Looking On The Bright Side

[oaksoft]

I've been approached by a number of clubs in the past, all asking me to scout for them.

You can't buy this kind of quality statement.

[nedflanders123]

I've never played Football Manager so I wouldn't know if it is realistic or not - I would assume not, in the same way that other games are not realistic representations of war zones etc.

So, what you are describing is not a "proper" scouting system, I'm glad you see that. You can have lots of contacts throughout the game without having a proper scouting system.

As for the rest, well, I'm going to go and ask that shopkeeper in east Lothian if you are telling the truth.

I'd be willing to bet that the only person that's ever asked you to scout was this guy.

I would retract that last part mate. Not even funny and put to g yourself in a dangerous place. It takes personal slight too far.

[Stuart Dickson]

I've never played Football Manager so I wouldn't know if it is realistic or not - I would assume not, in the same way that other games are not realistic representations of war zones etc.

So, what you are describing is not a "proper" scouting system, I'm glad you see that. You can have lots of contacts throughout the game without having a proper scouting system.

As for the rest, well, I'm going to go and ask that shopkeeper in east Lothian if you are telling the truth.

I'd be willing to bet that the only person that's ever asked you to scout was this guy.

You claimed that the best St Mirren could hope for was some ex player or a friend of the manager calling the club to tell the club about players they think might do St Mirren a job. I've shown how clubs that operate in the lower leagues of Scottish football on a fraction of the annual turnover of St Mirren manage to have a great deal more success in recruiting players from the juvenile ranks and selling them on at huge profit.

Embarrassingly for you the kind of Community programmes that I made passing reference to in the post you quoted, are exactly the kind of intel networks used by clubs in the Bundesliga, Portugal and in Belgium where youth recruitment and progression is being highly praised by experts in the game at the moment. But then I suppose the likes of Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Anderlecht, Sporting Lisbon and Bayern Munich know nothing about proper Scouting Networks.

Never mind though at least your last post proves one thing - you have a far greater knowledge about paedophiles in Scotland than I do. Well done.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Lord Pityme]

You claimed that the best St Mirren could hope for was some ex player or a friend of the manager calling the club to tell the club about players they think might do St Mirren a job. I've shown how clubs that operate in the lower leagues of Scottish football on a fraction of the annual turnover of St Mirren manage to have a great deal more success in recruiting players from the juvenile ranks and selling them on at huge profit.

Embarrassingly for you the kind of Community programmes that I made passing reference to in the post you quoted, are exactly the kind of intel networks used by clubs in the Bundesliga and in Belgium where youth recruitment and progression is being highly praised by experts in the game at the moment. But then I suppose the likes of Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Anderlecht, and Bayern Munich know nothing about proper Scouting Networks.

Never mind though at least your last post proves one thing - you have a far greater knowledge about paedophiles in Scotland than I do. Well done.

The 'scouting networks' you explain operating in the Bundesliga are not as you say. Having played for a club in bundesliga 2 i can tell you with some authority the system that provides most of their young talent is their own boys/girls teams right the way down to primary aged kids. Everyone at the club is part of the club! i didnt play in the first team, but i was still part of it, trained with them, looked after by club physhios, all the teams coaches were paid/trained by the club and licensed by the DFB and that was twenty five years ago. Any promising youngsters playing for another local side soon found their way into the club set up.

This incidentally is what has been happening at SMFC for a few years now, and has given us a raft of Scotland U20's to Youth team call ups. Disproportinate to the size of our club.

[Stuart Dickson]

The 'scouting networks' you explain operating in the Bundesliga are not as you say. Having played for a club in bundesliga 2 i can tell you with some authority the system that provides most of their young talent is their own boys/girls teams right the way down to primary aged kids. Everyone at the club is part of the club! i didnt play in the first team, but i was still part of it, trained with them, looked after by club physhios, all the teams coaches were paid/trained by the club and licensed by the DFB and that was twenty five years ago. Any promising youngsters playing for another local side soon found their way into the club set up.

This incidentally is what has been happening at SMFC for a few years now, and has given us a raft of Scotland U20's to Youth team call ups. Disproportinate to the size of our club.

