The Club Buy Out - 10000 Hours

[animal]

Retrieving his cash? Pretty obvious he hasn't read up on this much. It's an investment, not a loan.

Oh and do you really, seriously, find it hard to see that putting your £10 a month will make the finances better even just a little bit? Do you fail to see the cummulative effect of at least 299 people doing the same? Do you fail to see that you come on here and complain or demand, yet by being part of the CIC you'd have the chance to actually bring change about and get some proposals through?

YES !

[Big Fras]

The biggest factor in all of this is the backing of the private sector......outwith the normal backers of SMFCs commercial dept. The supporters cash is great, but nowhere near what is ultimately required. Many (including myself) have been sceptical about bringing a number of firms on £10k pa, and I have already given my reasons for that. I would add that the suggestion of "business networking opportunities" is laughable. For £10k I'd want the contracts signed, sealed and delivered ! For £120/year any small business can join the FSB, and get heavy discounts on supply services from fellow members (such as legal advice, accountancy, right through to car hire etc.). They also hold networking events, etc. I've never been, but for £120 its not bad. For £10k I'd want some serious benefits.

However, RA does seem to be well on course to getting a number already signed up, according to his piece in the PDE. Great ! Presumably these people have been given a presenation of what is on offer for the £10k. If so, it seems strange that this has not been explained publicly (ie. "We've got some firms signed up already, but we're not going to tell anyone else what the incentives are for a couple of weeks yet"). I'm not suggesting anything sinsister, just a bit odd.

Some of the stuff on this thread is getting silly, with personal attacks on RA and forum members doing nobody any favours. Nonetheless, some folks seem to be completely in the thrall of RA, and any questiioning of the scheme so far (not neccessarily criticism) is met with derision. I just hope that the guy can pull this proposal off. If he fails, SG will just look for another buyer, but some people on here will just look...well, very silly indeed. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. As John Lydon said: "Blind acceptance is a sign of stupid fools who stand in line", and he was the brains of the Pistols, not Sid

Edited April 2, 2011 by Big Fras

[Stuart Dickson]

Retrieving his cash? Pretty obvious he hasn't read up on this much. It's an investment, not a loan.

Oh and do you really, seriously, find it hard to see that putting your £10 a month will make the finances better even just a little bit? Do you fail to see the cummulative effect of at least 299 people doing the same? Do you fail to see that you come on here and complain or demand, yet by being part of the CIC you'd have the chance to actually bring change about and get some proposals through?

Is it an investment? That would suggest that there would be an element of risk, but it would also suggest there would be the possibility of growth, dividends and returns. I would say that it's neither an investment or a loan as it stands at the moment, but rather it's should be viewed as a donation - as should the £10 per month that fans are being asked to pay in.

[Guthro]

Can anyone tell me if the info will be sent out through snail mail only, or will it be sent (as a PDF?) via e-mail.

When i signed up it was only with an e-mail address.

[div]

Can anyone tell me if the info will be sent out through snail mail only, or will it be sent (as a PDF?) via e-mail.

When i signed up it was only with an e-mail address.

Definitely email delivery !

The PDF will also of course be made available for download via the 10000Hours website.

[Guthro]

Cheers Div.

[div]

Nonetheless, some folks seem to be completely in the thrall of RA, and any questioning of the scheme so far (not neccessarily criticism) is met with derision.

I don't think that's true to be honest, all I think that can be expected of anyone is to be open minded, and when in possession of all the facts that every St.Mirren fan makes up their own mind about the project.

There are those on this forum who are openly dismissing it, slating it and dismissing it as nonsense whilst basing that view on rumours, assumptions and other stuff they have just invented themselves !

They deserve derision in my opinion as they help breed the sort of negativity that eats away at this club.

Not everyone will agree on the merits of the project, but at least give it a chance ? Wait for the facts, and make up your own mind.

[bud77]

The biggest factor in all of this is the backing of the private sector......outwith the normal backers of SMFCs commercial dept. The supporters cash is great, but nowhere near what is ultimately required. Many (including myself) have been sceptical about bringing a number of firms on £10k pa, and I have already given my reasons for that. I would add that the suggestion of "business networking opportunities" is laughable. For £10k I'd want the contracts signed, sealed and delivered ! For £120/year any small business can join the FSB, and get heavy discounts on supply services from fellow members (such as legal advice, accountancy, right through to car hire etc.). They also hold networking events, etc. I've never been, but for £120 its not bad. For £10k I'd want some serious benefits.

