Speculation Thread

[St.Ricky 6,508]

On 7/18/2019 at 8:16 AM, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Copy and paste where I said we would be relegated.  If your pointing the finger show the post. You cant can you. What I will say clearly our player budget is not up to our expectations otherwise the recruitment would be well in place. 

Hard to argue against the point that money is tight. My guess is that we bring in a mix of 3 Contracted players and 3 Loan players but these might not come in till later in the window when expectations drop. Might prefer it was otherwise and hope that I am proved wrong. 

[munoz 6,480]

With just over 2 weeks until the first league game, we really are cutting it fine with regards to getting bodies in. Hopefully we'll have enough to see off EK and Albion R , but you've really got to fear our first 3 league games. Could be a couple of heavy defeats as things stand currently. 

[insaintee 4,783]

25 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

[jaybee 1,430]

1 minute ago, insaintee said:

30 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Funny that geezer on here swore they were paying Shankland £600k too!

the point remains, did Shankland go to Utd because they are such a successful club? Or because they ponied up the dough?

we seem to be shopping off the reduced to clear shelf, and still struggling to bring anyone in. Its only money that changes things. Most players in our market want a three year deal at a reasonable salary. If you cant offer that then they'll look elsewhere . f**k me there are literally thosands of players available, if you pay them what they are looking for.

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

The only team at the moment who seem to be gelling particularly well is Dunfermline, I know they haven't played anybody of consequences as yet but I watched the Albion Rovers game and they were good, things at the moment are clicking for them.  This doesn't necessarily mean all their signings are great or superior quality, but let's be fair .... they are doing OK.

[Isle Of Bute Saint 9,949]

14 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Hard to argue against the point that money is tight. My guess is that we bring in a mix of 3 Contracted players and 3 Loan players but these might not come in till later in the window when expectations drop. Might prefer it was otherwise and hope that I am proved wrong. 

Would agree with that Ricky we know McAllister is maybe aye, maybe naw. 

[Lord Pityme 6,022]

3 minutes ago, insaintee said:

hears another point, who would be happy if we had ponied up the dought? Every player is a gamble, and shankland is a gamble we placed before and lost. I think most of us would be ok with him coming back, just not the kind of money DU are paying. 

I'm curious to who these better players being signed by teams around us are. Who would like to have seen come to us instead of to Hamiltion, Livingstone,. Well, Johnnies Ross county?

Its not a bigger gamble, its a racing certainty that if you don't pay the going rate for a decent player you will be relegated!

re your last bit about better players, I think that was Oaky's point, not mine. That said, i would agree that on paper at least our signings of Lyness, Andreu and Djorkaeff are below the standard of others signings.

Lyness i get, we needed a No2 keeper, or cover when Hldaky goes (which, mark my words will be in this window), Andreu is thise season's Donatti, or Gow, and Djorkaeff is a complete unknown quantity. Hope he dazzles us, we will know two weeks tomorrow!

[Russian Saint 932]

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.
now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.
there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.
its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.
last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.
what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....
that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

Can’t argue with you here chap as you make some good points.
However. With Goodwin knowing the club so well and knowing the history of the managerial merry go round since he left the last time, he’d surely need to be off his head to take the job under those circumstances.

[Lord Pityme 6,022]

1 minute ago, Russian Saint said:

 

Can’t argue with you here chap as you make some good points.
However. With Goodwin knowing the club so well and knowing the history of the managerial merry go round since he left the last time, he’d surely need to be off his head to take the job under those circumstances.

 

Ego can easily brush aside stark reality!

i am sure Goody is convinced he can improve us, but he needs all the tools at his disposal to do that, and i fear he's been given just a half set of clubs?

what will be worth watching, and will give a wry chuckle is when the chairman realises its not working on the cheap and flings money at players or a more experienced assistant like Nicholl. I fear this time though there wont be a great escape.

