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Buy The Buds

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Questions like this need to be answered by the committee members in the buyout group Richard, i will give you my answer, but all questions of this ilk need to be directed to [email protected] to get the official line.

As far as i understand it £10 goes to buy shares and £2 is for SMiSA funds for the members of SMiSA to decide on where they are spent. Referred to recently as a "rainy day" fund, but in truth it's just what SMiSA do now.

Indeed that is what happens, it is a question of is the £12 total the membership fee or the £2 remaining, currently it is £12 membership fee.

The thing is the Rain Day fund after the £10 years will need to be more than that, it will need to cover any cash flow and investment issues and the key thing is it will need to cover Stadium Maintenance.

At the moment the Stadium is being depreciated at a rapid rate which is the biggest reason why the accounts always show a loss, however the club is making little provision for the fact that at some stage rather than just accepting the depreciation charge the Club is actually going to have a big maintenance bill to fund.........perhaps needing new carpets, or lift, or replace the Tanoy or undersoil heating, to Dome has a shelf life.

Within the 10000hours proposal once the money was paid back it was noted that we would anticipate continuing the Direct Debits in order to keep the stadium maintained in tip top condition, i personally think the Bid team would be well advised to sell this longer term vision and commitment as i personally believe when the fans have full control much more money than just the purchase price will be needed

#BuytheBuds4life !

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Indeed that is what happens, it is a question of is the £12 total the membership fee or the £2 remaining, currently it is £12 membership fee.

The thing is the Rain Day fund after the £10 years will need to be more than that, it will need to cover any cash flow and investment issues and the key thing is it will need to cover Stadium Maintenance.

At the moment the Stadium is being depreciated at a rapid rate which is the biggest reason why the accounts always show a loss, however the club is making little provision for the fact that at some stage rather than just accepting the depreciation charge the Club is actually going to have a big maintenance bill to fund.........perhaps needing new carpets, or lift, or replace the Tanoy or undersoil heating, to Dome has a shelf life.

Within the 10000hours proposal once the money was paid back it was noted that we would anticipate continuing the Direct Debits in order to keep the stadium maintained in tip top condition, i personally think the Bid team would be well advised to sell this longer term vision and commitment as i personally believe when the fans have full control much more money than just the purchase price will be needed

#BuytheBuds4life !

Need to keep on at Gordon for the ground to be maintained and look at funding the upkeep of the stadium, Gordon will have plans for it i'm sure.

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Indeed that is what happens, it is a question of is the £12 total the membership fee or the £2 remaining, currently it is £12 membership fee.

The thing is the Rain Day fund after the £10 years will need to be more than that, it will need to cover any cash flow and investment issues and the key thing is it will need to cover Stadium Maintenance.

At the moment the Stadium is being depreciated at a rapid rate which is the biggest reason why the accounts always show a loss, however the club is making little provision for the fact that at some stage rather than just accepting the depreciation charge the Club is actually going to have a big maintenance bill to fund.........perhaps needing new carpets, or lift, or replace the Tanoy or undersoil heating, to Dome has a shelf life.

Within the 10000hours proposal once the money was paid back it was noted that we would anticipate continuing the Direct Debits in order to keep the stadium maintained in tip top condition, i personally think the Bid team would be well advised to sell this longer term vision and commitment as i personally believe when the fans have full control much more money than just the purchase price will be needed

#BuytheBuds4life !

Hopefully with a new board comes new ideas and therefore more money, that can be utilised for such a long with extra budget for the obvious team needs.

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Yes, for normal SMiSA core business, the buyout bid is different though - it has been set by the buyout group because there is a target to achieve.

That's what I was led to believe as well but reading through the constitution I noticed this.

12. The Society Board will decide and issue a form of application for membership. Members are to pay an annual subscription of such reasonable sum as the Society Board shall decide, the first payment to be made at the time of application for membership. The sum of £1 from the first payment shall be applied to purchase an ordinary share in the Society.

I cant see anywhere that its the members that decide/vote on.

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Need to keep on at Gordon for the ground to be maintained and look at funding the upkeep of the stadium, Gordon will have plans for it i'm sure.

Like Foundation of Hearts I would expect there should be a contract between the two parties. In there case Bidco and Fanco

If the relationship responsibilities and future is not well understood at the start it is a recipe for issues than can easily be avoided at the start and with some attention to detail now.

Potential members and those already joined should have visibility of the deal and the terms if transparency is a priority and as you say spending on upkeep should be a clause...no point in SMiSA buying a majority after 10years for a price agreed now if no money is invested as needed in the interim period.

