shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 You seem to have lost your sense of humour mate, hopefully you will find it sooner rather than later.No really, this Topic has made me pish my breeks with laughter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Relegation would increase St Mirren's reliance on youth development? Really? That didn't happen before, either when Gilmour took over the Chairmanship of the club, or when St Mirren were relegated in 2001 under Tom Hendrie. In both cases the club chose to make drastic cuts to the youth set up choosing to instead focus on bringing in a tight number experienced journeymen to make the first team squad as competitive as possible. I would imagine any decision regarding future youth development strategy after relegation would be heavily dependent on whether the youth set up could cover it's own costs in terms of sponsorship and grants. If it was seen as a cost to the club I could imagine the short term planning that St Mirren usually succuum to would see large swinging cuts and that perhaps the best that could be hoped for is that St Mirren may adopt some sort of set up akin to Falkirk in the Community rather than run an Elite Development team that has to hire buses to take players up to Aberdeen, Dundee and Inverness for youth football matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The brights side will be the acceptance that we cannot crack the Top League, that's the honest fact. Looking back on promotion in 2005 /02006 season ,we lorded it over St Johnstone, Dundee, Ross county , Hamilton, hell Partick Thistle were even in the league below us at the time. Its clear we lack the nous, the financial muscle and the accumen to sustain ourselves in the Top League, even at the end of this season , nine seasons, we've been lucky to avoid the drop before now. The Perennial top leage strugglers, that is us and its undeniable You are right, if it is about positive , honest realisation of our ambitions, then it should be to win the First Division, or Championship, or whatever re brand that follows. For me , that's way too meh. I've effectively switched off to the fortunes of the club, I feel completely dissafected by the BoD this season, the club does not seem like an inclusive entity at all, infact , post Love street, the whole club experience has gone right down the Shitter. But, that's just my take on it , I think ambitions for the club are everyone's own personal prerogative, but for me, its failure when contrasted and compared to the to other equivalent seemingly thriving provincial clubs. A lot of very good and balanced points mate. The only question I have, not directed at you but the BOD, is why other similar sized or smaller clubs are and have been successful in achieving top 6, Fakes, ICT, Motherwell etc. We had no debt but it would appear we had no strong plan to take the club forward in the way that Hamilton, Fakes and ICT have done. Over the last decade we have been running to stand still and appear to have demonstrated a lack of leadership, strategy and forward planning that should have been the starting point with a solvent club. Other clubs seem to find gems that maintain the quality of their squad; we fail to compete in this area. We did win a cup but like 87, what should have been the building blocks to take us forward, poor management and leadership produced exactly what happened after 87 poorer squad and ultimately relegation. We should at least be competing against similar sized sides but the rot set in years ago and a new start is required no matter which league we are in. Relegation will be ablow and maybe this new start should involve building for the medium term and having a squad good enough to challenge even if it means a season or two in the Championship. There is no money so there is no quick fix here like Hearts who had millions pumped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Relegation would increase St Mirren's reliance on youth development? Really? That didn't happen before, either when Gilmour took over the Chairmanship of the club, or when St Mirren were relegated in 2001 under Tom Hendrie. In both cases the club chose to make drastic cuts to the youth set up choosing to instead focus on bringing in a tight number experienced journeymen to make the first team squad as competitive as possible. I would imagine any decision regarding future youth development strategy after relegation would be heavily dependent on whether the youth set up could cover it's own costs in terms of sponsorship and grants. If it was seen as a cost to the club I could imagine the short term planning that St Mirren usually succuum to would see large swinging cuts and that perhaps the best that could be hoped for is that St Mirren may adopt some sort of set up akin to Falkirk in the Community rather than run an Elite Development team that has to hire buses to take players up to Aberdeen, Dundee and Inverness for youth football matches. The club made a conscious decision to invest in the long term strategy of Youth when we were left with a surplus following the Tesco deal. I don't imagine we will rip that all up on account of relegation. Hamilton managed to keep their youth setup blossoming in the Championship despite relegation, I fail to see why we would be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 New ownership is the only thing that will entice me back , this board have show that they're not prepared to go the extra mile to attain success in the top league , so why would I want to watch lower division pish next season if all we have to look forward to more of this season's shite ! ^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^ My ten year old compares watching us play as something kind of like real football, but its not. Now if my ten year old can see the shortfall in the game here, its not remotely interesting to him or his peers , the place really is in dire trouble. Frankly , the brightside will not shine until a feckn exorcism has been carried out at Greenhill road. Imo significant numbers in our squad have chucked it , I also believe that we have too many journeymen who dont care at this stage in their careers whether they play in the bottom of the SPFL or the next floor down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The premier league is the only show in town. Listen who cares about playing morton in a wee game nobody else is interested in bar us and morton. It's not even a game that gets more than 5,000 it's a Diddy match. We need to be in.the top tier and anyone who thinks crowds will increase is daft. Alloa,Dumbarton, Cowdenbeath etc are not going to bring anyone neither will most of the division bar hibs/rangers and Falkirk. The league is tough and I would imagine we will be one of the teams