Ok I Will Start It Sack Danny

[Isabella Duke]

A few folk have talked about not giving Steven Thompson the manager’s job because he isn’t experienced…

I think that a club like St. Mirren needs to take a chance.

St. Johnstone gave Owen Coyle, Derek McInnes and Steve Lomas their first jobs in senior management and they have done ok.

Thompson is intelligent, he’s articulate, he’s played at the highest level in football, he’s got his coaching badges and he’s no doubt got a catalogue of contacts from his time in the game. He’s also a St. Mirren supporter.

IMO, he’s the ideal choice.

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

I don't think he should be sacked as he has a good long term plan in place and has brought in some great players who on their day can play some brilliant football and achieve some brilliant things. But as Pozbaird said if things dont fall into place this season then he leaves the board with very little choice. Question is who would replace him, nobody springs to mind.

The choice is obvious. It has to be the guys sitting behind the goal on Saturday. They're legends-in-waiting and know so much more about the game than the current manager. I mean, these guys got Saints into the Champions League Final on the Playstation so it stands to reason they're what the club are crying out for.

Correct , we were still paying him the following season when he was doing media work. I believe that Danny's contract is similar. For someone to say that St Mirren aren't a sacking club is laughable , in the last 40 years only Alex Miller and Iain Munro moved from us to another job within the game , the rest , before and after , were bagged !

Fitzy the first time round resigned. The second time he was bagged. Cúnty Cúnt also avoided getting sacked, although he was more deserving than anyone. He just fúcked off to a coaching job in the US leaving a whole load of shite in his wake.

Apart from that, yep sackings galore.

[Mr Zo]

Have we spent all our budget? Has offering improved terms to Goodwin, Teale, Thomohawk, Gowser and the signing of Harkins used up most of the available budget.

Some of the key players that came after Christmas were on loan in the form of Newton and Isma as well as Dummet for the whole season. Did these players parent clubs pick up all their salary with us possibly paying a nominal remuneration?

Is it a case if we can't get player's on loan with the parent club picking up the salary then we are fooked for getting any new faces in?

We desperately need several new players in. How can we start the season with only one recognised striker (Reilly at a push). If they don't come in this transfer window then Danny is going yo find himself in all sorts of bother.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Mr Zo

[Chris]

This is why statistics are bollox.

You cannot compare us to either of those two teams in a way which is meaningful.

Let us both play the same teams in the same league and only then can you compare.

You have missed the point completely, I'm afraid.

[pozbaird]

Might it be better to get relegated every now and again, just so we get a clear out and a chance of a winning season? Will the new relegation play-off actually help us? I think I enjoyed 1999-2000 and 2005-2006 much more than some of the turgid shite of the last few years, despite the more recent teams being stronger, player for player.

If you fancy an SPFL Championship with St Mirren, Hearts, and the Sevco in it, then I'm afraid it's not for me. Would set us back five - ten years no problem.

[Jumbo Whiffy]

You can only surmise what’s actually happened over the close season, but the result appears to be self destruction. A dozen players out, and after much speculation and anticipation we’ve signed 5, and only 2 of these have senior experience.

The current shituation appears to be a result of Danny’s poor contact list, a belief that bringing the youths through will be sufficient, and a reduction in budget.

I think the goal of the board is to sell an SPL club, even if that’s a 10^th placed, or even a play off winning SPL club. The smaller the budget this can be done on the better, and this year it’s aided by the Hearts situation.

Irrespective of what happening on the park what will be advertised for sale is a top flight club, debt free, excellent facilities, and a trophy in the cabinet. Here’s an excellent foundation for someone to build upon, we’ve taken our risks, we’re in the twilight of our tenure and we’re taking no more.

This may need a rethink because you lose SPL status from that list then you lose a big part of the investment.