According to the ECA Report on youth development Bayern Munich have only 20 players out of 185 current youth players who were recruited in the way you describe - through Training Days and recruited in from the age of 8 years old. According to the ECA Report Munich used to have a different structure which it found wasn't working. They sent their coaches to see how Ajax operated and they redeveloped it. I don't know when you played in Germany but German youth development changed radically over the last 15 years.

For the record the same ECA Report says that Ajax scouting network has 70 scouts working for them. That's FOUR paid professionals and 66 volunteers. Startibartfast would claim that's not a "proper scouting network" but then what success has Ajax ever had when it comes to developing youth players

[Stuart Dickson]

If you are trying to claim that is their (Dortmund etc) main form of scouting then you are deluded - oh, wait a minute ...

You have been proven to be a liar on here many, many times. Why would anyone believe anything that you say regarding anything, as you seem to lie about everything.

Still attempting deflection as a tactic, I see. It doesn't work.

I'll refer you to the ECA Report - lets use Ajax as an example

[Edinbuddie]

Dicko is the new Gordon Ramsay - mercilessly lampooned on 'Off the Ball' for his unlikely and unsubstantiated claims about his football career.

I remember when Dicko tried to explain what had gone wrong defensively for Celtic when Isma scored our first goal in the League Cup semi. It was so superficial, shallow and incorrect, that most 10 year old boys with much derided Football Manager experience would have laughed at it.

I met Jose Mourinho on holiday in Portugal once. He asked me to set up a Scotland wide scouting system with me as Chief Scout and offered a 6 figure wage with bonuses and all expenses. I turned him down because I'm too busy.

See, it's easy to make stuff up.....I actually met him in Spain

[div]

Seems a thread that was an attempt at lifting the mood a bit has gone a bit wrong

I will be pissed off if/when we are relegated but it won't be the end of the world. Every club has ups and downs and to be honest with a hardcore following of 3,000 fans I think we've done ok. 10 years of top flight football on the spin, a Scottish Cup semi final, two League Cup Finals and a major trophy win hasn't been too bad over that last decade.

I expect once our fate is known that we will hopefully see some movement on the sale. That is the primary thing that needs sorted IMO. We need new life, energy and ideas about the place, regardless of what league we are in.

[Stuart Dickson]

Old habits die hard, eh? Proving my point for me. They have four (I said a few) professional (I said they would be paid a salary) scouts who, I would assume cost them at the very least £25.000 a year in salary and expenses, which takes the cost into 6 figures (like I said). That's a minimum and doesn't even include all the other scouts expenses. It would be logical to also assume that they pay these guys because they do the most work, have the best results and/or have the final say and therefore are the main part of their scouting system. If you know different (although I know you don't), please enlighten us all with your wisdom.

Out of curiosity, what part of my post above did you actually disagree with?

Where does it say their wage in that report? It doesn't even say the professional scouts are full time. You're just making it up again.

Of course a club like St Mirren would not need the same scouting network as Ajax - nor would they need to be able to afford it. Indeed they could simply have a number of volunteers handing in reports to the Head of Youth Development. As I've pointed out it works for clubs with far smaller operating turnovers than St Mirren in lower divisions who don't have the same levels of grants paid to them because their organisations are not deemed to be "Elite" despite being more successful.

[DougJamie]

And all above is looking on the brighter side Geeeez.

I still blame the Tories!!!

[shull]

On the bright side, I can log off and not read aw the shite above.

[Stuart Dickson]

Of course it doesn't mention their salary, it's a report about youth academies, not the annual accounts of Ajax.

But that actually raises another point. That report with the 4 professional coaches etc is only talking about recruiting youngsters to the academy, not about scouting any senior players - unless you are going to tell me that they don't do that. So that's more expense.

Of course I was making it up, that's why I used the word assume a couple of times. There's a huge difference between stating that you are making a logical assumption (like I do) and just claiming that things you've just pulled from thin air are facts (like you do all the time).

So, you are saying that St Mirren would not need a "proper" scouting system? Unless you are saying that Ajax don't have a proper scouting system?

Even part time, the professional scouts would probably cost over £25,00 each per year in salary and expenses.

You're ranting on here trying to prove me wrong about something and you haven't a f**king clue what you are trying to prove me wrong about. I've said it before and I'll say it again - you're a f**king idiot.

You also forgot about the expenses mentioned in the paragraph after the one you showed - did this one not back up your argument.

