to start discussing what is reasonable for an Alloa manager but that's just the meandering nature of threads at times.

My preferences would be Steve Aitken or Ian Murray.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bud the Baker

[JM1]

The Championship didn't include Rangers,Hearts and Hibs last season. This season and last season are pretty much incomparable. Don't think Smith is the man for the job though. If we were to pay compo for him we'd be as well going all out and get Murray.

It did include Hamilton & Dundee, two teams comfortably in mid-table in the Premiership - about the same level as Hibs, Hearts & Rangers would be IMO.

[Drew]

I'm surprised that no-one has started a poll as yet.

As I've said before, I'm still buzzing at the fact that we can even have this debate. Getting rid of Craig feels like a shot in the arm, even if we are still hurtling round the u-bend.

[pozbaird]

I'm surprised that no-one has started a poll as yet.

As I've said before, I'm still buzzing at the fact that we can even have this debate. Getting rid of Craig feels like a shot in the arm, even if we are still hurtling round the u-bend.

My personal preference is for Ian Murray at Dumbarton, but I needed to waft my fingers over the keyboard for a few moments before typing that. My thinking behind plumping for Murray is that, despite how hard it is to admit it, i think Jose Mourinho might struggle with this particular St Mirren squad - so glaringly weak are we in so many vital areas, due to dereliction of transfer window duty by both Danny Lennon and Tommy Craig.

Given my realisation that we are a poorly assembled, unbalanced squad, the likes of Butcher and Calderwood would trouble me should they be appointed and we go down anyway. Murray has to a good extent at least, cut his managerial teeth at a struggling 'Div 1' club, so if we found ourselves there again, as a young and still ambitious manager, he could be the guy to navigate us towards re-building a new St Mirren in fizzy pop land. I just can't picture Tangoman or El Tel having much appetite for budget cuts and getting down and dirty with the likes of Falkirk or Queens/Hibs etc.

In many respects, just like Danny at Cowdenbeath, St Mirren's modest budget is still a helluva' lot more to play with than Murray has at Dumbarton, and we would be an attractive proposition for him to move up a fair bit from where he currently is.

IF he kept us up, fantastic, but if we go down, I'd fancy him to be the right man to stick with us and be our manager in a league he already knows.

Edited December 15, 2014 by pozbaird