What this will mean however is that the Club will need to run an accounting surplus and not just a cash one.

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That's what I was led to believe as well but reading through the constitution I noticed this.

12. The Society Board will decide and issue a form of application for membership. Members are to pay an annual subscription of such reasonable sum as the Society Board shall decide, the first payment to be made at the time of application for membership. The sum of £1 from the first payment shall be applied to purchase an ordinary share in the Society.

I cant see anywhere that its the members that decide/vote on.

This is correct and is this way for all trusts however as it is a members organisation if the members don't like what the board do they can easily replace them

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This is correct and is this way for all trusts however as it is a members organisation if the members don't like what the board do they can easily replace them

Don't tell him that Richard, he'll be voting me out next AGM.

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Don't tell him that Richard, he'll be voting me out next AGM.

Relax BC, not a member YET. whistling.gif

Just trying to look at the future after we/us/who knows have paid the 10 years of £12 monthly installments.

If somehow some folk who turn out not to be working in the best interests of all, hike up the amount that's needed to be members to a level that only a few of them can afford. They could take control of the shareholding that SMiSA holds. Leaving those that have paid in for all those years with SFA.

Possibly an extreme example but is a possibility if I've read the constitution correctly.

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Relax BC, not a member YET. whistling.gif

Just trying to look at the future after we/us/who knows have paid the 10 years of £12 monthly installments.

If somehow some folk who turn out not to be working in the best interests of all, hike up the amount that's needed to be members to a level that only a few of them can afford. They could take control of the shareholding that SMiSA holds. Leaving those that have paid in for all those years with SFA.

Possibly an extreme example but is a possibility if I've read the constitution correctly.

Members can call a special general meeting (SGM), and the majority vote at the meeting will prevail. I am not a legal eagle by any means, but i can assure you that I for one would not hesitate to inform members and call an SGM if anything gave me cause for concern, that said i have complete confidence in the existing board members of SMiSA and trust them not to do anything untoward. I would even go as far as stating the current board, should they wish to, should be the ones to see out the entire 10 years of the process. Just my opinion based on spending over a year with them at meetings, sometimes twice a week in that year.

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Relax BC, not a member YET. whistling.gif

Just trying to look at the future after we/us/who knows have paid the 10 years of £12 monthly installments.

If somehow some folk who turn out not to be working in the best interests of all, hike up the amount that's needed to be members to a level that only a few of them can afford. They could take control of the shareholding that SMiSA holds. Leaving those that have paid in for all those years with SFA.

Possibly an extreme example but is a possibility if I've read the constitution correctly.

Two quick points:

1 - The trust is one member one vote - the membership fee is decided by the membership - so the scenario you describe could only happen if the members voted for it.

2 - the constitution of the trust (and I believe a condition of being part of SD) is that membership has to be 'affordable' and open to all. Whilst this is a bit subjective, ultimately it would protect against the situation you describe.

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Two quick points:

1 - The trust is one member one vote - the membership fee is decided by the membership - so the scenario you describe could only happen if the members voted for it.

2 - the constitution of the trust (and I believe a condition of being part of SD) is that membership has to be 'affordable' and open to all. Whilst this is a bit subjective, ultimately it would protect against the situation you describe.

The first point is not technically correct. The board decide but obviously the membership decide the board.

Not a condition of SD membership as such but is a condition of being a trust either a CBS or IPS which then allows you membership of SD .

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I agree with the above concern. You commit to 10 years and get nothing in return

If your looking for something in return, the answer is you have your club in the hands of the people who care most about it's continued survival. SMiSA is a not for profit trust and if it were to somehow fold then all funds have to be given to a similar community benefit trust (Could be another SMFC fans trust that sets up) or a charity.

Quite simply you don't sign up to something like this and expect to walk away with anything other than the satisfaction and pride that you were part of it all. Hopefully you never choose walk away from it at all, without good reason.

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That's a hard one but I think a minimum would a 5 shares that way you literally own the club. But the bulk of shares will be owned by SMISA

It would be a token amount but not enough to affect the running of the bid aims and goals

For 2500 you get 10 shares. So for £1400 you 5 and if after 10 years you stop or walk away you have something to show for your commitment

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HSS, apologies, for delay, i am checking this out right now

David got back to me not long after this so cheers for that.

Again my point is.....a missed e-mail could be a missed £12.People who were maybe swithering about joining and wouldn't bother because they've not had a reply to a mail.

Anyway.....keep up the good work.