Capture.PNG

Where is expenses mentioned? The article specifically states that because the Netherlands is a small country Ajax can generally sign Dutch nationality players without the need for a club residence.

There is no mention made of how they fund the recruitment of foreign nationals from places like Cape Town or Scandanavia. Presumably it's through having volunteers living and operating within those regions but it could also be that they do like St Mirren do and rely on players agents handing them DVD's of their players. You are making assumptions way beyond that of the report yet we know that St Mirren did not have scouts operating at Manchester City, Newcastle United or Gatehead because the club doesn't have any scouts, volunteer or otherwise.

Again though - the point being made is extremely simple. Queens Park can operate a scouting network, as can Dundee United, as can Hamilton Accies, as can Motherwell, as can Hearts, as can Morton, as can Queen of the South, as can Clyde, Alloa, Albion Rovers and Falkirk. Why do you think St Mirren can't?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[DougJamie]

Where is expenses mentioned? The article specifically states that because the Netherlands is a small country Ajax can generally sign Dutch nationality players without the need for a club residence.

There is no mention made of how they fund the recruitment of foreign nationals from places like Cape Town or Scandanavia. Presumably it's through having volunteers living and operating within those regions but it could also be that they do like St Mirren do and rely on players agents handing them DVD's of their players. You are making assumptions way beyond that of the report yet we know that St Mirren did not have scouts operating at Manchester City, Newcastle United or Gatehead because the club doesn't have any scouts, volunteer or otherwise.

Again though - the point being made is extremely simple. Queens Park can operate a scouting network, as can Dundee United, as can Hamilton Accies, as can Motherwell, as can Hearts, as can Morton, as can Queen of the South, as can Clyde, Alloa, Albion Rovers and Falkirk. Why do you think St Mirren can't?

Queue the Monty Python "Is this the right room for an argument " sketch

[Drew]

Queue the Monty Python "Is this the right room for an argument " sketch

I was going to suggest Slabberyratbag and SDD get a room!

[pozbaird]

Seems a thread that was an attempt at lifting the mood a bit has gone a bit wrong

I will be pissed off if/when we are relegated but it won't be the end of the world. Every club has ups and downs and to be honest with a hardcore following of 3,000 fans I think we've done ok. 10 years of top flight football on the spin, a Scottish Cup semi final, two League Cup Finals and a major trophy win hasn't been too bad over that last decade.

I expect once our fate is known that we will hopefully see some movement on the sale. That is the primary thing that needs sorted IMO. We need new life, energy and ideas about the place, regardless of what league we are in.

I applaud your efforts Div to lift the mood, I really do.

Relegation will be shite. Sorry.

[Stuart Dickson]

Again, of course it doesn't mention expenses, it's A f**kING REPORT ABOUT YOUTH ACADEMIES. If you think it all costs nothing then you are deluded .. oh, wait a minute, we've been here before.

There is also no mention of how they fund the players lunches/strips/boots/anything. Do you think that because it doesn't mention it in that report then it all costs nothing?

If you regard a "proper" scouting system as getting boys clubs coaches to give you a call when they think they see some promising kid, and not much else, then you're an idiot - again, been said before.

You don't have a clue what you are arguing about and are just trying to go round in circles until you can find one thing that you can "prove" me wrong about, even if it means that you have made an arse of yourself regarding 20 or 30 other things in the process.

How much would you assume that each of the 4 professional scouts cost in salary and expenses? Never mind expenses or finders fees for the other scouts, never mind their overseas scouting, nothing else, just they 4 guys. As a clue, in Q3 2012 the average wage in the Netherlands was just over £30,600 per annum, the minimum wage in January 2014 was just over £14,800 (for a 38 hour week), but for the sake of this we could just say that they have remained the same since these dates. If their salary was half way between minimum and average they would be on about £22,700 each. Just trying to be helpful here.

Make your f**king mind up. You said in your last post

You also forgot about the expenses mentioned in the paragraph after the one you showed - did this one not back up your argument.

now you are saying that of course it doesn't mention expenses. I know you're a Scottish Nationalist but surely that doesn't excuse your inability to construct a coherent argument in English.

