div Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 From the very day the club was put on the market there has only really been one palatable outcome for me and that was to see St.Mirren fans owning the football club, either through a consortium of Saints minded businessmen (like we have today) or even more preferably though wider fan ownership. Simple fact is that nobody without affection for the club would buy a club like St.Mirren other than to make money out of it. To me the only models that would work there would be; 1) Buy the club then sell it back to the fans at a profit (like Ann Budge is trying to do at Hearts) 2) Buy the club using money secured on it's assets, and pay back the loans using club revenue 3) Buy the club and use it as a stage for players ie; owned by agents (eg the hugely unsuccessful Claude Anelka model) There is really no other logical business model for anyone buying St.Mirren unless they are St.Mirren fans. We are not big enough to attract a Sheikh Mansour type investment, nor should we really be looking for a sugar daddy anyway. That model doesn't work. Owned by the fans was and is the right model for St.Mirren. That was on offer before, and it was rejected so we are where we are ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Don't want McGeoch and GLS anything to do with the club? GLS made at least two offers to buy the consortium shares but they were knocked back. As things stand, he (and McGeoch, presumably) have worthless shares, so I can see why they'd take this opportunity to sell them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) From the very day the club was put on the market there has only really been one palatable outcome for me and that was to see St.Mirren fans owning the football club, either through a consortium of Saints minded businessmen (like we have today) or even more preferably though wider fan ownership. Simple fact is that nobody without affection for the club would buy a club like St.Mirren other than to make money out of it. To me the only models that would work there would be; 1) Buy the club then sell it back to the fans at a profit (like Ann Budge is trying to do at Hearts) 2) Buy the club using money secured on it's assets, and pay back the loans using club revenue 3) Buy the club and use it as a stage for players ie; owned by agents (eg the hugely unsuccessful Claude Anelka model) There is really no other logical business model for anyone buying St.Mirren unless they are St.Mirren fans. We are not big enough to attract a Sheikh Mansour type investment, nor should we really be looking for a sugar daddy anyway. That model doesn't work. Owned by the fans was and is the right model for St.Mirren. That was on offer before, and it was rejected so we are where we are ! As it currently stands Annes model with FoH does not return her a profit, only a lack of inflation reduction. She will only get the £2.5m back plus the inflation and interest change that she would have got had the money stayed in the bank for the 3-5 years that FoH will take to pay it back Edited March 21, 2014 by rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) From the very day the club was put on the market there has only really been one palatable outcome for me and that was to see St.Mirren fans owning the football club, either through a consortium of Saints minded businessmen (like we have today) or even more preferably though wider fan ownership. Simple fact is that nobody without affection for the club would buy a club like St.Mirren other than to make money out of it. To me the only models that would work there would be; 1) Buy the club then sell it back to the fans at a profit (like Ann Budge is trying to do at Hearts) 2) Buy the club using money secured on it's assets, and pay back the loans using club revenue 3) Buy the club and use it as a stage for players ie; owned by agents (eg the hugely unsuccessful Claude Anelka model) There is really no other logical business model for anyone buying St.Mirren unless they are St.Mirren fans. We are not big enough to attract a Sheikh Mansour type investment, nor should we really be looking for a sugar daddy anyway. That model doesn't work. Owned by the fans was and is the right model for St.Mirren. That was on offer before, and it was rejected so we are where we are ! Absolutely this. Suddenly Danny's tenure as manager at the club has receded into the background in terms of importance. We now have a bigger talking point to concern oureselves with, but little scope to influence any outcome. Worrying times, for me. Fasten your seatbelts folks, we could be in for a rocky ride.... ETA: in fairness to the current BoD, they have been been looking to get out for some time now, and have been subject to a fair degree of sniping from the sidelines (yes....I've been on the sidelines from time to time), so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that it has come to this - whatever 'this' is, if indeed it is anything at all. I wonder if we'll be looking back to the recent era as a golden age for our club. FFS, that's it, I'm now officially shitting myself over this! Where's faraway to stick the boot in? Edited March 21, 2014 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 All we can really do is sit back and wait and see. The current board have performed miracles at the club since they took over, they are all Saints minded and they have turned down offers in the past because the proposed purchasers were shady. They won't want their legacy to be remembered as being the people who saved the club but then killed it by handing it over to the wrong people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Absolutely this. Suddenly Danny's tenure as manager at the club has receded into the background in terms of importance. We now have a bigger talking point to concern oureselves with, but little scope to influence any outcome. Worrying times, for me. Fasten your seatbelts folks, we could be in for a rocky ride.... ETA: in fairness to the current BoD, they have been been looking to get out for some time now, and have been subject to a fair degree of sniping from the sidelines (yes....I've been on the sidelines from time to time), so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that it has come to this - whatever 'this' is, if indeed it is anything at all. I wonder if we'll be looking back to the recent era as a golden age for our club. FFS, that's it, I'm now officially shitting myself over this! Where's faraway to stick the boot in? Nacho