Speculation Thread

[Ayrshire Saints 4,082]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.

now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.

there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.

its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.

last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.

what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....

that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

Perhaps you should offer your services to the club seeing as you have the system sussed and it is so easy.  It's amazing how transfers turn in to protacted sagas when it is so simple even at the top clubs. At the risk of also sounding like a stuck record there is far more than money to consider when deciding where to ply your trade, it's nowhere near as simple as you make out !!!

[turrabuddie 1,396]

Its not a bigger gamble, its a racing certainty that if you don't pay the going rate for a decent player you will be relegated!
re your last bit about better players, I think that was Oaky's point, not mine. That said, i would agree that on paper at least our signings of Lyness, Andreu and Djorkaeff are below the standard of others signings.
Lyness i get, we needed a No2 keeper, or cover when Hldaky goes (which, mark my words will be in this window), Andreu is thise season's Donatti, or Gow, and Djorkaeff is a complete unknown quantity. Hope he dazzles us, we will know two weeks tomorrow!

Are you ITK re Hladky being sold this window, or just got a gut feeling ?
If we are selling him will it be too late for JG to reinvest those funds I the team ?

[melmac 873]

Well, Qarabag are through to the next round of the Champs League qualifiers so they may yet come calling again.  Playing Dundalk next week so they could well advance past them.

[smcc 1,152]

2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.

now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.

there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.

its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.

last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.

what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....

that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

The fact that you appear not to know the difference between "neglect" and "reflect" explains a lot of your ramblings.

[Lord Pityme 6,721]

49 minutes ago, turrabuddie said:

Are you ITK re Hladky being sold this window, or just got a gut feeling ?
If we are selling him will it be too late for JG to reinvest those funds I the team ?

I am in the KFA camp, its a gut feeling he'll go in the window.

[Lord Pityme 6,721]

10 minutes ago, smcc said:

The fact that you appear not to know the difference between "neglect" and "reflect" explains a lot of your ramblings.

That is a stunning contribution to the debate!

well done you, well done. Now enjoy your evening..!

[Sweeper07 3,979]

19 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Even before we take players on a trial camp or invite them over, the agreement should be in place with their signature on it - then we know we can add ours or not rather than going so far in futility.

You clearly have absolutely no idea how employment contracts work. No player is EVER going to enter into that sort of arrangement. The Jim McLean era ended 30 years ago ffs. Trials are as much for a players peace if mind as the clubs. Football has moved on clubs simply cannot hold players to ransom these days like you are suggesting.

So we take 3 players to our training camp "on trial" and there is no point in doing the up front discussions on wages and add-ons, length of contract etc, and whether they will accept what we are thinking of offering?

1 out of 3 signed and we paid for travel accommodation for 2 of them for squat.

Same with the Dutch lad - come on over at our expense. 

Does not sound to me like we have any control - it is just miraculous that Andreu thought our deal was ok then?  

Do you believe our BOD are doing things perfectly well?

[aldo_j 2,058]

43 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

So we take 3 players to our training camp "on trial" and there is no point in doing the up front discussions on wages and add-ons, length of contract etc, and whether they will accept what we are thinking of offering?

1 out of 3 signed and we paid for travel accommodation for 2 of them for squat.

Same with the Dutch lad - come on over at our expense. 

Does not sound to me like we have any control - it is just miraculous that Andreu thought our deal was ok then?  

Do you believe our BOD are doing things perfectly well?

How do you know we didn’t have the upfront discussion with Longridge and Miller? We probably did, then decided they either weren’t right or offered a deal that wasn’t of interest to them.

So the Dutch lad came over for a day on an EasyJet flight. Again, big deal. It’s all part and parcel of trying to sign players. It’s hardly as if we flew him over on a private jet.

[Eric Arthur Blair 5,661]

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.

Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

[Transfer news 63]

48 minutes ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.

Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

I agree. However King came from Bolton reserves at the age of 23, Kpekawa failed to hold down a place in the same division that Carroll was a regular starter and Heaton was average in the league below Hylton

[Eric Arthur Blair 5,661]

2 minutes ago, Transfer news said:

I agree. However King came from Bolton reserves at the age of 23, Kpekawa failed to hold down a place in the same division that Carroll was a regular starter and Heaton was average in the league below Hylton

Well exactly, what are Well doing that we are not?