As for being an idiot - my argument is that there is no need for a scouting network to cost vast sums of money and I've cited examples that work at clubs at clubs with a lower annual turnover than St Mirren. Clubs like Hamilton Accies, Falkirk, Queens Park, Alloa, Clyde and Morton, many of whom have had more success in developing youth talent to play in their first team and to sell on. f**k knows what you're argument is supposed to be other than St Mirren can't afford what you call a "proper" scouting network like the one in place at Ajax which you've then gone on to argue would cost less than Marc McAuslands annual wage.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[Lord Pityme]

According to the ECA Report on youth development Bayern Munich have only 20 players out of 185 current youth players who were recruited in the way you describe - through Training Days and recruited in from the age of 8 years old. According to the ECA Report Munich used to have a different structure which it found wasn't working. They sent their coaches to see how Ajax operated and they redeveloped it. I don't know when you played in Germany but German youth development changed radically over the last 15 years.

For the record the same ECA Report says that Ajax scouting network has 70 scouts working for them. That's FOUR paid professionals and 66 volunteers. Startibartfast would claim that's not a "proper scouting network" but then what success has Ajax ever had when it comes to developing youth players

That famous german team Ajax!

But thanks for highlighting the high success rate at Bayern of 20 youth players getting a pro contract out of an in house 185 . If I was a youngster at Bayern i'd fancy my chances at those odds of just over 9/1 to get a pro gig.

[Stuart Dickson]

That famous german team Ajax!

But thanks for highlighting the high success rate at Bayern of 20 youth players getting a pro contract out of an in house 185 . If I was a youngster at Bayern i'd fancy my chances at those odds of just over 9/1 to get a pro gig.

Where did I say they got pro contracts? The report says that 20 of the 185 in their CURRENT YOUTH SET UP were recruited through training days. Whether they will make it to the point where they get pro contracts or not is anyone's guess.

Anyone wanting to read the ECA Report can find it here. It's a 164 page report but a lot of the information is broken down by team and it's interesting to see how Hearts scouting network and youth academy sizes up against the likes of Ajax, Sporting Lisbon and Bayern Munich.

[Sergie's no1 fan]

Could we get another year out of Thompson in the Championship?

[Lord Pityme]

Where did I say they got pro contracts? The report says that 20 of the 185 in their CURRENT YOUTH SET UP were recruited through training days. Whether they will make it to the point where they get pro contracts or not is anyone's guess.

Anyone wanting to read the ECA Report can find it here. It's a 164 page report but a lot of the information is broken down by team and it's interesting to see how Hearts scouting network and youth academy sizes up against the likes of Ajax, Sporting Lisbon and Bayern Munich.

Hearts have got a good set up, they keep turning out young stars.

[Lord Pityme]

Could we get another year out of Thompson in the Championship?

If he had a "Frankenstein-Esque" operation and was implanted onto McGinn's legs.... Maybe?

[Stuart Dickson]

All right, I should have said "alluded to" not mentioned, but for any normal person it would have been obvious what I was talking about. The rest of your post is just repeating the same shite again and not worth responding to.

Aye, more like you've just realised you're making a c**t of yourself. The paragraph doesn't allude to expenses at all. Infact it actually states that because the Netherlands is a small country there is NO REQUIREMENT for club accommodation!

And as I've said you entered into this debate claiming that St Mirren couldn't afford a proper scouting network and that the best a club like St Mirren could hope for was for a former player or a pal of the manager phoning in to say they've seen a player that might fit in. You've then gone on to show how what you would class as a "proper scouting system" like the one at Ajax could be set up for less than £100,000 per annum - less than the salaries of some of the St Mirren first team squad. You're argument is all over the place. My argument is more simple - that a scouting network can be set up for very little cost at all, if any. And that many clubs in Scotland already use volunteer scouts in their recruitment of youth players and that clubs that do generally have a far better record in having those players break into the first team and in getting money in when selling them on.

The only excuse for not having a scouting network at St Mirren is that either the board, the manager, or the Head of Youth Development don't want one.

[shull]

We are not in the Championship.

Ffs

[DougJamie]

I applaud your efforts Div to lift the mood, I really do.

Relegation will be shite. Sorry.

Totally agree, with a wee bit of vision and reinvestment we could easily be in this league for another 10 years, I know we are not down yet but geez this is so avoidable. Bit of communication would have been good.

[windae cleaner]

Most scouts i know are

Fecking Taxi Drivers