[beyond our ken 3,316]

Ah, the reduced to clear shelf-where everything is either smaller than xxs or bigger than xxl or in a horrendous colour

Does that make Josh Heaton the equivalent of a pair of 44" waist fluoro-green chinos topped off with a vomit-yellow and burgundy ralph lauren shirt?

[Sweeper07 3,586]

1 hour ago, jaybee said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Wit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           fun

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         prank

                                                                                                 jest

                                                                                              banter

                                                                                            sarcasm

Looks like I should not have gone abroad on business and then taken a holiday I think. . . 

[magnus 2,113]

18 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Ah, the reduced to clear shelf-where everything is either smaller than xxs or bigger than xxl or in a horrendous colour

Does that make Josh Heaton the equivalent of a pair of 44" waist fluoro-green chinos topped off with a vomit-yellow and burgundy ralph lauren shirt?

TKmax shopper outed! 

[beyond our ken 3,316]

1 minute ago, magnus said:

TKmax shopper outed! 

I bought a summer wardrobe for £23 and you can spot me at 1000 metres in the dark

[insaintee 4,783]

26 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Ah, the reduced to clear shelf-where everything is either smaller than xxs or bigger than xxl or in a horrendous colour

Does that make Josh Heaton the equivalent of a pair of 44" waist fluoro-green chinos topped off with a vomit-yellow and burgundy ralph lauren shirt?

No that would be Shull

[magnus 2,113]

6 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I bought a summer wardrobe for £23 and you can spot me at 1000 metres in the dark

Popped in myself and got a lovely pair of shoes. Didn't try them on - who does? Anyway left shoe size 9 right shoe size 13. I walk in circles now.

[Ayrshire Saints 3,707]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.

now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.

there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.

its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.

last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.

what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....

that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

Perhaps you should offer your services to the club seeing as you have the system sussed and it is so easy.  It's amazing how transfers turn in to protacted sagas when it is so simple even at the top clubs. At the risk of also sounding like a stuck record there is far more than money to consider when deciding where to ply your trade, it's nowhere near as simple as you make out !!!

[turrabuddie 1,216]

Its not a bigger gamble, its a racing certainty that if you don't pay the going rate for a decent player you will be relegated!
re your last bit about better players, I think that was Oaky's point, not mine. That said, i would agree that on paper at least our signings of Lyness, Andreu and Djorkaeff are below the standard of others signings.
Lyness i get, we needed a No2 keeper, or cover when Hldaky goes (which, mark my words will be in this window), Andreu is thise season's Donatti, or Gow, and Djorkaeff is a complete unknown quantity. Hope he dazzles us, we will know two weeks tomorrow!

Are you ITK re Hladky being sold this window, or just got a gut feeling ?
If we are selling him will it be too late for JG to reinvest those funds I the team ?

[melmac 847]

Well, Qarabag are through to the next round of the Champs League qualifiers so they may yet come calling again.  Playing Dundalk next week so they could well advance past them.

[smcc 1,017]

2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record it really is not complex! Take the Eastern Europeans we signed in January on loan or like Hladky on contract. I know having played football abroad that in europe most players at that standard get paid the same (its the same here too). I understand these days thats about 1000 euros a week.

now if, as is the case with Hladky, Popesu & co you are still young enough and able to develop then even moving on the same wage is attractive if it puts you in the shop window you think will further your career. So Hladky might well be on the same as he was getting, perhaps plus £300-500 to cover living costs. But its got him noticed, and he wants to be noticed especially down south.

there are literally thosands of guys in Europe who would do the same, feck me clubs are bombarded with showcase videos from agents everyday. And its easy to guage their standard by tuning into the league they are in.

its money first, and then contract length is a consideration, but as long as it doesnt make it prohibitive for another (bigger) club to buy them. Our problem is obviously money, otherwise we would have seen a good few more in by now.

last season we picked up non league, loanees and free agents for nothing and even paid for Heaton. These guys would all be on modest wages. When it was clear there was too much youth, inexperience and quality we paid the highest wages at the club to bring in Anton, Hammill and Jackson. It was that simple when we were prepared to pay the going rate, as it was in January.

what I believe is holding us back is the board's strategy of hoping they can crack it on the cheap, so not funding the manager up front, but reacting to crisis by flinging money at the problem. I guess they think "well we're noypt bottom of the table yet so why spend on good players when we could get some cheap"....

that strattegy didnt work last season meaning a fortune given to Oran to change the squad to prevent relegation, as happened in Ross's first season. You'd think they would reglect on why it didnt work before, and not repeat those mistakes?