Novo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Don't want McGeoch and GLS anything to do with the club? I'm guessing that they are feeling a bit shafted by the "consortium" and would happily walk away. I'd also guess they are even less happy about sitting round the table with this mob (not "the mob") and will take a pence in the pound deal to get rid if this comes to pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) All we can really do is sit back and wait and see. The current board have performed miracles at the club since they took over, they are all Saints minded and they have turned down offers in the past because the proposed purchasers were shady. They won't want their legacy to be remembered as being the people who saved the club but then killed it by handing it over to the wrong people. Let's hope so. I'm actually feeling a wee bit sick to the stomach thinking about all of this - WTF is all that about?!?! It just goes to show how this club can get to us. As a father of two daughters, this feels a bit like hearing that they've been hanging about with the wide lad who drives too fast in his souped up motor, boasts to his mates about all the lassies he has shagged, and, worst of all, is an Old Firm supporter. Hey, he might turn out to be a thoroughly decent lad, but the intial indicators aren't promising. Edited March 21, 2014 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 From the very day the club was put on the market there has only really been one palatable outcome for me and that was to see St.Mirren fans owning the football club, either through a consortium of Saints minded businessmen (like we have today) or even more preferably though wider fan ownership. Simple fact is that nobody without affection for the club would buy a club like St.Mirren other than to make money out of it. To me the only models that would work there would be; 1) Buy the club then sell it back to the fans at a profit (like Ann Budge is trying to do at Hearts) 2) Buy the club using money secured on it's assets, and pay back the loans using club revenue 3) Buy the club and use it as a stage for players ie; owned by agents (eg the hugely unsuccessful Claude Anelka model) There is really no other logical business model for anyone buying St.Mirren unless they are St.Mirren fans. We are not big enough to attract a Sheikh Mansour type investment, nor should we really be looking for a sugar daddy anyway. That model doesn't work. Owned by the fans was and is the right model for St.Mirren. That was on offer before, and it was rejected so we are where we are ! I understand what you are implying there Buddie , but I don't necessarily agree , as there are a couple of clubs , arguably smaller than ourselves , in the same league as us , that are able to bid above us for players. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Budge at Hearts gets to run the club for a minimum of five years for £2.5m... and she can decide if she ever wants to hand it to FoH The 8000 or so fans signed up to pay direct debits in each month will probably put treble that in over five years and own nothing..! and still be buying ST;s Tickets and merchandise.... Who gets the best deal here..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) I understand what you are implying there Buddie , but I don't necessarily agree , as there are a couple of clubs , arguably smaller than ourselves , in the same league as us , that are able to bid above us for players. . It can work in the short-medium term, but it seldom ends well. That said, I'd happily welcome a fellow Buddie with a few million in his back bin coming in just now (given the possible alternatives). Edited March 21, 2014 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Remember the fun we and all other scottish football fans had when the Easdales "Double Decker" stormed castle GreySkull..? Well apart from the Vat case several years ago they look squeaky clean compared to... We are going to be the new laughing stock... Still I bet that LAUNDRY is going to see a significant cash flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I understand what you are implying there Buddie , but I don't necessarily agree , as there are a couple of clubs , arguably smaller than ourselves , in the same league as us , that are able to bid above us for players. . Yes that is fair comment. I think a sugar daddy with a real affinity for the club at least has a chance (ICT and St.Johnstone) but it does still leave a longer term problem and you are always going to be at the risk of that person befalling harder times in their business that is propping up the football club. Gretna is the most obvious example of that. Then there is the likes of Romanov at Hearts, the Marr brothers at Dundee and so on and so forth. Short term gain and long term pain. Look at Leeds Utd and Portsmouth as two bigger examples. I don't want anyone gambling with our clubs future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I understand what you are implying there Buddie , but I don't necessarily agree , as there are a couple of clubs , arguably smaller than ourselves , in the same league as us , that are able to bid above us for players. . That will be Ross County and ICT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Budge at Hearts gets to run the club for a minimum of five years for £2.5m... and she can decide if she ever wants to hand it to FoH The 8000 or so fans signed up to pay direct debits in each month will probably put treble that in over five years and own nothing..! and still be buying ST;s Tickets and merchandise.... Who gets the best deal here..? as part of the CVA there will be a contract between Bidco e.g AB and Fanco eg FoH. It is not her choice to decide if she hands it over or not if any FoH money is used. If the FoH members dont like the deal they dont need to stay as members, uses exactly the same system as 10000hours did so has to be run in consultation with those that are as you say funding the Club through its CVA process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yes that is fair comment. I think a sugar daddy with a real affinity for the club at least has a chance (ICT and St.Johnstone) but it does still leave a longer term problem and you are always going to be at the risk of that person befalling harder times in their business that is propping up the football club. Gretna is the most obvious example of that. Then there is the likes of Romanov at Hearts, the Marr brothers at Dundee and so on and so forth. Short