However, RA does seem to be well on course to getting a number already signed up, according to his piece in the PDE. Great ! Presumably these people have been given a presenation of what is on offer for the £10k. If so, it seems strange that this has not been explained publicly (ie. "We've got some firms signed up already, but we're not going to tell anyone else what the incentives are for a couple of weeks yet"). I'm not suggesting anything sinsister, just a bit odd.

Some of the stuff on this thread is getting silly, with personal attacks on RA and forum members doing nobody any favours. Nonetheless, some folks seem to be completely in the thrall of RA, and any questiioning of the scheme so far (not neccessarily criticism) is met with derision. I just hope that the guy can pull this proposal off. If he fails, SG will just look for another buyer, but some people on here will just look...well, very silly indeed. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. As John Lydon said: "Blind acceptance is a sign of stupid fools who stand in line", and he was the brains of the Pistols, not Sid

I think a lot will depend on what size of businesses are being targeted, I can't imagine there are many small businesses who could afford £10 k a year so is it medium and large businesses that are being targeted ? Maybe there's a gap there for small businesses to come in at reduced rates ? A lot will also depend on what each company wants out of it, you could for example have a large corporation that simply wants to improve it's community image and sees this as a good opportunity to promote that at relatively little cost for them - I can think of at least 2 companies who have had some very negative press and have been trying to promote themselves now as caring, community based companies. There could be business owners who while not multi millionaires can afford £10 k a year from their own pocket and would like to get involved in a football club to some extent. Until the details are published and the businesses known it's all just supposition.

[Big Fras]

With the benefit of hindsight the PR on this could have been handled a lot better. I'll just wait until we see where the club is in a couple of months time. For a variety of reasons there's little point debating on here.

[bluto]

With the benefit of hindsight the PR on this could have been handled a lot better. I'll just wait until we see where the club is in a couple of months time. For a variety of reasons there's little point debating on here.

Yup!

[div]

I think a lot will depend on what size of businesses are being targeted, I can't imagine there are many small businesses who could afford £10 k a year so is it medium and large businesses that are being targeted ? Maybe there's a gap there for small businesses to come in at reduced rates ? A lot will also depend on what each company wants out of it, you could for example have a large corporation that simply wants to improve it's community image and sees this as a good opportunity to promote that at relatively little cost for them - I can think of at least 2 companies who have had some very negative press and have been trying to promote themselves now as caring, community based companies. There could be business owners who while not multi millionaires can afford £10 k a year from their own pocket and would like to get involved in a football club to some extent. Until the details are published and the businesses known it's all just supposition.

100% spot on.

[Reynard]

I think a lot will depend on what size of businesses are being targeted, I can't imagine there are many small businesses who could afford £10 k a year so is it medium and large businesses that are being targeted ? Maybe there's a gap there for small businesses to come in at reduced rates ? A lot will also depend on what each company wants out of it, you could for example have a large corporation that simply wants to improve it's community image and sees this as a good opportunity to promote that at relatively little cost for them - I can think of at least 2 companies who have had some very negative press and have been trying to promote themselves now as caring, community based companies. There could be business owners who while not multi millionaires can afford £10 k a year from their own pocket and would like to get involved in a football club to some extent. Until the details are published and the businesses known it's all just supposition.

Too right. Even in these tough times £10000 is nothing for larger businesses. It will obviously depend on what is on offer for them of course and nobody on here seems to know this. So lets just wait and see what the deal is for all of us. Businesses and individuals. If it's worth buying into then it will work. If not it won't, and we all move on.

[alanmurray24]

DIV

Can we not put a temp Lock on this thread, there are people having a go at people they dont even know, and banding about information that they know even less about. I am not saying anyone is more right than others, I just want to be able to make my own mind up with all the facts/figures to hand. Come a few days and we will have all they information to hand and we can then all make up our mind........instead of people trying to pedal their own views about how this will / wont work etc.