That aside; Danny appears to have pissed away much of that budget on unproven youngsters and a fetish for midfielders. But I don’t think a changing the manager alone would do. The board needs to have aspirations of progressing on the park and not content with treading water at the bottom end of the table.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Jumbo Whiffy

[Stuart Dickson]

I take your point, but I think you know what I was saying - it was in regard to someone 'untested' as a No1 coming in as opposed to the old guard usual 'steady hand' suspects. It can work - as Gus proved. Every appointment is a gamble - untried players coming straight up, or any old guard appointment. Guys like Ian Murray at Dumbarton seemed to make a huge positive impact - I doubt Jimmy Calderwood would have done much at Dumbarton!

Jackie McNamara, Paul Hartley - a lot more. Clubs seem to be willing to go for the up-and-coming prospect over the same auld' faces. Hence hypothetically speaking I could see Thommo and Teale being given the chance.

Edited for typos and gross stupidity.

Yeah Pozbaird, I'm not making a case for or against Thompson, just highlighting what the boards stated policy is and pointing out that McPherson was assistant manager before being appointed manager. I don't have a problem with new young managers coming into a club like St Mirren, they have to cut their teeth somewhere. What I would worry about for their sakes though is that St Mirren don't appear to offer the same kind of grounding for success as the likes of St Johnstone, Partick Thistle, Inverness or Ross County.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

If ever there is a season to gamble on youth players being able to make the step up and make the grade in the first team surely it is when one team in the division is in administration and starting with a 15 point deduction and signing embargo in place for the season? I am quite happy for us to bank some cash this season, give youth a chance and see if that works, and if it doesn't we have the January window to make signings. The International Rangers will no doubt be back in the SPFL Premiership in 2 years time and you would expect them to be nowhere near relegation contenders when they do make it back to the top flight again. Maybe we are being shrewd and not spending money we don't need to spend this season and taking a long view that we will need to spend in 2 years time and will sit back and let Killie et al max out their credit now on keeping Kris Boyd so they can chase 6th spot and win nothing and still be drowning in debt in 2 years time when they need to invest?

[TigerFeet]

I think the biggest frustration in all of this for me is he lack of awareness from Danny Lennon and others at the club on the areas we need to improve in our team - for the longer term and not just the odd loan signing to fill a gap. You could say that the signings of Isma and Newton pretty much won us the League Cup last year, but where is the long-term view? Who replaces them when they inevitably leave for bigger and better things?

I'm so fed up of the soft goals we have given away pretty much since the first day Danny Lennon walked into this job. It's been glaringly obvious that it has to change for years now and it hasn't. In fact, if anything, it has got worse. Despite that, we've failed to sign one new centre back for a third successive summer. We've kept the same right back who's past his best. We've had a succession of left-backs - decent performers but all of whom we've failed to keep hold of - and we've lost the best keeper we had in years. Why did we need to sign Gary Harkins? What exactly does he bring to the table that McGowan/McLean/McGinn don't? Why have so many creative midfielders when we have one proven striker, who - let's face it - is in the twilight of his career, and no ball winners? We let Guy and Imrie go in the summer. But at least these guys could provide something of a back-up, and were much pacier/more energetic than Thommo. They were not particularly good, but they were better than having nothing at all, which is what we have now. If we were going to make one 'key' signing in the summer, a Harkins-type player was the last thing that we needed. A centre/right back, goalkeeper, ball-winning midfielder or striker would have been higher up the list.

So we may bring in Newton and Campbell. Good additions, possibly, but where does that then leave us in six months, a year's time? Back at square one, possibly even further back than that. Probably without McGowan. Possibly without McGregor, depending on how he recovers and performs. Possibly (or should that be probably) without Teale and Thompson. And definitely without an experienced keeper. So that's no playmaker, no winger, no right back, no goalscorer, no goalkeeper, another defender down and possibly more should other circumstances arise (not to mention the fringe players out of contract).