They're not only getting great service from these guys but they're selling them on for great money eg Moult signed from Wrexham, sold for £500k, Kipre signed from Leicester u23s, sold for £1M, Marvin Johnston signed from Kidderminster, sold for £750k and a further 300K when he moved to Boro, Heneghan signed from Chester sold for £450k...that's only going back two seasons.

[turrabuddie 1,396]

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.
Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

Exactly. There are gems/rough diamonds out there. We just need to find them and convincing then that signing for us is a foot on the ladder for their progression.

Easy to see and say, but not so easy to execute.

[turrabuddie 1,396]

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.
Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

What game tonight?

[turrabuddie 1,396]

What game tonight?

Sorry just seen it.

Seems both Well and Hibs have done most of their business early - Well newbies showing up better than Hibs so far.
Still not seen too much from Accies, County, Livi, and even the Fakes, so maybe we are not so far behind those around us.

[Big Yards 1,011]

28 minutes ago, turrabuddie said:

Sorry just seen it.

Seems both Well and Hibs have done most of their business early - Well newbies showing up better than Hibs so far.
Still not seen too much from Accies, County, Livi, and even the Fakes, so maybe we are not so far behind those around us.

I very much doubt it!!!

[St.Ricky 7,847]

6 hours ago, turrabuddie said:

Sorry just seen it.

Seems both Well and Hibs have done most of their business early - Well newbies showing up better than Hibs so far.
Still not seen too much from Accies, County, Livi, and even the Fakes, so maybe we are not so far behind those around us.

Balanced and perceptive post. 

[Magic Monkey 4,565]

11 hours ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.

Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

Good shout. Motherwell were excellent, and that boy Hylton looks an amazing find. I like the look of their young striker, too.

Fancy them for a solid 6th/7th this season.

[FTOF 10,374]

Several of these players have a lot of pace and the team have a lot of width.

We currently have no pace at all and no width.

Along with CH, CF, LB these two areas must be sorted before the league campaign starts.

 

[class of 76-77 2,830]

Hylton was available to our ex chief scout two years ago, but he declined the offer. I wonder if said scout will continue to make a rip roaring c**t of his new job at Partick Thistle.

Edited July 20, 2019 by class of 76-77

[Isle Of Bute Saint 9,952]

2 hours ago, Magic Monkey said:

Good shout. Motherwell were excellent, and that boy Hylton looks an amazing find. I like the look of their young striker, too.

Fancy them for a solid 6th/7th this season.

Agree with that . Ross County have been scoring goals. Not trying to be despondent I think the bottom three mini league will be Hamilton, Livingston and ourselves. Hopeful we survive then build on that for the following season. Stability is what we need. 

[turrabuddie 1,396]

Agree with that . Ross County have been scoring goals. Not trying to be despondent I think the bottom three mini league will be Hamilton, Livingston and ourselves. Hopeful we survive then build on that for the following season. Stability is what we need. 

Could possibly drag the Fakes into the mini league too of they don't get a good start

[melmac 873]

We will be in danger of doing a Gretna, make no bones about it.

[Isle Of Bute Saint 9,952]

Just now, turrabuddie said:

Could possibly drag the Fakes into the mini league too of they don't get a good start

They have not been getting good results but have a lot of injuries especially in defence.  

[Isle Of Bute Saint 9,952]

1 minute ago, melmac said:

We will be in danger of doing a Gretna, make no bones about it.

What makes you think that ? 

[Sweeper07 3,979]

16 hours ago, aldo_j said:

How do you know we didn’t have the upfront discussion with Longridge and Miller? We probably did, then decided they either weren’t right or offered a deal that wasn’t of interest to them.

So the Dutch lad came over for a day on an EasyJet flight. Again, big deal. It’s all part and parcel of trying to sign players. It’s hardly as if we flew him over on a private jet.

So the time key people spent on Thomas was worthwhile then while we continued to fail to add players to our sparse squad then?  

AND if either player who went to Spain wasn't right - might it have been better to find that out at Ralston and have the Spain camp weeks later when we actually had a squad to build together?  😨