term gain and long term pain. Look at Leeds Utd and Portsmouth as two bigger examples. I don't want anyone gambling with our clubs future. Benevolent Dictatorship is fine....just never one around when you need one. To paraphrase ...... After that is Fan Democracy....the worst form of ownership except for all the other ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Remember the fun we and all other scottish football fans had when the Easdales "Double Decker" stormed castle GreySkull..? Well apart from the Vat case several years ago they look squeaky clean compared to... We are going to be the new laughing stock... Still I bet that LAUNDRY is going to see a significant cash flow:whistle as part of the CVA there will be a contract between Bidco e.g AB and Fanco eg FoH. It is not her choice to decide if she hands it over or not if any FoH money is used. If the FoH members dont like the deal they dont need to stay as members, uses exactly the same system as 10000hours did so has to be run in consultation with those that are as you say funding the Club through its CVA process **hides behind the sofa** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 75% or 75% + 1 share gives you a number of extra powers, the passing of special resolutions at an AGM is the main one so what the say and do is unstoppable. With the Herald running the story and what Billyg has been posting negotiations sound like they are at a advanced stage. Have to say I'm worried. Div wrote fan ownership is the only safe way of running the club which is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 so what the say and do is unstoppable. With the Herald running the story and what Billyg has been posting negotiations sound like they are at a advanced stage. Have to say I'm worried. Div wrote fan ownership is the only safe way of running the club which is correct. Pretty much 75% gives you carte blanch. When the first 10000hours deal fell through the idea of buying the shares personally and then selling them back was looked at and was spoken about at one of the many many many....public meetings, The biggest issue with doing it was the legal advice said that 52% was simply not enough for them to recommend that as a route. However a 10% secondary held shareholding does still have some power, although getting that could prove very difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 New company formed in December , St Mirren Development Ltd, one of the Directors Liam O Donnel is a housing developer An Andrew Murray , the other Director is a sports consultant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 as part of the CVA there will be a contract between Bidco e.g AB and Fanco eg FoH. It is not her choice to decide if she hands it over or not if any FoH money is used. If the FoH members dont like the deal they dont need to stay as members, uses exactly the same system as 10000hours did so has to be run in consultation with those that are as you say funding the Club through its CVA process The FoH members when they dug deep to commit to the club in every way they could did not know (or majority aware) that their subs would be used, not to buy the club.... but to pay to run it on Ann's behalf.... for at least five years, or whenever she feels like reliquishing.... She is prepared to pay her £2.5m fair do's.... but thats one hell of a risk free gig to get where you come out of of it so well whatever the outcome. And as you say they (FOH members) are at liberty to pull their subs as and when. If their rvival doesn't go as hoped quite a few could do just that (football fans are fickle like that) then Ann will be their for the duration using FoH money (albeit reducing) to run the club. FOMA.... Fan Ownership My Arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 New company formed in December , St Mirren Development Ltd, one of the Directors Liam O Donnel is a housing developer An Andrew Murray , the other Director is a sports consultant. You sure ? The web search I did on it say it was founded by Mr Neil Andrew Murray, Mr Liam O'donnell. Neil Murray was the former Rangers player credited to be part of the "Swiss Consortium" (Murray spent the last part of his playing career in Switzerland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The FoH members when they dug deep to commit to the club in every way they could did not know (or majority aware) that their subs would be used, not to buy the club.... but to pay to run it on Ann's behalf.... for at least five years, or whenever she feels like reliquishing.... She is prepared to pay her £2.5m fair do's.... but thats one hell of a risk free gig to get where you come out of of it so well whatever the outcome. And as you say they (FOH members) are at liberty to pull their subs as and when. If their rvival doesn't go as hoped quite a few could do just that (football fans are fickle like that) then Ann will be their for the duration using FoH money (albeit reducing) to run the club. FOMA.... Fan Ownership My Arse! Sure it would have been great if the Fans had been organised years earlier so that they had a lump sum of cash for the CVA. (FoH actually does now have about 800K banked) but that was not the case, someone needs to front fund it, just like at the Pars and Pompey. Key thing is always for the Fans to be ready for whatever happens next, but it is seldom if ever the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 You sure ? The web search I did on it say it was founded by Mr Neil Andrew Murray, Mr Liam O'donnell. Neil Murray was the former Rangers player credited to be part of the "Swiss Consortium" (Murray spent the last part of his playing career in Switzerland). well let's watch the council missives for a change of use application for Ralston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Sure it would have been great if the Fans had been organised years earlier so that they had a lump sum of cash for the CVA. (FoH actually does now have about 800K banked) but that was not the case, someone needs to front fund it, just like at the Pars and Pompey. Key thing is always for the Fans to be ready for whatever happens next, but it is seldom if ever the case I tell you what though.... If the purported 75+1% buyer takes control.... Makes a few changes to things like say.... the company providing Security/Stewarding When they tell anyone to sit down, those arses will hit the seats in double quick time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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