Ok I Will Start It Sack Danny

[Drew]

Let's put all of this sacking nonsense into perspective.

We haven't sacked a manager for 10 years.

St Mirren are not a sacking club.

All those advocating sacking Danny might want to put their money where their enormous mouths are.

Wasn't Gus effectively sacked?

[Zico71]

I like wee DL and the type of football he's trying play but you can only p!sh with the c*ck you've got however i do have to question his decision to have that Welsh twat as his first choice keeper.

[AllyM]

Wasn't Gus effectively sacked?

Nah - we just moved him onto a zero-hours contract. Still on it, as far as I know.

[Stuart Dickson]

He was shot to pieces for it because as usual Stuart was shit stirring with no evidence.

He just says stuff to see how many utter bellends believe him.

Nobody is saying this isn't true but if you're going to make comments like this, at least base it on actual evidence.

I don't remember being shot to pieces, but I do have a rather painful right knee so if you or Scrappy Coco could supply me with the names of the shooter I'd be happy to take your evidence to the police.... The way I remember it was that actually there were several people who posted saying that they feared that I might actually be right.

I was speculating, of course, not shit stirring. If you look up my post I said that it made sense to cut the playing budget this season and to use it as a year to blood youngsters into the first team squad. Hearts starting on -15 points; with a weakened squad; and with a transfer embargo in place means that all St Mirren really need to do over the coming months is to ensure that they beat Hearts or at the very least not lose to Hearts. That will ensure Hearts will be relegated and it would secure at least 11th place in the league for the Buddies and at worst a play off place. After the first round of fixtures St Mirren are still bang on target because Hearts now have only 37 league matches in which to overturn the 15 point deficit.

It makes sense for a number of reasons.

1. You may start to see a return from your youth development programme and from the facilities at Ralston and from that ridiculous bouncy castle in the car park. John McGinn was a success for St Mirren last season, so why not see if the likes of Naismith, Kelly, Reilly, Brady, and Yacub can make their first team breakthrough? Why not see if the club can give them a place to showcase their skills in the hope of receiving a return on investment if one or two of lads manage to start attracting the attention of some English Championship or Premiership sides.

2. The selling consortium has valued St Mirren FC Ltd at £4m. That valuation looks utterly ridiculous when over the last 15 years the balance sheet has seldom shown a profit and even when it does show a profit it's very modest and usually in no more than the low tens of thousands. To use popular culture to back up my point can you imagine Stewart Gilmour stood in front of Peter Jones, Theo Paphitis, Duncan Bannatyne and Deborah Meaden telling them he was looking for £2m of investment in return for a 51% stake in the business whilst quoting 15 years worth of financials that shows the business seldom does better than break even. So why not use this season as an opportunity to make a decent profit, show any potential buyer that it can be done and make their shareholding look a bit more enticing?

3. The fans of the club were stupid enough to hand over up front payments for the season without knowing who would be entertaining them. It's a bit like paying to see a theatre production of some play or another without reading the reviews and without knowing the cast. You may do it if you have faith in the storyline and the producer but I would imagine most would want to know at least a few of the people in the cast. The fact that the money is in the bank and the fans are locked in for a season must make point 2 even more enticing. Who could blame them?

I wouldn't sack DL unless or until he loses the first match against Hearts. Knickerwetting is silly when the important point from the weekend is that Hearts lost and now need to overturn a 15 point deficit with only 111 points left to play for. Apart from anything else it would be incredibly stupid to make all those financial savings only to have to make a payout to Lennon.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Stuart Dickson

[pozbaird]

I'm certainly not advocating sacking Danny, but I think he will be, if we finish 12th or 11th, and he continues to play our most creative players out of position to accomodate a signing that isn't as good as the players being shunted around. He'll also be under pressure if he continues to persist with the Thommohawk up front on his own, running around doing his best, and if the keepers we have brought in don't shape up quick-smartish.

Fenlon will get pumped if Hibs continue the way they're going too - that's a certainty. Danny has time, he's earned that time, but by now, he should fcuking well know that Gowser is not a holding midfielder... amongst other glaringly obvious things.

[irvine_buddie]

I don't think he should be sacked as he has a good long term plan in place and has brought in some great players who on their day can play some brilliant football and achieve some brilliant things. But as Pozbaird said if things dont fall into place this season then he leaves the board with very little choice. Question is who would replace him, nobody springs to mind.

[pozbaird]

I don't think he should be sacked as he has a good long term plan in place and has brought in some great players who on their day can play some brilliant football and achieve some brilliant things. But as Pozbaird said if things dont fall into place this season then he leaves the board with very little choice. Question is who would replace him, nobody springs to mind.

I think it's a racing certainty that IF things don't go the way we hope, and we are so bad that the BOD remove Danny from his position, then they'll bump up Thommo and Teale into the roles. The cheapest best and most desireable option under the circumstances.

