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Bud the Baker

Brexit Negotiations

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2 hours ago, Seaside Nipper said:

What a total shambles, a complete charade this whole Brexit exercise is.

I lost about an hour of my life watching the carnival of Freaks last night, the House of Commons Live

PM Teresa 'my deal' May, a remainer, takes all the flak and public ridicule continues to constantly contradict herself, clearly for the ruse, the agenda driven end game

Then we have European grey suits, desperate for the UK to stay

Democratic vote of the country binned

Politicians at Westminster shown up as inept and self seeking ( as always )

End game = likely to be kept in a failing European super state

Why vote , why expel energy on the futility of voting to reinforce a corrupt ineffective two party system that simply self perpetuates through utter ineptitude

Politicians eh ? No wonder they are despised

 

Is there not the risk that we leave and end up in an even worse situation by forming closer ties with the US?

I don't know what the answer is, but the pattern I keep seeing is that if you reject one form of globalism, those in power move towards it in another form 

EU superstate, US deal with questionable food standards... hmm :unsure:

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42 minutes ago, Doakes said:

Is there not the risk that we leave and end up in an even worse situation by forming closer ties with the US?

I don't know what the answer is, but the pattern I keep seeing is that if you reject one form of globalism, those in power move towards it in another form 

EU superstate, US deal with questionable food standards... hmm :unsure:

Firstly, there is no EU Superstate.

Secondly, the spivs behind Brexit are indeed driving the country to "closer ties" to the US - i.e removal of consumer protections provided by the EU, and the destruction of the NHS to force the miserable American private health model on us. Going to deliver excellent dividends for Rees Mogg and his chums.

It is a miserable future, but one that can be avoided by Scotland taking independence, protecting our rights, and rejoining the most successful trading bloc in the world.

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2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Firstly, there is no EU Superstate.

Secondly, the spivs behind Brexit are indeed driving the country to "closer ties" to the US - i.e removal of consumer protections provided by the EU, and the destruction of the NHS to force the miserable American private health model on us. Going to deliver excellent dividends for Rees Mogg and his chums.

It is a miserable future, but one that can be avoided by Scotland taking independence, protecting our rights, and rejoining the most successful trading bloc in the world.

You don't think the overall aim of the EU is to create a superstate? 

If a majority voted remain, that was the mandate to form it 

 

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I may add that the British nationalists who wrap themselves in the flag and see this a great victory for British sovereignty would do well to take note that your Brexit puppeteers have been over in Italy working with actual fascists in the Liga Norte to veto any Article 50 extension. These were the people previous generations fought and died to keep out of Britain, now you are handing the country to them.

Now they want May out as PM as well, and one of their weasels in. Brexit was never enough for them, they want a shift to the hard right so they can begin the systematic destruction of British institutions for profit, and open the doors to US-style privatisation. 

And people were thick enough to vote for it!

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3 minutes ago, Doakes said:

You don't think the overall aim of the EU is to create a superstate? 

If a majority voted remain, that was the mandate to form it 

 

The EU doesn't build its mission around English public opinion.

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11 hours ago, antrin said:

 

OF COURSE, WE COULD YET HAVE CORBYN WIN AN ELECTION...

Yes , l think he is due to do that the same year Saint Mirren FC win the treble  .

THERE ARE PROTESTERS IN LONDON CONSTANTLY, TOO.  

EVERY WEEKEND IN LONDON THERE’S A DEMO OF SOME SORT OR OTHER. IT’S DEMOCRACY APPARENTLY. PEOPLE THINK IT WORKS. I BELIEVE EDINBURGH HAS ITS FILL OF MARCHES, TOO?

Yeah , I'm not talking about a few students waving placards , I'm talking about actual mass protests of ordinary folk . You wont see that on the BBC

I DON’T RECALL BEING TRICKED.

The vote was in 1975 and in 1976 they announced the European parlaiment . How many of those yes votes would have been still yes if they had been honest in 1975 . .yes tricked. Compulsory Euro membership is next along with a European army

THINKING THAT EUROPE WOULD CRUMBLE DUE TO BRITS BEING NO LONGER ABLE TO AFFORD PROSECCO OR CARS... IS DAILY MAILISH, IN THE EXTREME.

I said that they(not the Brits) wouldn't want their exported goods with duty on them , you altered the meaning of the sentence. I have never read the Daily Ma*l in my life and haven't read a newspaper in a looong time. .

 

 

 

I think Charles de Gaul was right when he said that GB would be incompatible with the Common Market and  that GB could get cheap food from all parts of the world . .l don't think he read the Daily M*il either

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kemp said:

Firstly, there is no EU Superstate.