Where is the long-term vision here? We have a couple of good youngsters - McGinn, Reilly - but who else do we have that's proven they're good enough for our first team? Even Reilly is still to prove that he is capable of being a Premiership player on a consistent basis - not a fault of his own, as he was injured last year, but still a fact. And while it's great that we have these guys, where is the goalscoring talent we've produced ourselves? Where's the centre back or the goalkeeper we've developed through the youth ranks? We have a habit of producing talented midfielders, but we have next to nothing elsewhere. We haven't had that for years. That is concerning for the future of our football club. A John McGinn or Kenny McLean emerging once every two or three years is not an indication of a successful youth system. It's a reasonably successful midfield production line.

We did very well to come into the SPL and then stay up in our first season, seemingly against all odds. Since then, we've had a major helping hand - due to unusual circumstances - in avoiding relegation. This season might be the same. However, that isn't just 'our level' and I hate people saying that it is. 'Our level' doesn't really exist any more, as teams like Ross Co, St J, ICT have proven. Your level is as high as you want it to be, as long as you can do what you need to do to achieve that. We're constantly told that top six is our ambition; so when other clubs around us are achieving that, and we are not, surely that has to be seen as failure? If we're not making our targets, why are changes not forthcoming? Why are we not implementing the changes we need to achieve that, within our means? Is this the very best we can do? While teams around us build on the squads they have, we are left scrambling around to fill numerous positions in our team at the last minute. People say this is the perfect year to consolidate with Hearts being deducted 15 points; does that mean we weren't confident enough in our own potential last year to think we were able to do anything other than fight another relegation scrap with a weak Dundee team?

I'm not naive enough to think St Mirren can be a top four/five/six team consistently, year on year, for a long period of time. Ross Co, St J, ICT etc. will have their fall again. But we haven't even been there once. We have never looked like being there once. I want to know what our excuse is for that. St J finished third last year with a team which included a player we let go for not being good enough, and another of our former players who many didn't believe to be good enough. That not only tells us that we're not getting the best out of certain players, but that we CAN sign the standard of player required to get us to that kind of level. I'm just not sure we have the standard of manager or coaching staff to get us there.

[Bud the Baker]

Yeah Pozbaird, I'm not making a case for or against Thompson, just highlighting what the boards stated policy is and pointing out that McPherson was assistant manager before being appointed manager. I don't have a problem with new young managers coming into a club like St Mirren, they have to cut their teeth somewhere. What I would worry about for their sakes though is that St Mirren don't appear to offer the same kind of grounding for success as the likes of St Johnstone, Partick Thistle, Inverness or Ross County.

Would disagree with two out of your four examples, possibly three.

Partick Thistle - first season back in the top flight after a decade and wer in Division 2 of the SFL. Prior to McNamara their managers were Ian McColl & Dick Campbell

ICT - Terry Butcher could hardly have been described as a "new young manager" when he took over.

Ross County - Less sure about this one but even though they finished above us in the Top Six last season with a young manager but like Thistle they have been in the third tier while we've been in the SPL and have a rich benefactor underwriting their success.

St. Johnstone are the only club that clearly fill the your argument of young managers given the opportunity and backing to be successful.

**********************

Back to Danny Lennon - IMO the height of his tenure with us, in league terms, was the start of the 2011/12 season and in particular the draw at Ibrox. Danny seemed to come out of that game thinking we were the "Barcelona of the North " and talking about our passing game when in fact our equalising goal came from a last minute "Hail Mary" attack. Since then we have played an increasingly less effective passing game - I'd much rather have a manager like Terry Butcher who has a plan and whose players know what that plan is and seem comfortable playing in that style

[Stuart Dickson]

Would disagree with two out of your four examples, possibly three.

Partick Thistle - first season back in the top flight after a decade and wer in Division 2 of the SFL. Prior to McNamara their managers were Ian McColl & Dick Campbell

ICT - Terry Butcher could hardly have been described as a "new young manager" when he took over.