I genuinely don't want to see Danny fail - surely all it takes is someone to take him away for a nice wee weekend relaxing at a health spa, sit him down, buy him a Guinness and have a wee word in his ear about a few things?

[oaksoft]

Wasn't Gus effectively sacked?

I thought his contract ran out.

BTW even if he was sacked, in relation to every other club, we are clearly not into sacking managers on a whim.

We can't afford to sack him and we add more players than we already have at the same time.

I think Danny is safe for the time being. End of the season is the time to change managers.

[irvine_buddie]

I think it's a racing certainty that IF things don't go the way we hope, and we are so bad that the BOD remove Danny from his position, then they'll bump up Thommo and Teale into the roles. The cheapest best and most desireable option under the circumstances.

I genuinely don't want to see Danny fail - surely all it takes is someone to take him away for a nice wee weekend relaxing at a health spa, sit him down, buy him a Guinness and have a wee word in his ear about a few things?

I think it's more likely that Thommo would be come the assistant or even player/assistant and someone more experienced would take the main job. However much they want to save money surely putting 2 people with absolutely zero managerial experience in charge isn't the answer.

[Hambud]

I would have sent Lennon packing last season - the League Cup win papered over the cracks. The number of league wins is abysmal. If only Lennons team played as good a game as he speaks!

This season Danny Lennon has a team that :

lack balance - McGowan and Harkins can't play in the same team, we have no left sided midfielder,

lack pace - Teale is possibly the only player that can go past a man at speed

We have a threadbare squad - The lack of options is a real concern - If we do get Newton and Campbell in then I still think we're 2 players short!

Also there is no way Calderwood would manage St Mirren - JC and SG don't see eye to eye from what I am led to believe.

Kenny Shields would be a more likely candidate if we were ever to sack Lennon.

Calderwood always needs a big budget, he was one of the reasons Dunfermline are in the nick they are, he had a massive budget at Aberdeen their chairman publicly cried due to financial problems, he had a few months at Killie and hoped to take the gig full time until he was told the budget. Calderwood could not work with DL's budget.

[pozbaird]

I thought his contract ran out.

BTW even if he was sacked, in relation to every other club, we are clearly not into sacking managers on a whim.

We can't afford to sack him and we add more players than we already have at the same time.

I think Danny is safe for the time being. End of the season is the time to change managers.

Agree - and so he should be. One game played and the transfer window is still open, and loanees could still come in. Talk of getting rid right now is off the mark, but people are perfectly entitled to hold that opinion - and state that opinion on here. This is an open forum on which to let off steam and make open comment. As long as it isn't personal abuse or libellous, then it's fair game.

I'm willing to bet that after a piss-poor defeat like the ICT one, many of us have a 'GTF Danny!' moment to ourselves, but after letting off that initial steam, we actually don't want Danny to 'GTF', we just want him to screw the nut. Just my guess.

Anyway, Fenlon will be getting to F before Danny. A certainty. Hibs problem is they're running out of former club legends to take over.

[norrie82]

I thought his contract ran out.

BTW even if he was sacked, in relation to every other club, we are clearly not into sacking managers on a whim.

We can't afford to sack him and we add more players than we already have at the same time.

I think Danny is safe for the time being. End of the season is the time to change managers.

Gus was on a 1 year rolling contract so he was sacked

[norrie82]

Maybe they won't sack Danny but I see no long term plan and I see a very thin squad who will be beaten most weeks unless they have new hardened pros added to help them. I also think that if we are struggling at November or December the board may opt to change then as Danny will have just 6months left in his contract then.

[pozbaird]

I think it's more likely that Thommo would be come the assistant or even player/assistant and someone more experienced would take the main job. However much they want to save money surely putting 2 people with absolutely zero managerial experience in charge isn't the answer.

Maybees aye, maybees naw. Gus MacPherson stepped into the manager's seat straight from the dressing room - say what you like, his record shows cup wins, SPL status gained and retained, and a national cup final. He did us a good turn over the piece.

Hypothetically, I'd be happier with Thommo & Teale over the 'usual suspects' who apply for every job going. As much as I like him as a person - Yogi Hughes? Jimmy Calderwood? Help ma' boab... no thanks.

[Hambud]

 

Nah - we just moved him onto a zero-hours contract. Still on it, as far as I know.

Gus had a rolling contract, so was paid for 1 season after he left or until he found a new job, which ever came first.

[TigerFeet]

I have nothing great to add to this debate apart from this:

Since the start of last season - a year ago - we have won 9 league games. To put that into context, we've won 6 cup games in that same time. We've played 47 games in total.

In fact, let's look a bit further back. In the previous 30 games to that, we won 7 games... 2 of those were in the cups.