Secondly, the spivs behind Brexit are indeed driving the country to "closer ties" to the US - i.e removal of consumer protections provided by the EU, and the destruction of the NHS to force the miserable American private health model on us. Going to deliver excellent dividends for Rees Mogg and his chums.

It is a miserable future, but one that can be avoided by Scotland taking independence, protecting our rights, and rejoining the most successful trading bloc in the world.

Hmmm, Super State, whatever, generally a collection or union of smaller states or countries, so its all a bit potato potatoe , tomaytoe tomahto, hay hoh,  a trading bloc then, a group of economies or countries that form a trading cabal.............mere semantics......EU or whatever your preferred reference, federation, whatever, matters not…………………personally I prefer House of Cards.

When you dwell on this on one level for a moment, think of what has gone on in UK politics for a couple of years now, it’s like a form of insanity to think that the UK Parliament is bending itself out of shape to 'not leave ' this club of economic arrangements'. A club incidentally whose collective currency is doomed to fail and appears to be a union formed initially with a reasonable trading expectation ( if remember my Modern Studies ) but now exists as nothing more than a club who's mission statement is to set up and generate a race to the bottom. This club is sinking, undeniable; it is merely the rate of fall that varies depending on what member’s problems spike up, or what next grasping country is allowed membership. It is a right ol cluster f**k, yet I suppose when the ECB can just pump out gazillions on request to prop up this club, it’s all somehow ok again.

SPIV’s, dunno, by implication, someone not too trustworthy (???) yet maybe so then, if they are if they are going to destroy the NHS...that’s a rude plan. I do not know that implying that Rees Mogg is a SPIV is too nice either. I'd propose that Lord Snooty was far more appropriate a moniker for the pencil thin pin striped aristo. Fyi, SPIV's I would suggest are very likely to be found in Brussels or Strasbourg. As a  self-preservation society, I can think only the EU is a bigger one than our Governments Parliamentarians !? 

If the future is miserable then maybe we should look to do our own thing and manage our own affairs............................................................aherm, by joining a this 'super state '

Oh wait.........................I've just seen the future :zipit

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So parliament voted to extend article 50 tonight.

This means the brexit secretary has to go to Brussels and negotiate an extension that he just voted against.

What a f**king farce.

 

In more positive news Liam Fox has announced he's negotiated trade deals with Fiji and Papua New Guinea.

Good times!

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9 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

So parliament voted to extend article 50 tonight.

This means the brexit secretary has to go to Brussels and negotiate an extension that he just voted against.

What a f**king farce.

 

In more positive news Liam Fox has announced he's negotiated trade deals with Fiji and Papua New Guinea.

Good times!

You can't have a people's vote on the deal but May deal can be voted on three times. THREE TIMES.

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1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

You can't have a people's vote on the deal but May deal can be voted on three times. THREE TIMES.

In March last year Donald Tusk offered May a "Canada-style" free trade deal and May turned it down .  We need shot of her rapid , May to be gone by April. .

Certainly not democracy anymore

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21 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Sick of the whole f**king saga and the sheer incompetence, arrogance and f**kwittery shown by this weak government.

I think that is exactly what they are aiming for , wear us all down , drag the whole think out to say 2022 and just hope that it all blows over and nothing changes. .

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11 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said:

I think that is exactly what they are aiming for , wear us all down , drag the whole think out to say 2022 and just hope that it all blows over and nothing changes. .

If Europe knocks back extra time then parliament is put into a corner with only one deal possible. Would not BE  surprised if this is the tactic in play in conjunction with the EU. 

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If Europe knocks back extra time then parliament is put into a corner with only one deal possible. Would not BE  surprised if this is the tactic in play in conjunction with the EU. 
Only takes 1 out of 27 to knock it back?
Arron Banks and his other crooked pals were over in Northern Italy last week meeting with representatives of the fascist Italian regime so they look likely to say no to extra time along with their counterparts in Hungary.

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14 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

So parliament voted to extend article 50 tonight.

This means the brexit secretary has to go to Brussels and negotiate an extension that he just voted against.

What a f**king farce.

 

In more positive news Liam Fox has announced he's negotiated trade deals with Fiji and Papua New Guinea.

Good times!

Coconuts for all!

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2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

If Europe knocks back extra time then parliament is put into a corner with only one deal possible. Would not BE  surprised if this is the tactic in play in conjunction with the EU. 