If we all wait, we will all be more knowledgeable about what the CiC holds for St Mirren and its future

[St. Sid]

Too right. Even in these tough times £10000 is nothing for larger businesses. It will obviously depend on what is on offer for them of course and nobody on here seems to know this. So lets just wait and see what the deal is for all of us. Businesses and individuals. If it's worth buying into then it will work. If not it won't, and we all move on.

I think this a key point. For eons St Mirren has been run by a BoD made up of small local businessmen. That wasn't a bad thing; however as we have all experienced to our frustration they have been been fairly limited in their ability to market St Mirren. Small business people attract small business people. I am trying to make this point without being disrespectful to the current BoD who have done remarkable things and continue to do remarkable things with the current undertaking.

The BoDs of St Mirren certainly since the 70's / 80's have always been as mysterious and secretive as the ratf"king old grammarian society - many of the past Board members being part of that organisation.

We have had a history of minority shareholders from a small business background and their business networks reflect their standing in the business world.

A quick look at the business background of Richard Atkinson tells a story. ANyione with google can carry out some research on Richard or his family company. Somoen with the contacts of "animal" will of course know of Maxi Group already. We are hearing much from people how they have contacts with businesses that currently invest in St Mirren. Yet they have offered nothing by way of research into the people involved in the CIC program. They clearly prefer to deal in the easier tactic of made up speculation and rumour spinning negativity on every grain of information fed to them.

Take a look at Maxi Group and the companies they engage with as a matter of course. Think about the network of contacts that a Director of a Group of Companies of which each member company are all larger than any St Mirren board members I have seen in the past 20-30 years (happy to be corrected on this).

We have the £300-a-go player shirt sponsors and the auction dinner tie wearing w@nker types in place already and they are worthy of our praise just as a student or pensioner who spends their limited disposable income on a season ticket or the odd game when they can afford it also deserves our praise, we have the repeat local sponsors and the scumbag political parties investing our hard earned tax on the hoardings plus we have the great deal with Braehead. Already JD Sports are now involved at St Mirren. According to the press releases we have a number of obviously larger than normal companies getting involved with St Mirren at the "it'll never work according to some bawbags" £10,000 per annum corporate membership.

Dafites are posting that none of these organisations will invest that amount in St Mirren. I reckon the opposite will be true as we have seen with JD Sports. You were all at the game yesterday - or where you? JD Sports already have their kudos with the St Mirren support through the shirt deal and yet our Commercial Director Richard Atkinson managed without any arm twisting to get them to invest in the "hall of Fame" initiative dreamt up by a rank and file supporter - something our previous commercial department may have knocked back. What was in that for JD Sports? If some of the self important fandans that post on here are to be believed JD Sports would never do that - what did they hope to gain? Do JD Sports really think supporters will run out and buy more tops or shop at their stores as a result? The real question should be, would Provans - again no disrespect and at the risk of making Big Fras cry - but could Provans have made that investment in the club and in the support - did we even ask them or give them the opportunity? Again Provans did great things for our club and the support and deserve our plaudits for it.

Take a look at the people who are becoming involved in our club. They operate at a different level in terms of their business community and network than what has gone before. The second element to these people are the social responsibility element and their history and experience there. They will attract money from their corporate network. They will attract money from their social responsibility and funding network. They are also working their bawz off to ensure that the fans are right at the heart of the club and the decision making processes of the club.

There is no issue in expressing caution, no issue in expressing concern....but at least try to appreciate that these guys and the current BoD might just be trying to deliver something very, very exciting not only for the long suffering hard core support, but also for our entire area and perhaps most importantly for the voluntary organisations in our area and the members of our community that they serve.

For me this is simple:

Corporate Network - money into the club, but also business leaders and their ingenuity coming into the club to leverage the St Mirren brand.

Social Responsibility Network - access to previously untouchable sources of funding coming into the club, opportunities for the social responsibilities to benefit from St Mirren - very much a symbiotic relationship that for me sums up what being a St Mirren supporter is all about.

Community Ownership - fans no longer sitting on the outside of the club, their ideas and talents being brought right to the heart of the decision making table.

That for me is enough to listen with an open mind and a warm heart to the proposals. The fact that part of the deal is for community ownership with the fans leading the club is a massive bonus.