Ross County - Less sure about this one but even though they finished above us in the Top Six last season with a young manager but like Thistle they have been in the third tier while we've been in the SPL and have a rich benefactor underwriting their success.

St. Johnstone are the only club that clearly fill the your argument of young managers given the opportunity and backing to be successful.

**********************

Back to Danny Lennon - IMO the height of his tenure with us, in league terms, was the start of the 2011/12 season and in particular the draw at Ibrox. Danny seemed to come out of that game thinking we were the "Barcelona of the North " and talking about our passing game when in fact our equalising goal came from a last minute "Hail Mary" attack. Since then we have played an increasingly less effective passing game - I'd much rather have a manager like Terry Butcher who has a plan and whose players know what that plan is and seem comfortable playing in that style

ICT didn't go for a new manager when they appointed Butcher, but their whole history has seen them develop young managers. Sergei Baltacha, Steve Paterson, John Robertson, Craig Brewster, and Charlie Christie all had degrees of success in their time at the club - all of them in their first senior managerial appointment.

Ross County are more of a mixed bag, but Neale Cooper, Gardner Spiers, Scott Leitch, and Derek Adams all took their first managerial appointments there, and again were supported to relative success.

At Partick I was more talking about McNamara and now Archibald who have found reasonable backing from their board and from the support. St Johnstone are probably the weakest team of the four since only Coyle and McInnes started their managerial careers there. Both Lomas and Wright came from other managerial appointments.

[Drew]

It is literally exhausting me reading some of the posts on here since the weekend, though I acknowledge that many well constructed arguments are being presented.

I think I might be in the FTOF camp on this one, though. I can't bring myself to expend quite so much energy or concern as some others seem to.

^^^^^^^^^

Part-timer, IMO

[nedflanders123]

I've seen that statement posted a few times on here. How can that be possible as both "Old Firm" teams are not in the same league?

Celtic top and Dundee finished bottom leaving 10 non-OF teams and we finished 10th - we were therefore 10th in the league

[Drew]

Twitter rumours that Wattie Smith left his post at Sevco to become next Saints manager!

[pozbaird]

Twitter rumours that Wattie Smith left his post at Sevco to become next Saints manager!

Next striker. Get your facts right.

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

Back to Danny Lennon - IMO the height of his tenure with us, in league terms, was the start of the 2011/12 season and in particular the draw at Ibrox. Danny seemed to come out of that game thinking we were the "Barcelona of the North " and talking about our passing game when in fact our equalising goal came from a last minute "Hail Mary" attack. Since then we have played an increasingly less effective passing game - I'd much rather have a manager like Terry Butcher who has a plan and whose players know what that plan is and seem comfortable playing in that style

I beg to differ. A “Hail Mary” is just a straight hoof up the park. That particular goal went from Craig Samson to the left back position, into midfield, out to Van Zanten then Thommo converting the resultant low cross. None of these passes were over head height, it WAS all passing and there was control & discipline to the move. To me, it was the archetypal passing movement goal.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes

[norrie82]

Yes gus was on a one year rolling deal. I believe the club simply paid him his years notice . Prob part of the reason Danny was brought in with a much lower salary. According to my reliable source gus was on silly money as manager

[Barney63]

Twitter rumours that Wattie Smith left his post at Sevco to become next Saints manager!

You are possibly being mischievous with the last bit, but I do remember some whispers years ago (and long before the Sevco debacle) that Smith is a closet Saints fan and had mulled trying to buy the club as a retirement project. And that he wanted to bring a wee pal.

[Isabella Duke]

I beg to differ. A “Hail Mary” is just a straight hoof up the park. That particular goal went from Craig Samson to the left back position, into midfield, out to Van Zanten then Thommo converting the resultant low cross. None of these passes were over head height, it WAS all passing and there was control & discipline to the move. To me, it was the archetypal passing movement goal.

Indeed, albeit, McGowan's pass out to Zan Vanten was a long pass... and we caught Rangers on the break as they had pushed men forward to press us in our own half as we took a throw in.