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If your looking for something in return, the answer is you have your club in the hands of the people who care most about it's continued survival. SMiSA is a not for profit trust and if it were to somehow fold then all funds have to be given to a similar community benefit trust (Could be another SMFC fans trust that sets up) or a charity.

Quite simply you don't sign up to something like this and expect to walk away with anything other than the satisfaction and pride that you were part of it all. Hopefully you never choose walk away from it at all, without good reason.

As you wrote previously and again above is something that no one can deny regarding any of the SMiSA's board this now.

I was only highlighting a scenario that we/the members have got to watch out for.

For example, if the board was to increase the fee's how much notice do they have to give the members? I cant see anything.

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What, exactly, do you want in return?

Me personally, I don't want anything. All I want is to play my part in giving the club I love to the people who I hope will always keep its best interests at heart. I already have my 10 shares, my brick in the wall and will more than likely still be a season ticket holder in 10 years. For me doing my bit is enough.

However I was talking to my brother about it a couple of weeks ago. He is a saints fan but isn't a share holder and doesn't go week in week out. A tenner a month wouldn't be a struggle for him but I found it hard to explain to him why he would want to do it, even though I'm a believer that it is a great way forward.

Some sort of recognition may encourage some people. For example if you pay £12 per month for 10 years you become and honoury member? Or you get a name on a board or in a book in the stadium as a someone who helped bring the club to the people. Maybe a I bought the buds certificate or something.

I know things like these cost money but it gives people (who aren't as close to the club or SMISA) a feeling that they are buying into something.

The guys who signed up for the bar, get their names on a board, they get a private drinking bar and a parking space, yet guys joining SMISA could help put the club into a safe ownership but get no credit for it. As I say safe ownership is enough for me but might not be enough for some others to part with their cash.

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Me personally, I don't want anything. All I want is to play my part in giving the club I love to the people who I hope will always keep its best interests at heart. I already have my 10 shares, my brick in the wall and will more than likely still be a season ticket holder in 10 years. For me doing my bit is enough.

However I was talking to my brother about it a couple of weeks ago. He is a saints fan but isn't a share holder and doesn't go week in week out. A tenner a month wouldn't be a struggle for him but I found it hard to explain to him why he would want to do it, even though I'm a believer that it is a great way forward.

Some sort of recognition may encourage some people. For example if you pay £12 per month for 10 years you become and honoury member? Or you get a name on a board or in a book in the stadium as a someone who helped bring the club to the people. Maybe a I bought the buds certificate or something.

I know things like these cost money but it gives people (who aren't as close to the club or SMISA) a feeling that they are buying into something.

The guys who signed up for the bar, get their names on a board, they get a private drinking bar and a parking space, yet guys joining SMISA could help put the club into a safe ownership but get no credit for it. As I say safe ownership is enough for me but might not be enough for some others to part with their cash.

Good post

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The first point is not technically correct. The board decide but obviously the membership decide the board.

Not a condition of SD membership as such but is a condition of being a trust either a CBS or IPS which then allows you membership of SD .

Well it depends how you interpret the wording. The board sets the subscription rate and a change to that rate is (arguably) a change to the society's rules - although I get where you are coming from. And as you point out - if the members are unhappy at the decision, they can easily vote to replace the board.

The second point is really more crucial - ultimately if 'future smisa board' decided to set the membership fee at a rate that was deliberately prohibitive, they would be in breach of their own rules, the spirit of SD more importantly, the laws governing CBSs.

I think we agree - its pretty unlikely.

Edited by BLF

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Me personally, I don't want anything. All I want is to play my part in giving the club I love to the people who I hope will always keep its best interests at heart. I already have my 10 shares, my brick in the wall and will more than likely still be a season ticket holder in 10 years. For me doing my bit is enough.

However I was talking to my brother about it a couple of weeks ago. He is a saints fan but isn't a share holder and doesn't go week in week out. A tenner a month wouldn't be a struggle for him but I found it hard to explain to him why he would want to do it, even though I'm a believer that it is a great way forward.

Some sort of recognition may encourage some people. For example if you pay £12 per month for 10 years you become and honoury member? Or you get a name on a board or in a book in the stadium as a someone who helped bring the club to the people. Maybe a I bought the buds certificate or something.

I know things like these cost money but it gives people (who aren't as close to the club or SMISA) a feeling that they are buying into something.

The guys who signed up for the bar, get their names on a board, they get a private drinking bar and a parking space, yet guys joining SMISA could help put the club into a safe ownership but get no credit for it. As I say safe ownership is enough for me but might not be enough for some others to part with their cash.

The Smisa website says there will be some form of recognition in the main stand for the fans who back the bid.

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