Yes an extension will probably get knocked into a cocked hat , which may force May oot then they can go for article 64 of the Vienna convention and knock May's "deal". .WTO and GAAT24 can then be put in place . The ball is in our court as Europe sell a lot more to us than we sell to them , we are their best customer but you would think the shoe was on the other foot with May who is perhaps now worse than Tony Liar the war criminal. .

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These two letters from today's Herald sum up the joke that is Westminster. They still do not realise that Britain is no longer a world power with a subservient Empire.

 

May to ask Brussels for Brexit delay

"ONE wonders if Schadenfreude is right at this moment? Bring on a no deal, even by default, and the advocates of Leave will face the political consequences of their decisions and votes.

Indeed, a great deal of personal hardship will follow, but this is what the archaic and now-atrophying UK political and constitutional system has led to, no deal and no direction. The threats are self-inflicted this time.

All the flummery, pomp, faux mystique and uncritical reverence has masked the creaky systems of government in the first-past-the-post system. Add to that the plethora of arcane precedents, conventions and Erskine May guidelines set for an aristocratic landowning class of MPs, and add the current "Mayist" antics of repeat tabling of rejected motions, then the system is now dysfunctional on a grand scale. Blend in the personal incompetence of key ministers from the Prime Minister downwards, and chaos ensues.

So what will bring the upholders of this auld creaking Union to their senses? North of the Tweed the rejection of it has already begun, but south of the Tweed the reverence for the fundamental system has yet to be seriously challenged.

 

No deal might just kick the complacency out of their introverted mindset, having been fed a diet of jingoistic Rule Britannia for the last 200 years.

Schadenfreude, perhaps, but the system cannot continue on its old ways patched up here and there with jerry-built methods and manipulated chicanery.

John Edgar"

 

"WHAT is it about a woman who has set her face against a second referendum as a betrayal of democracy, yet insists on bringing back time and time again to the floor of the House her massively flawed and twice-massacred Withdrawal Agreement?

Her hope is that she will win this war of attrition with the cliff edge of March 29 looming, thereby stampeding the Brexiters to abandon their hope of a no deal Brexit, which is now off the table, and to support her egregious deal.

So a dead woman walking could capitalise upon a loss of nerve by Brexiters, fearful that a lengthy Article 50 extension will mean No Brexit at all, and will be able to walk away with head held high and her legacy secure in that her deal will have gained enough votes to be passed.

Her fear of being categorised as a failure will then have been removed and she could then safely retire to write her memoirs as the woman who would not take no for an answer.

She would happily leave others to clear up the mess and confusion that she compounded to the nth degree after David Cameron's tragic initial miscalculation.

Denis Bruce"

 

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I may add that the British nationalists who wrap themselves in the flag and see this a great victory for British sovereignty would do well to take note that your Brexit puppeteers have been over in Italy working with actual fascists in the Liga Norte to veto any Article 50 extension. These were the people previous generations fought and died to keep out of Britain, now you are handing the country to them.
Now they want May out as PM as well, and one of their weasels in. Brexit was never enough for them, they want a shift to the hard right so they can begin the systematic destruction of British institutions for profit, and open the doors to US-style privatisation. 
And people were thick enough to vote for it!



I agree with most of this except the last line. May, Boris, Rees-Mogg etc claim to know what people voted for but they have no idea. Did the 17 million who voted leave want no ties to Europe? Some ties to Europe or what? Only sensible way to find out is to ask them. If The PM believes her deal is what they voted for in 2016, then ask the people. Surely given another go, given what is on offer, a healthy majority would vote to remain?

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MV3 - Rees-Mogg starting to wobble...............

Quote
  • Rees-Mogg hinted that, if the DUP could be persuaded to back May’s deal, he would back it too. Stressing that he had not yet made up his mind what he would do, he said:

I’m waiting to see what the DUP will do. The deal is still a very bad deal. It doesn’t deliver on the promises of the Conservative party manifesto, and it doesn’t deliver on the referendum result in full.

The question people like me will ultimately have to answer is, can we get to no deal instead? If we can get to no deal instead, that is a better option. It means that we will have left, and that we will have restored our nation’s independence.

But I’m concerned that the prime minister, in spite of her previous commitments, is determined to stop no deal, that she has come to the conclusion that it is either her deal, or some form of remaining. I think a two-year extension is basically remaining in the European Union. So those are the considerations people have to think through.

If we can get to no deal, that would be the best option.

  • He said he and other ERG members would back May’s deal if they concluded there was no chance of getting no deal as an alternative. He explained:

I think many people think that this Brexit is better than a Brexit denied, but that they think we can still get to no deal. As long as people think we can still get to no deal, they will vote the deal down. And that’s my position too. So the debate is really, is no deal still realistic?

 

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