I think the point being made though is that goals very seldom come about like that, particularly for St. Mirren. But a lot of fools see a goal like that (Danny Lennon most likely included) and use that as their justification for a style of play.

Most goals come from breaks of the balls, set plays, hitting teams on the break, scrappy play, long balls, etc. Without going into the stats (although I'd be quite happy to ), most goals come from a move of 1 pass or less and most of thise moves originate in the attacking third.

Teams like ICT and Ross County set out with the main aim of trying to win and set their tactics accordingly. They play direct and they fill their sides with big physical players and players with pace.

Danny Lennon and other clowns like him (John Hughes at Falkirk was a classic) set out with the main aim of "trying to play the game the right way" and within that framework then try to find the best way to win.

We have got it the wrong way round.

Yes, the best teams in the world play a great passing game. But they have the best players in the world at their disposal. The fact is that the worst teams in the world also attempt to play a passing game as well!

Lennon & Craig should focus on winning games and factor their targets, signings and team selections around that. While their focus remains of "trying to play the game the right way" we are going to get nowhere.

Lennon won't change his ways however and its inevitable that he will be sacked.

[oaksoft]

You have missed the point completely, I'm afraid.

Not sure I did.

He wanted to make out our team was as shit as possible and chose some dodgy stats which appeared to back him up.

He compared us with two teams that don't even play in our league.

I wouldn't be surprised if he trawled the Shetland Mission Fishing Boys Under 12 League to see if we were worse than those teams too.

What exactly did I miss?

Edited August 5, 2013 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

Back to Danny Lennon - IMO the height of his tenure with us, in league terms, was the start of the 2011/12 season and in particular the draw at Ibrox. Danny seemed to come out of that game thinking we were the "Barcelona of the North " and talking about our passing game when in fact our equalising goal came from a last minute "Hail Mary" attack.

Hail Mary my arse!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLnScGVFyCA

[Lethal89]

Yes gus was on a one year rolling deal. I believe the club simply paid him his years notice . Prob part of the reason Danny was brought in with a much lower salary. According to my reliable source gus was on silly money as manager

I heard this too, around £170k I believe. We put Gus on gardening leave and paid his wage for a year, so we were paying 2 managers every week rather than cough up and pay him off in full.

[DLBud]

I think the biggest frustration in all of this for me is he lack of awareness from Danny Lennon and others at the club on the areas we need to improve in our team - for the longer term and not just the odd loan signing to fill a gap. You could say that the signings of Isma and Newton pretty much won us the League Cup last year, but where is the long-term view? Who replaces them when they inevitably leave for bigger and better things?

I'm so fed up of the soft goals we have given away pretty much since the first day Danny Lennon walked into this job. It's been glaringly obvious that it has to change for years now and it hasn't. In fact, if anything, it has got worse. Despite that, we've failed to sign one new centre back for a third successive summer. We've kept the same right back who's past his best. We've had a succession of left-backs - decent performers but all of whom we've failed to keep hold of - and we've lost the best keeper we had in years. Why did we need to sign Gary Harkins? What exactly does he bring to the table that McGowan/McLean/McGinn don't? Why have so many creative midfielders when we have one proven striker, who - let's face it - is in the twilight of his career, and no ball winners? We let Guy and Imrie go in the summer. But at least these guys could provide something of a back-up, and were much pacier/more energetic than Thommo. They were not particularly good, but they were better than having nothing at all, which is what we have now. If we were going to make one 'key' signing in the summer, a Harkins-type player was the last thing that we needed. A centre/right back, goalkeeper, ball-winning midfielder or striker would have been higher up the list.