The fact that you appear not to know the difference between "neglect" and "reflect" explains a lot of your ramblings.

[Lord Pityme 6,022]

49 minutes ago, turrabuddie said:

Are you ITK re Hladky being sold this window, or just got a gut feeling ?
If we are selling him will it be too late for JG to reinvest those funds I the team ?

I am in the KFA camp, its a gut feeling he'll go in the window.

[Lord Pityme 6,022]

10 minutes ago, smcc said:

The fact that you appear not to know the difference between "neglect" and "reflect" explains a lot of your ramblings.

That is a stunning contribution to the debate!

well done you, well done. Now enjoy your evening..!

[Sweeper07 3,586]

19 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Even before we take players on a trial camp or invite them over, the agreement should be in place with their signature on it - then we know we can add ours or not rather than going so far in futility.

You clearly have absolutely no idea how employment contracts work. No player is EVER going to enter into that sort of arrangement. The Jim McLean era ended 30 years ago ffs. Trials are as much for a players peace if mind as the clubs. Football has moved on clubs simply cannot hold players to ransom these days like you are suggesting.

So we take 3 players to our training camp "on trial" and there is no point in doing the up front discussions on wages and add-ons, length of contract etc, and whether they will accept what we are thinking of offering?

1 out of 3 signed and we paid for travel accommodation for 2 of them for squat.

Same with the Dutch lad - come on over at our expense. 

Does not sound to me like we have any control - it is just miraculous that Andreu thought our deal was ok then?  

Do you believe our BOD are doing things perfectly well?

[aldo_j 1,913]

43 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

So we take 3 players to our training camp "on trial" and there is no point in doing the up front discussions on wages and add-ons, length of contract etc, and whether they will accept what we are thinking of offering?

1 out of 3 signed and we paid for travel accommodation for 2 of them for squat.

Same with the Dutch lad - come on over at our expense. 

Does not sound to me like we have any control - it is just miraculous that Andreu thought our deal was ok then?  

Do you believe our BOD are doing things perfectly well?

How do you know we didn’t have the upfront discussion with Longridge and Miller? We probably did, then decided they either weren’t right or offered a deal that wasn’t of interest to them.

So the Dutch lad came over for a day on an EasyJet flight. Again, big deal. It’s all part and parcel of trying to sign players. It’s hardly as if we flew him over on a private jet.

[Eric Arthur Blair 5,324]

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.

Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

[Transfer news 63]

48 minutes ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

Motherwell showing, yet again, that there are decent players in the English lower leagues and non-league.

Carroll the LB signed from Cambridge Utd and Hylton from Solihull Moors being the stand out so far in tonight's game.

I agree. However King came from Bolton reserves at the age of 23, Kpekawa failed to hold down a place in the same division that Carroll was a regular starter and Heaton was average in the league below Hylton

[Eric Arthur Blair 5,324]

2 minutes ago, Transfer news said:

I agree. However King came from Bolton reserves at the age of 23, Kpekawa failed to hold down a place in the same division that Carroll was a regular starter and Heaton was average in the league below Hylton

Well exactly, what are Well doing that we are not?

They're not only getting great service from these guys but they're selling them on for great money eg Moult signed from Wrexham, sold for £500k, Kipre signed from Leicester u23s, sold for £1M, Marvin Johnston signed from Kidderminster, sold for £750k and a further 300K when he moved to Boro, Heneghan signed from Chester sold for £450k...that's only going back two seasons.