So, since November 19, 2011, we have played 77 games. We've won 14 league games in that time and 8 cup matches. The basic fact is that we seem far more able to get ourselves up for - and win - cup matches than we do league ones. And remember, some of those cup matches would have been against lower-league opposition.

The league statistics are hugely worrying, IMO. And in fact, if you look back over the past two seasons, we've actually won 18 league games in total and 10 cup matches. That's out of about 95 games. That includes our much-lauded start to the 2011/12 season.

Is that kind of league form good enough? I think our cup exploits have masked a serious under-performance in league matches for a long time now.

For all those who are claiming this to be a kneejerk reaction - look at the stats. They speak for themselves. Go back several months and you'll find concern after concern about our woeful league form. It's not kneejerk, it's the continuation of what many of us have said for a long time. Whether it's our mentality, a lack of talent or tactics - we do not perform in the league as we do in the cups - and something has to change before it lands us back in the second tier, where we will have neither the team or the finances to even compete in the cups.

[irvine_buddie]

Maybees aye, maybees naw. Gus MacPherson stepped into the manager's seat straight from the dressing room - say what you like, his record shows cup wins, SPL status gained and retained, and a national cup final. He did us a good turn over the piece.

Hypothetically, I'd be happier with Thommo & Teale over the 'usual suspects' who apply for every job going. As much as I like him as a person - Yogi Hughes? Jimmy Calderwood? Help ma' boab... no thanks.

Agree with you there, don't want an overpaid journeyman manager but I think a bit of experience is needed. Thompson would be good tactically I would imagine and very good at dealing with the players but it's a big step up from player to manager.

[Stuart Dickson]

Maybees aye, maybees naw. Gus MacPherson stepped into the manager's seat straight from the dressing room - say what you like, his record shows cup wins, SPL status gained and retained, and a national cup final. He did us a good turn over the piece.

Hypothetically, I'd be happier with Thommo & Teale over the 'usual suspects' who apply for every job going. As much as I like him as a person - Yogi Hughes? Jimmy Calderwood? Help ma' boab... no thanks.

McPherson was a player / assistant manager at that time. He moved from assistant manager to manager with Gilmour publicly stating that this was the clubs preference as it had been with Coughlin taking over from Hendrie as it provided continuity. He may well have done the same had Andy Millen not fallen out with the board after the League Cup Final. If he was to go back to this policy you would assume that the next manager of the club would be Tommy Craig.

[Drew]

Maybees aye, maybees naw. Gus MacPherson stepped into the manager's seat straight from the dressing room - say what you like, his record shows cup wins, SPL status gained and retained, and a national cup final. He did us a good turn over the piece.

Hypothetically, I'd be happier with Thommo & Teale over the 'usual suspects' who apply for every job going. As much as I like him as a person - Yogi Hughes? Jimmy Calderwood? Help ma' boab... no thanks.

Gus was managing a 1st Division club, though, and didn't come with the baggage of St Mirren supporting legend.

I would have no issue with Thompson being 2nd in command if the post were to become available, but there are too many pitfalls associated with him stepping straight into the hotseat from a background of no managerial experience whatsoever.

[pozbaird]

McPherson was a player / assistant manager at that time. He moved from assistant manager to manager with Gilmour publicly stating that this was the clubs preference as it had been with Coughlin taking over from Hendrie as it provided continuity. He may well have done the same had Andy Millen not fallen out with the board after the League Cup Final. If he was to go back to this policy you would assume that the next manager of the club would be Tommy Craig.

I take your point, but I think you know what I was saying - it was in regard to someone 'untested' as a No1 coming in as opposed to the old guard usual 'steady hand' suspects. It can work - as Gus proved. Every appointment is a gamble - untried players coming straight up, or any old guard appointment. Guys like Ian Murray at Dumbarton seemed to make a huge positive impact - I doubt Jimmy Calderwood would have done much at Dumbarton!

Jackie McNamara, Paul Hartley - a lot more. Clubs seem to be willing to go for the up-and-coming prospect over the same auld' faces. Hence hypothetically speaking I could see Thommo and Teale being given the chance.

Edited for typos and gross stupidity.

Edited August 5, 2013 by pozbaird

[AllyM]

I have nothing great to add to this debate apart from this:

Since the start of last season - a year ago - we have won 9 league games. To put that into context, we've won 6 cup games in that same time. We've played 47 games in total.

In fact, let's look a bit further back. In the previous 30 games to that, we won 7 games... 2 of those were in the cups.

So, since November 19, 2011, we have played 77 games. We've won 14 league games in that time and 8 cup matches. The basic fact is that we seem far more able to get ourselves up for - and win - cup matches than we do league ones. And remember, some of those cup matches would have been against lower-league opposition.

The league statistics are hugely worrying, IMO. And in fact, if you look back over the past two seasons, we've actually won 18 league games in total and 10 cup matches. That's out of about 95 games. That includes our much-lauded start to the 2011/12 season.