Some of the petty sniping at the information available so far through the media, or worse just the rumoured or frankly made up pish is embarrassing to our support.

It is difficult......we will try and put words into mouths....we will fret about areas of concern and may even get neurotic as we care about the situation so much. But lets try and keep a positive eye on the prize here - niggling doubts aside we must surely agree that if this is the real deal it could be absolutely massive for St Mirren.

[Big Fras]

Oh dear. This is precisely the sort of stuff I was referring to.

BTW Sid, I am in support of a CIC bid, and like most of the people I have spoken to/e-mailed, I hope it comes true.

Animal may lose his argument through some bizarre ranting, but by & large all I see is a decent number of people making some simple queries about the whole thing, not slagging it off. Every time someone raises a doubt, they are cast aside and labelled a heretic. That’s where you get friction.

Your opening paragraph is quite amazing in its assumptions. I too am a small businessman, yet almost deal exclusively with major companies. Please try and stop making sweeping assumptions about commercial enterprises, then declaring it as a fact.

RE: Provans – Sid, you should practice what you are preaching: don’t make sanctimonious remarks about a situation you know nothing about. I’m not crying...just wincing at the words.

[pozbaird]

Far from locking this thread as someone suggested, we need to keep it going. For what it's worth, over recent posts, I think Big Fras, St Sid, Bud77 and Div have all made constructive contributions to the debate. No matter who takes over, we simply must show some drive, initiative, ideas. I'm not knocking the people at the club, in many cases they are a 'one man band' and other clubs have a team of people to do stuff, but we need to think outside the box.

Edited April 3, 2011 by pozbaird

[St. Sid]

Oh dear. This is precisely the sort of stuff I was referring to.

BTW Sid, I am in support of a CIC bid, and like most of the people I have spoken to/e-mailed, I hope it comes true.

Animal may lose his argument through some bizarre ranting, but by & large all I see is a decent number of people making some simple queries about the whole thing, not slagging it off. Every time someone raises a doubt, they are cast aside and labelled a heretic. That’s where you get friction.

Your opening paragraph is quite amazing in its assumptions. I too am a small businessman, yet almost deal exclusively with major companies. Please try and stop making sweeping assumptions about commercial enterprises, then declaring it as a fact.

RE: Provans – Sid, you should practice what you are preaching: don’t make sanctimonious remarks about a situation you know nothing about. I’m not crying...just wincing at the words.

A very petulant post Fras. My post was about being quite positive about the chances of bigger sponsors and corporate members becoming attracted to the club, not to mention the social responsibility slant. It would seem that posters like you and somner want a blank canvas to slate the proposals that aren't even public yet with no answer. There is a big difference in wanting further information on how it will work and stating that it will fail.

Where is your post decrying the personal abuse of Richard Atkinson? Exactly what has he done to merit that attack? I will make my own decisions on who and what I will defend and who and what I will support and if you don't like that get it right f'k'n up yi.

You, somner and animal can post what you like - that's what unofficial forums are all about, but don't play the victim card when it comes right back at you.

[Guest somner9]

A very petulant post Fras. My post was about being quite positive about the chances of bigger sponsors and corporate members becoming attracted to the club, not to mention the social responsibility slant. It would seem that posters like you and somner want a blank canvas to slate the proposals that aren't even public yet with no answer. There is a big difference in wanting further information on how it will work and stating that it will fail.

Where is your post decrying the personal abuse of Richard Atkinson? Exactly what has he done to merit that attack? I will make my own decisions on who and what I will defend and who and what I will support and if you don't like that get it right f'k'n up yi.

You, somner and animal can post what you like - that's what unofficial forums are all about, but don't play the victim card when it comes right back at you.

whoooooaaaaa there!!!! re the bold bit above i have never slated the proposals, in fact i have registered my interest as it's obvious there is no other serious offer on the table nor was there over the last 12 - 18 months, so i want to know the in's and out's of it and then make an informed decision.

imo unless something is resolved then DL like GMc will have to wave ta ta to his best out of contract players and then plunder the riches of Cowdenbeith etc for a squad next season.

