buddiecat Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I've heard much the same last week. Didn't want to post it but crumbled when pished I fear for us. gary teale in the sun on saturday stated , we had the strikers firing shots on goal in training and had an argument with the goalkeeping coaches because they didnt want the keepers having shots fired in at them,make of that what you will,i'm no football coach but i'd think it good training if strikers are firing shots at experienced spfl keepers and keepers are facing hard shots (i intentionally didnt state that the shots were from experienced spfl strikers) i suggest that in training it would be best if we work with our top keepers facing shots from all our first team squad and then giving feedback on what was good and bad about what they faced and how it could be improved on,then do similar work on defenders,once we've got our striking sorted (even if that means new strikers or promotion for strikers from the development team) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 gary teale in the sun on saturday stated , we had the strikers firing shots on goal in training and had an argument with the goalkeeping coaches because they didnt want the keepers having shots fired in at them,make of that what you will,i'm no football coach but i'd think it good training if strikers are firing shots at experienced spfl keepers and keepers are facing hard shots (i intentionally didnt state that the shots were from experienced spfl strikers) i suggest that in training it would be best if we work with our top keepers facing shots from all our first team squad and then giving feedback on what was good and bad about what they faced and how it could be improved on,then do similar work on defenders,once we've got our striking sorted (even if that means new strikers or promotion for strikers from the development team) We've now also got outfield players being asked why they pulled out of 50/50's in training. Now told to give it their all in the tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Whit? He was previously the assistant, just like Tommy. Therefore he wasn't new at the club, and he still got 11 months. He never got a full season, but he got 2 transfer windows. 11 months is the shortest any Saints manager has had under this board. To suggest Tommy will go 2 months into a season? Madness. Lost the argument? Haha. You say Tommy will be gone by October, I say he won't be sacked by November the 1st. I'm willing for a charity to benefit from this wee disagreement. Are you? whit? (see, i can do that to) you keep making my point for me lex. The coughlin situation was not the same, there is no precedent for craig's position you are trying to use precedent to back up your argument when there is no precedent we've never had a manager before who was previously assistant for 3 years then got the job at the start of a season we've never had a manager who has lost all first 5 games of a season! as for the bet, can someone not give an opinion without you jumping up and down asking them to put money on it? that's playground stuff as for madness, the real madness was making Craig the manager in the first place to keep him in the job any longer would only compound it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 gary teale in the sun on saturday stated , we had the strikers firing shots on goal in training and had an argument with the goalkeeping coaches because they didnt want the keepers having shots fired in at them,make of that what you will,i'm no football coach but i'd think it good training if strikers are firing shots at experienced spfl keepers and keepers are facing hard shots (i intentionally didnt state that the shots were from experienced spfl strikers) i suggest that in training it would be best if we work with our top keepers facing shots from all our first team squad and then giving feedback on what was good and bad about what they faced and how it could be improved on,then do similar work on defenders,once we've got our striking sorted (even if that means new strikers or promotion for strikers from the development team) The bit about keepers sounds ludicrous. Are they Jessies? Can maybe see why shooting full power from inside the six yard box mightn't be all that clever but apart from that they should get peppered with shots at some point in the schedule and the harder the better. Does the manager not occasionally tell the keeping coaches to shut the f**k up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Och well............... Internal appointment made on a wing and a prayer. Tbh no -ne even TC or the board could have imagined just what a pathetic start we 've made as a club this season. However, simple facts are that from the top down, there is now the inevitable, totally predictable stagnation about us , in team terms, in fan terms and entire management terms. What is sad is that I don't think that many Saints minded folk are too surprised.This has been a slow burner, but finally, has come to fruition. All been documented and visited by others on here , the dis affected fans, the confused players, the selling Bod. The weakest SPL for ages, how ironic, we have turned to this season with a first team missing at least four key positions. No spine to the team, our best players are in goal and a young midfielder who we are rapidly sickening. The rest have moved and thrive elsewhere.................. Still, can only get better, might take some hard work on the training ground, some luck in front of goal, erm, what else is there in the book of bollox cliches....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Whit? He was previously the assistant, just like Tommy. Therefore he wasn't new at the club, and he still got 11 months. He never got a full season, but he got 2 transfer windows. 