Is that kind of league form good enough? I think our cup exploits have masked a serious under-performance in league matches for a long time now.

These numbers are all fair points but I think things go back much longer than that. A couple of years ago, I worked out that since promotion in 2005-2006, we'd won less games in the league than any other club in the Scotland, by some considerable distance. Worse than Clyde, worse than East Stirling. The situation certainly hasn't improved in the last couple of seasons.

For almost all of that time, we've been only just good enough to survive each season. Question is - Is this our level? Should we expect better? Might it be better to get relegated every now and again, just so we get a clear out and a chance of a winning season? Will the new relegation play-off actually help us? I think I enjoyed 1999-2000 and 2005-2006 much more than some of the turgid shite of the last few years, despite the more recent teams being stronger, player for player.

On the other hand, I've really enjoyed the vital "relegation" games at Motherwell and Falkirk too, and much prefer seeing us taking our place in the top Scottish league at the beginning of each season. There is an argument, also, that if you are not in the top league, there is little chance of building a team strong enough to win one of the two major cups - as we have done.

[oaksoft]

These numbers are all fair points but I think things go back much longer than that. A couple of years ago, I worked out that since promotion in 2005-2006, we'd won less games in the league than any other club in the Scotland, by some considerable distance. Worse than Clyde, worse than East Stirling.

This is why statistics are bollox.

You cannot compare us to either of those two teams in a way which is meaningful.

Let us both play the same teams in the same league and only then can you compare.

[billyg]

Gus was on a 1 year rolling contract so he was sacked

Correct , we were still paying him the following season when he was doing media work. I believe that Danny's contract is similar. For someone to say that St Mirren aren't a sacking club is laughable , in the last 40 years only Alex Miller and Iain Munro moved from us to another job within the game , the rest , before and after , were bagged !

[linwood buddie]

I don't remember being shot to pieces, but I do have a rather painful right knee so if you or Scrappy Coco could supply me with the names of the shooter I'd be happy to take your evidence to the police.... The way I remember it was that actually there were several people who posted saying that they feared that I might actually be right.

I was speculating, of course, not shit stirring. If you look up my post I said that it made sense to cut the playing budget this season and to use it as a year to blood youngsters into the first team squad. Hearts starting on -15 points; with a weakened squad; and with a transfer embargo in place means that all St Mirren really need to do over the coming months is to ensure that they beat Hearts or at the very least not lose to Hearts. That will ensure Hearts will be relegated and it would secure at least 11th place in the league for the Buddies and at worst a play off place. After the first round of fixtures St Mirren are still bang on target because Hearts now have only 37 league matches in which to overturn the 15 point deficit.

It makes sense for a number of reasons.

1. You may start to see a return from your youth development programme and from the facilities at Ralston and from that ridiculous bouncy castle in the car park. John McGinn was a success for St Mirren last season, so why not see if the likes of Naismith, Kelly, Reilly, Brady, and Yacub can make their first team breakthrough? Why not see if the club can give them a place to showcase their skills in the hope of receiving a return on investment if one or two of lads manage to start attracting the attention of some English Championship or Premiership sides.

2. The selling consortium has valued St Mirren FC Ltd at £4m. That valuation looks utterly ridiculous when over the last 15 years the balance sheet has seldom shown a profit and even when it does show a profit it's very modest and usually in no more than the low tens of thousands. To use popular culture to back up my point can you imagine Stewart Gilmour stood in front of Peter Jones, Theo Paphitis, Duncan Bannatyne and Deborah Meaden telling them he was looking for £2m of investment in return for a 51% stake in the business whilst quoting 15 years worth of financials that shows the business seldom does better than break even. So why not use this season as an opportunity to make a decent profit, show any potential buyer that it can be done and make their shareholding look a bit more enticing?

3. The fans of the club were stupid enough to hand over up front payments for the season without knowing who would be entertaining them. It's a bit like paying to see a theatre production of some play or another without reading the reviews and without knowing the cast. You may do it if you have faith in the storyline and the producer but I would imagine most would want to know at least a few of the people in the cast. The fact that the money is in the bank and the fans are locked in for a season must make point 2 even more enticing. Who could blame them?

I wouldn't sack DL unless or until he loses the first match against Hearts. Knickerwetting is silly when the important point from the weekend is that Hearts lost and now need to overturn a 15 point deficit with only 111 points left to play for. Apart from anything else it would be incredibly stupid to make all those financial savings only to have to make a payout to Lennon.

Great post ,I think this is what more and more of us are beginning to believe .

[linwood buddie]

.

Correct , we were still paying him the following season when he was doing media work. I believe that Danny's contract is similar. For someone to say that St Mirren aren't a sacking club is laughable , in the last 40 years only Alex Miller and Iain Munro moved from us to another job within the game , the rest , before and after , were bagged !

We sacked Fergie,FFS