I did give my opinion on the content of RA's interview's and for that i was rounded on by half a dozen or so posters suggesting all manner of insult. i didn't respond in kind, and wouldn't cheapen myself to do so. but surely we are able to give our opinion short of defaming someone without a torrent of personal abuse in return?

the post needs to stay open, it's the future of our club we are discussing but maybe (self included) we can talk about it without pushing each others button?

Edited April 3, 2011 by somner9

[Big Fras]

Sid. Read any of my posts over the last few days - against any RA abuse; supportive of the CIC bid; merely expressing a concern over funding, and asking for a positive reply. You have completely proven my point about anyone raising a query being blindly slaughtered. This does the CIC lobby no favours whatsoever. Read/think before clattering the keypad.

[Guest somner9]

But that's not what he said, he said he initially contacted St. Mirren about Glasgow City playing at Ralston and his interest stemmed from there. And I don't see how being associated with Glasgow Ladies would encourage others to rip the pish - they are arguably the best Ladies team in Scotland....unless you're taking a sexist view there??

It seems to everyone on here you're just looking at cheap shots to get at Atkinson instead of having an open mind.

your wrong about me, re the reply i gave to the post above.

can i ask an open and honest question it may concern you or other posters that have rounded on anyone who makes any comment that doesn't hail the coming of the messiah RA.

the question is: has mr Atkinson taken you or anyone else into his confidence re his yet to be a fully announced proposals?

absolutely nothing wrong if that is indeed the case, but you then have to accept that people that have not met or had communication with RA will voice their opinion accordingly until they are better informed. then everyone can make their mind up

as said above I have registered my interest as i see no alternative to just keep the club going, never mind moving it forward.

[div]

This situation is potentially one of the biggest things ever to happen to the club, and the debate we are having here is the reason this forum exists.

The forum comes alive when there are big issues to be discussed, and they don't come much bigger than this.

I fully expect that when the information does come out that there will be a split between those in favour and those against it and there will be much debate about it all.

We are all St.Mirren fans however and first and foremost we all want what is best for the club and we should all respect each others view.

[div]

900 notes of interest now on the 10000 hours website

[Drew]

This situation is potentially one of the biggest things ever to happen to the club, and the debate we are having here is the reason this forum exists.

The forum comes alive when there are big issues to be discussed, and they don't come much bigger than this.

I fully expect that when the information does come out that there will be a split between those in favour and those against it and there will be much debate about it all.

We are all St.Mirren fans however and first and foremost we all want what is best for the club and we should all respect each others view.

Amen to that

[St. Sid]

Sid. Read any of my posts over the last few days - against any RA abuse; supportive of the CIC bid; merely expressing a concern over funding, and asking for a positive reply. You have completely proven my point about anyone raising a query being blindly slaughtered. This does the CIC lobby no favours whatsoever. Read/think before clattering the keypad.

Fras, suck ma gnarly bawbag.

There is no CIC lobby ya paranoid fud. There is a lobby that would like dafties to hang fire until they have a reasonable level of understanding before getting entrenched one way or another.

There is no railroading of this whatsoever, in fact the opposite is true. If the fans decide we don't want this then the status quo remains in place and the BoD go back to looking for a traditional buyer.

I also reserve the right to decide the CIC is a lot of shite once I have all the facts in my possession.

I will look at the various merits of the CIC setup and also take a look at the downside....one of which is the terrifying thought that some of the fandan supporters we have might actually gain some influence in the running of the club. Just imagine some blawbag like animal managing to fool everyone into thinking he has a clue about finances or running a business.

[Big Fras]

Fras, suck ma gnarly bawbag.

There is no CIC lobby ya paranoid fud. There is a lobby that would like dafties to hang fire until they have a reasonable level of understanding before getting entrenched one way or another.

There is no railroading of this whatsoever, in fact the opposite is true. If the fans decide we don't want this then the status quo remains in place and the BoD go back to looking for a traditional buyer.

I also reserve the right to decide the CIC is a lot of shite once I have all the facts in my possession.

I will look at the various merits of the CIC setup and also take a look at the downside....one of which is the terrifying thought that some of the fandan supporters we have might actually gain some influence in the running of the club. Just imagine some blawbag like animal managing to fool everyone into thinking he has a clue about finances or running a business.