So we may bring in Newton and Campbell. Good additions, possibly, but where does that then leave us in six months, a year's time? Back at square one, possibly even further back than that. Probably without McGowan. Possibly without McGregor, depending on how he recovers and performs. Possibly (or should that be probably) without Teale and Thompson. And definitely without an experienced keeper. So that's no playmaker, no winger, no right back, no goalscorer, no goalkeeper, another defender down and possibly more should other circumstances arise (not to mention the fringe players out of contract).

Where is the long-term vision here? We have a couple of good youngsters - McGinn, Reilly - but who else do we have that's proven they're good enough for our first team? Even Reilly is still to prove that he is capable of being a Premiership player on a consistent basis - not a fault of his own, as he was injured last year, but still a fact. And while it's great that we have these guys, where is the goalscoring talent we've produced ourselves? Where's the centre back or the goalkeeper we've developed through the youth ranks? We have a habit of producing talented midfielders, but we have next to nothing elsewhere. We haven't had that for years. That is concerning for the future of our football club. A John McGinn or Kenny McLean emerging once every two or three years is not an indication of a successful youth system. It's a reasonably successful midfield production line.

We did very well to come into the SPL and then stay up in our first season, seemingly against all odds. Since then, we've had a major helping hand - due to unusual circumstances - in avoiding relegation. This season might be the same. However, that isn't just 'our level' and I hate people saying that it is. 'Our level' doesn't really exist any more, as teams like Ross Co, St J, ICT have proven. Your level is as high as you want it to be, as long as you can do what you need to do to achieve that. We're constantly told that top six is our ambition; so when other clubs around us are achieving that, and we are not, surely that has to be seen as failure? If we're not making our targets, why are changes not forthcoming? Why are we not implementing the changes we need to achieve that, within our means? Is this the very best we can do? While teams around us build on the squads they have, we are left scrambling around to fill numerous positions in our team at the last minute. People say this is the perfect year to consolidate with Hearts being deducted 15 points; does that mean we weren't confident enough in our own potential last year to think we were able to do anything other than fight another relegation scrap with a weak Dundee team?

I'm not naive enough to think St Mirren can be a top four/five/six team consistently, year on year, for a long period of time. Ross Co, St J, ICT etc. will have their fall again. But we haven't even been there once. We have never looked like being there once. I want to know what our excuse is for that. St J finished third last year with a team which included a player we let go for not being good enough, and another of our former players who many didn't believe to be good enough. That not only tells us that we're not getting the best out of certain players, but that we CAN sign the standard of player required to get us to that kind of level. I'm just not sure we have the standard of manager or coaching staff to get us there.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This!

[kilwinningbuddie]

I think the biggest frustration in all of this for me is he lack of awareness from Danny Lennon and others at the club on the areas we need to improve in our team - for the longer term and not just the odd loan signing to fill a gap. You could say that the signings of Isma and Newton pretty much won us the League Cup last year, but where is the long-term view? Who replaces them when they inevitably leave for bigger and better things?

I'm so fed up of the soft goals we have given away pretty much since the first day Danny Lennon walked into this job. It's been glaringly obvious that it has to change for years now and it hasn't. In fact, if anything, it has got worse. Despite that, we've failed to sign one new centre back for a third successive summer. We've kept the same right back who's past his best. We've had a succession of left-backs - decent performers but all of whom we've failed to keep hold of - and we've lost the best keeper we had in years. Why did we need to sign Gary Harkins? What exactly does he bring to the table that McGowan/McLean/McGinn don't? Why have so many creative midfielders when we have one proven striker, who - let's face it - is in the twilight of his career, and no ball winners? We let Guy and Imrie go in the summer. But at least these guys could provide something of a back-up, and were much pacier/more energetic than Thommo. They were not particularly good, but they were better than having nothing at all, which is what we have now. If we were going to make one 'key' signing in the summer, a Harkins-type player was the last thing that we needed. A centre/right back, goalkeeper, ball-winning midfielder or striker would have been higher up the list.