11 months is the shortest any Saints manager has had under this board. To suggest Tommy will go 2 months into a season? Madness. Lost the argument? Haha. You say Tommy will be gone by October, I say he won't be sacked by November the 1st. I'm willing for a charity to benefit from this wee disagreement. Are you? Not that I disagree with you but precedents are there to be broken, I remember SG saying TH had the safest job in Scottish football a week or so before the Inverness game that prompted his departure. IIRC the only two seasons we have lost money during the present BoD's tenure were when we had to pay up Hendrie and then Coughlin's contracts so if the Board were to go that way it would be an apocalyptic outcome and I don't see how you could get rid of TC on his own. surely JG & GT would have to go to - mucho, mucho Wonga! Still I've been wrong at this predictorating lark before...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Not that I disagree with you but precedents are there to be broken, I remember SG saying TH had the safest job in Scottish football a week or so before the Inverness game that prompted his departure. IIRC the only two seasons we have lost money during the present BoD's tenure were when we had to pay up Hendrie and then Coughlin's contracts so if the Board were to go that way it would be an apocalyptic outcome and I don't see how you could get rid of TC on his own. surely JG & GT would have to go to - mucho, mucho Wonga! Still I've been wrong at this predictorating lark before...................... Don't necessarily agree that JG and GT would also go if Craig went, they still have playing contracts and have only just been appointed as coaches. When you look at the fixture list, it is very possible that we could have no points from our first 9 games by the start of October, as after Friday we have Celtic, then Aberdeen and St J away. Even Alex Ferguson wouldn't survive that start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Don't necessarily agree that JG and GT would also go if Craig went, they still have playing contracts and have only just been appointed as coaches. When you look at the fixture list, it is very possible that we could have no points from our first 9 games by the start of October, as after Friday we have Celtic, then Aberdeen and St J away. Even Alex Ferguson wouldn't survive that start. I agree. I don't see why JG and GT would also need to go. Indeed, if money is the issue, it would be one of these 2 or Steven Thompson who should get the job IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Don't necessarily agree that JG and GT would also go if Craig went, they still have playing contracts and have only just been appointed as coaches. When you look at the fixture list, it is very possible that we could have no points from our first 9 games by the start of October, as after Friday we have Celtic, then Aberdeen and St J away. Even Alex Ferguson wouldn't survive that start. IIRC Lennon's departure was announced on the Monday, Craig's appointment as manager on the Tuesday with Goodwin & Teale player coach deals on the Wednesday - essentially they were promoted as a group. Two of the gripes with TC are that he was Lennon's assistant and must bear some of the responsibility for what went wrong when Lennon was in charge and that he (TC) has very little experience of being top dog (sic) both of which would apply in spades to JG & GT if Craig went. I don't see how sacking TC improves the situation other than as a temporary sop to the more bloodthirsty amongst us - although as I've said there comes a time when the unthinkable will be thought.............. I agree. I don't see why JG and GT would also need to go. Indeed, if money is the issue, it would be one of these 2 or Steven Thompson who should get the job IMO. Logical choice would be GT who hasn't played a full 90 minutes in approaching a year............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Why is GT the logical choice? If you sack a manager with little management experience then why replace him with someone with no experience? Most guys setting out on their first management job learn their trade in the lower leagues. Far too much pressure on GT and ST to suddenly give them the task of pulling us from the gutter and improving the team with no experience. History shows many good footballers failing at being managers. Now and again it can work but it tends to happen when they get time and in this day and age they no longer have that luxury. Edited September 16, 2014 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Why is GT the logical choice? If you sack a manager with little management experience then why replace him with someone with no experience? I was replying, slightly tongue in cheek, to The Capn's suggestion that we could promote from within as a cheap option, I'd already pointed out that Teale had no experience earlier in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I agree. I don't see why JG and GT would also need to go. Indeed, if money is the issue, it would be one of these 2 or Steven Thompson who should get the job IMO. If it was Thompson and not TC in our present dilemma would you and others be screaming for his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think it's too early to sack a manager, even Ross County, who have done so , only seemed to use poor results as an excuse to get rid of somebody they had wanted rid of anyway so it made sense to sack him before results turned around. The problem for TC seems to be that nobody can see him turning it around and that's partly because there is so much not going right. Kello has had a few wobbles, naismith & cheesy are off form, all our collective excitement at keeping McGinn and McLean now looks a bit silly as neither has played to their potential and our new strikeforce maybe flattered to deceive pre-season as it seems they couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Then you gat all these rumours floating about that the training regime is old fashioned and the players aren't buying into it (though TC's coaching was supposed to be the reason we got NUFC and Man City players on loan). and to top it all God is out for another 12 weeks. How does anybody turn all that around? Last season Danny was saved at this time by an enforced reshuffle, but it seems bizarre to wish further injuries on your team. So......too soon to sack him but defeat on Friday will loosen the peg his jaiket hangs on as it's followed by Aberdeen and Celtic. Good Luck TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I was replying, slightly tongue in cheek, to The Capn's suggestion that we could promote from within as a cheap option, I'd already pointed out that Teale had no experience earlier in the post. St. Johnstone have a recent history of giving the job to guys with no or little managerial experience - mostly with success. Derek McInnes had no experience as a manager when St. Johnstone promoted him, Steve Lomas had no senior level managerial experience before St. Johnstone appointed him and Owen Coyle's only experience was as a stop gap co-manager with John Hughes at Falkirk for a few months. Davie Hay is a classic example of a very experienced managerial appointment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 gary teale in the sun on saturday stated , we had the strikers firing shots on goal in training and had an argument with the goalkeeping coaches because they didnt want the keepers having shots fired in at them,make of that what you will,i'm no football coach but i'd think it good training if strikers are firing shots at experienced spfl keepers and keepers are facing hard shots (i intentionally didnt state that the shots were from experienced spfl strikers) i suggest that in training it would be best if we work with our top keepers facing shots from all our first team squad and then giving feedback on what was good and bad about what they faced and how it could be improved on,then do similar work on defenders,once we've got our striking sorted (even if that means new strikers or promotion for strikers from the development team) Buddiecat for Manager! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Buddiecat for Manager! someone said earlier that there could be no worse appointment than tc replacing danny,you've just proved them wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad saint 2 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 just sums everything wrong at our club strikers not training to score goals and keepers not saving shoots what a f......g shambles only at st mirren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 All quiet! As usual BOD remain hopeful of a miracle. Very surprised Craig remains at the helm. Totally wrong appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 St. Johnstone have a recent history of giving the job to guys with no or little managerial experience - mostly with success. Derek McInnes had no experience as a manager when St. Johnstone promoted him, Steve Lomas had no senior level managerial experience before St. Johnstone appointed him and Owen Coyle's only experience was as a stop gap co-manager with John Hughes at Falkirk for a few months. Davie Hay is a classic example of a very experienced managerial appointment! ...............and yet you're always quoting how GM's record as a manager was better than Coyle's - btw I agree with you on this one, one good aspect of the Fakes managerial policy is that these guys with a profile as players in England have more chance of being poached and generating some compensation for the club. For all that it appears to be going a bit tits up at the moment there was some decent reasons for choosing TC in May - continuity you'd have imagined the new managerial team would know exactly what weaknesses we had and the speed of the appointment which meant we could start looking for replacements straight away and unlike many of the suggestions I don't think it'll have been the cheap option. My main gripe with the change was GT as player-coach as I didn't think he deserved to be retained as a player after last season and although this may be reflected in his new contract I shudder to think that we may be paying a top salary to a 36-y-o who has not played a full game in approaching a year and missed the majority of last season through injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McCracken Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 ...............and yet you're always quoting how GM's record as a manager was better than Coyle's - btw gus is another example of a great manager who had no prior experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 gus is another example of a great manager who had no prior experience! Yeah and look where experience has taken him................. ******************** As I've said previously I reckon the budget has been spent and lacking a sugar daddy owner like Ross County we're faced with the same choices as last season when we sorta sleepwalked our way to safety.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) gus is another example of a great manager who had no prioyxperience! Alex Ferguson, Jock Stein, Bill Shankley were 'great' managers winning the top prizes. Gus was a decent manager but a great manager? Edited September 18, 2014 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie-dee Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) gus is another example of a great manager who had no prior experience! that's funny...... Gus and Great Manager in the same sentence Edited September 18, 2014 by stevie-dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) that's funny...... Gus and Great Manager in the same sentence He was a great manager for us - look at where we were when he took over and where we were when he left. The problem with him is that he was inflexible and when sussed it was a case of diminishing returns. The same could be said of Danny Lennon and Tom Hendrie who I thought were more culpable of trying to force round pegs into square holes as results deteriorated Edited September 18, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irvine_buddie Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 If we lose on Friday, then it's Celtic at home and then Aberdeen away. Very possible that we will be 8 games in to the season with 0 points. We would already be chasing an uphill battle just to stay in touch for 10th. That would surely be a sackable offense for any manager even though we are not a sack happy club. The thing about strikers not shooting into keepers in training is ridiculous if it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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