in mid table with a young team being bullied at palmerston and the like. I'm sorry but being pumped rotten by Rangers or hibs four times or going to morton for a Diddy game don't appeal. Tyncastle, Tannadice etc that is where we want to be. Also can we sustain ralston and staff on home games of 1800-2000 against the mighty alloa etc Exactly how many do RC, ICT, Fakes and Hamilton bring to away games? There is no indication as to what will happen in a lower league when we have no idea who is in that league and, more importantly, who is in our squad. No point in making statements that Hibs or Rangers will pump us as that is speculation based on what? If His don't go up they will have to cut costs, if Rangers don't then I won't lose sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A lot of very good and balanced points mate. The only question I have, not directed at you but the BOD, is why other similar sized or smaller clubs are and have been successful in achieving top 6, Fakes, ICT, Motherwell etc. We had no debt but it would appear we had no strong plan to take the club forward in the way that Hamilton, Fakes and ICT have done. Over the last decade we have been running to stand still and appear to have demonstrated a lack of leadership, strategy and forward planning that should have been the starting point with a solvent club. Other clubs seem to find gems that maintain the quality of their squad; we fail to compete in this area. We did win a cup but like 87, what should have been the building blocks to take us forward, poor management and leadership produced exactly what happened after 87 poorer squad and ultimately relegation. We should at least be competing against similar sized sides but the rot set in years ago and a new start is required no matter which league we are in. Relegation will be ablow and maybe this new start should involve building for the medium term and having a squad good enough to challenge even if it means a season or two in the Championship. There is no money so there is no quick fix here like Hearts who had millions pumped in. Nail squarely on the head there imo. It's a continual disappointment to me that we fail so reliably time after time. Its either a failure to attract the correct players in terms of ability and motivation, its a failure to continually deliver on the pitch, that dissaffetcs the core support. It's also a failure to ignite some snap and forward planning into the club. Our self promotion and publicity shy regime does us no favours either. Christ we must be the least newsworthy SPFL team in history. Something about build it and they will come, trouble is we dont seem to know what we are building and for what purpose. We're a wee team caught running from time to time with the big dogs, certainly appears to be so. It's all so Smalltown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Exactly how many do RC, ICT, Fakes and Hamilton bring to away games? There is no indication as to what will happen in a lower league when we have no idea who is in that league and, more importantly, who is in our squad. No point in making statements that Hibs or Rangers will pump us as that is speculation based on what? If His don't go up they will have to cut costs, if Rangers don't then I won't lose sleep. Ross County brought 183 ICT brought 165 first time round (don't have second time yet) St.Johnstone brought 276 Hamilton brought 265 (don't have second time yet) Average visiting support in Paisley over the league season currently is 873 but I am missing the last 2 games which will bring that number down further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northendsaint Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 New ownership is the only thing that will entice me back , this board have show that they're not prepared to go the extra mile to attain success in the top league , so why would I want to watch lower division pish next season if all we have to look forward to more of this season's shite ! Because its what we,ve done since we were in the junior supporters together 45 years ago Billy.Remember going to exotic places like Stranraer in the second division.Its bad right now but its not the worst we,ve seen.I must admit though that the older i get the harder it is to get enthusiastic about the pish we,re being served up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ross County brought 183 ICT brought 165 first time round (don't have second time yet) St.Johnstone brought 276 Hamilton brought 265 (don't have second time yet) Average visiting support in Paisley over the league season currently is 873 but I am missing the last 2 games which will bring that number down further. My point exactly Dave. Even when the big boys come to NSP we cannot fill it as the game is generally on TV. The old firm no longer come along in numbers unless they are playing a critical game. Most of the Champuo ship teams will bring bigger support to NSP, Falkirk, Raith, QOS, Hibs/Rangers and Morton if they are promoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Nail squarely on the head there imo. It's a continual disappointment to me that we fail so reliably time after time. Its either a failure to attract the correct players in terms of ability and motivation, its a failure to continually deliver on the pitch, that dissaffetcs the core support. It's also a failure to ignite some snap and forward planning into the club. Our self promotion and publicity shy regime does us no favours either. Christ we must be the least newsworthy SPFL team in history. Something about build it and they will come, trouble is we dont seem to know what we are building and for what purpose. We're a wee team caught running from time to time with the big dogs, certainly appears to be so. It's all so Smalltown It is so small town and to be honest relegation and zero progression is a self fulfilling prophecy. The BoD make it clear that every season the budget is built on finishing on 1spot above relegation so bottom line that's as good as it gets. All the talk of top 6 finishes is fantasy and it's a shame Danny Lennon was made a scapegoat. We need a more bullish strategy and clear targets for the BoD and all the coaches. if they don't measure up then they need to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Its a forum Shull, we are bottom by 4 points, 7 points away from safety with 8 matches to go, its hardly defeatist mate, its reality, or of course we could beat Celtic 4-0 again and then win next seven to finish on 45 points- is that better??Aye, sense at last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Because its what we,ve done since we were in the junior supporters together 45 years ago Billy.Remember going to exotic places like Stranraer in the second division.Its bad right now but its not the worst we,ve seen.I must admit though that the older i get the harder it is to get enthusiastic about the pish we,re being served up. 100% spot on. The world has moved on. Customers expect more and that includes feeling engaged. The football is poor and the club can't be bothered to communicate. Total neglect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Exactly how many do RC, ICT, Fakes and Hamilton bring to away games? There is no indication as to what will happen in a lower league when we have no idea who is in that league and, more importantly, who is in our squad. No point in making statements that Hibs or Rangers will pump us as that is speculation based on what? If His don't go up they will have to cut costs, if Rangers don't then I won't lose sleep.We're not even in it. Ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The club made a conscious decision to invest in the long term strategy of Youth when we were left with a surplus following the Tesco deal. I don't imagine we will rip that all up on account of relegation. Hamilton managed to keep their youth setup blossoming in the Championship despite relegation, I fail to see why we would be any different. There's a number of noticeable differences. For example Hamilton Accies Youth Development set up is not "elite" therefore there is no requirement for the same long distance journeys. Hamiton Accies also have a Tigerturf pitch which can be rented out to the public on non matchdays, and perhaps more significantly to their many different boys and girls Community Youth Football teams across many different age groups which play in the local leagues and are funded by players subs. Perhaps the St Mirren board will learn from their mistakes of the past and this time find a way to structure their costs to continue to support youth development at the club, but their previous track record doesn't point to this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 NSP x 2 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisleysaint Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Its a sad day that we are accepting relegation Too many passengers at the club earning a wage rubbish in the form of Arquin, Wylde, Ball, Kello, Reilly the list goes on and on. The managerial appointments this season have killed us. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years and if the same excitement will be shared in a few years time! Only time will tell if we can stay up and what the future holds but one things for sure a clearout is required immediately and a decent manager is a certainty. Edited March 23, 2015 by paisleysaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A decent Manager is required now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's hard to look on the bright side of a total eclipse until the object of the blackout moves on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A decent Manager is required now. Gary must stay. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I can releate to that. It's a real shame that all the great work this BOD have done for the club over the years is being tarnished by the way it's all ending. I've no idea if relegation will expedite the sale of the club or make it even harder to sell, but it needs to be moved on as soon as possible as the general feeling of malaise among hardcore supporters is running very deep. When you stop enjoying going to the football and start dreading it then something is far wrong. Div, agree with you on this - however what great work of our BOD, yes ok looking into the archives, no doubt they saved us, but I also remember SG saying, no debt, training ground, new stadium , all great stuff however. What about on field, what about reward and ambition. Last time I looked I paid the same to watch my beloved Saints, but what am I watching now, free agents with 5 month contracts, who could not tell you anything about the team they play for, GT who has been dropped in it. KM. I want a product that shows me they care. This year has been different from the off. TC/DL left a bad taste, losing first 5 without scoring a goal, TC making stupid comments or not as case was. JG carry on, Gary getting no help, losing KM at last min of transfer window. Its remarkable we have 21 points, also lets not forget, the worse Home Record in the history of the Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastlandssaint Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 We have 4 games against our nearest rivals that could turn things around so I have not completely given up hope but I take Div's point about being realistic. The thing that has got to me the most over the last decade is the simple fact we have not moved up a gear. Other diddy clubs have came up and went on to better things while we continually scrap away at the bottom. One home win in almost a year is a joke. And the reason for that is simply that we are stuck on a rudderless ship with no leadership nor interest from those in charge. While this situation continues I reckon we would be fighting relegation for the next 20 years (and maybe 20 years to our next Home win!). So if relegation finally gets the current BoD out and brings in fresh impetus, ideas and leadership then maybe that is the price that has to be paid and in the long term is the best thing for us. But one way or another the Club must be sold quickly or every season will be Groundhog season trying to avoid the drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hope the players don't read this Thread or Kemp's Championship one from yesterday or we will be right in the shitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm generally a very positive person, and try very hard to be positive about the football club at all times, but being realistic now the automatic relegation spot looks increasingly likely to be our fate. So let's look ahead to what life in the Championship will be like and look for some positives there.There are a lot of negatives too of course, but there are still some silver linings to relegation, it's not the cliff face it once was. Personally I'm struggling to see any kind of brightside to this. Apart from the continual series of poor decisions which did the club no favours at all, the wall of silence aimed at the fans from the club was a disgrace in my opinion. To me this simply appears to be taking the fans for granted, and treating them with a lack of respect. Obviously people can make mistakes and not every decision the club makes is going to be the right one, but I would never have believed the club would treat its fans in this manner. I can't see any excuse for that and also think it has done the club serious harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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