So we may bring in Newton and Campbell. Good additions, possibly, but where does that then leave us in six months, a year's time? Back at square one, possibly even further back than that. Probably without McGowan. Possibly without McGregor, depending on how he recovers and performs. Possibly (or should that be probably) without Teale and Thompson. And definitely without an experienced keeper. So that's no playmaker, no winger, no right back, no goalscorer, no goalkeeper, another defender down and possibly more should other circumstances arise (not to mention the fringe players out of contract).

Where is the long-term vision here? We have a couple of good youngsters - McGinn, Reilly - but who else do we have that's proven they're good enough for our first team? Even Reilly is still to prove that he is capable of being a Premiership player on a consistent basis - not a fault of his own, as he was injured last year, but still a fact. And while it's great that we have these guys, where is the goalscoring talent we've produced ourselves? Where's the centre back or the goalkeeper we've developed through the youth ranks? We have a habit of producing talented midfielders, but we have next to nothing elsewhere. We haven't had that for years. That is concerning for the future of our football club. A John McGinn or Kenny McLean emerging once every two or three years is not an indication of a successful youth system. It's a reasonably successful midfield production line.

We did very well to come into the SPL and then stay up in our first season, seemingly against all odds. Since then, we've had a major helping hand - due to unusual circumstances - in avoiding relegation. This season might be the same. However, that isn't just 'our level' and I hate people saying that it is. 'Our level' doesn't really exist any more, as teams like Ross Co, St J, ICT have proven. Your level is as high as you want it to be, as long as you can do what you need to do to achieve that. We're constantly told that top six is our ambition; so when other clubs around us are achieving that, and we are not, surely that has to be seen as failure? If we're not making our targets, why are changes not forthcoming? Why are we not implementing the changes we need to achieve that, within our means? Is this the very best we can do? While teams around us build on the squads they have, we are left scrambling around to fill numerous positions in our team at the last minute. People say this is the perfect year to consolidate with Hearts being deducted 15 points; does that mean we weren't confident enough in our own potential last year to think we were able to do anything other than fight another relegation scrap with a weak Dundee team?

I'm not naive enough to think St Mirren can be a top four/five/six team consistently, year on year, for a long period of time. Ross Co, St J, ICT etc. will have their fall again. But we haven't even been there once. We have never looked like being there once. I want to know what our excuse is for that. St J finished third last year with a team which included a player we let go for not being good enough, and another of our former players who many didn't believe to be good enough. That not only tells us that we're not getting the best out of certain players, but that we CAN sign the standard of player required to get us to that kind of level. I'm just not sure we have the standard of manager or coaching staff to get us there.

Perfect

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

Indeed, albeit, McGowan's pass out to Zan Vanten was a long pass... and we caught Rangers on the break as they had pushed men forward to press us in our own half as we took a throw in.

I think the point being made though is that goals very seldom come about like that, particularly for St. Mirren. But a lot of fools see a goal like that (Danny Lennon most likely included) and use that as their justification for a style of play.

Most goals come from breaks of the balls, set plays, hitting teams on the break, scrappy play, long balls, etc. Without going into the stats (although I'd be quite happy to ), most goals come from a move of 1 pass or less and most of thise moves originate in the attacking third.

Teams like ICT and Ross County set out with the main aim of trying to win and set their tactics accordingly. They play direct and they fill their sides with big physical players and players with pace.

Danny Lennon and other clowns like him (John Hughes at Falkirk was a classic) set out with the main aim of "trying to play the game the right way" and within that framework then try to find the best way to win.

We have got it the wrong way round.

Yes, the best teams in the world play a great passing game. But they have the best players in the world at their disposal. The fact is that the worst teams in the world also attempt to play a passing game as well! :

Lennon & Craig should focus on winning games and factor their targets, signings and team selections around that. While their focus remains of "trying to play the game the right way" we are going to get nowhere.

Lennon won't change his ways however and its inevitable that he will be sacked.

Andy, I honestly don’t know why you continue coming out with different aliases when your basic argument remains the same.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes