The Politics Thread

[WeeBud]

9 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Not remotely my point.

The reasons you give, accurate or not, are outwith my control and, as I said, I didn't expect the government to bail me out when times were hard.

We've become a nation with less and less responsibility and more and more expectation to be "helped" when we used to help ourselves. 

I agree with most of this FS but the interest rates and mortgage payment rises are an absolute result of the craziness of the Truss/Kwarteng 30 days in charge and the markets reaction to it......I'm not sure the Government should ordinarily be bailing people out but they should at least take responsibility for the mess they've created.

[faraway saint]

Just now, WeeBud said:

I agree with most of this FS but the interest rates and mortgage payment rises are an absolute result of the craziness of the Truss/Kwarteng 30 days in charge and the markets reaction to it......I'm not sure the Government should ordinarily be bailing people out but they should at least take responsibility for the mess they've created.

It was quite a lot of damage in a short space of time but I'm not convinced the current issues are down to that clusterfcuk. 

[WeeBud]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

It was quite a lot of damage in a short space of time but I'm not convinced the current issues are down to that clusterfcuk. 

There may be some other factors in play but their is no doubt that a huge part of the problem is as a result of that "clusterf**k"......all you actually have to do is look at the timeline. Add into that that the countries credit rating isn't great at the moment and there are knock on results for all. Interest rates going up to control inflation, inflation as a result of Truss/Kwarteng (markets losing confidence and a hole of £64Bn needing backfilled), Brexit and the convenient excuse of Ukraine.....the majority of this is a shambles of the Governments making (in my humble view of course 😉)

[Wilbur]

Regardless of where the blame lies for the screaming rises in mortgage rates I agree with FS that there should be no government intervention to help out those borrowers that now find themselves struggling financially. Nobody forced them into the level of debt they have, it was entirely their choice. And how many of those pleading for government help are also driving around in fancy BMWs, Audis, Mercedes etc that they can't actually afford, taken out on lease deals ? Why should the British public be responsible for coughing up more tax revenue for their benefit ? What about the millions of UK taxpayers who can't afford to climb onto the property ladder - how would they feel about paying someone else's mortgage for them ?

[ALBIONSAINT]

It’s good for us savers, ISA interest rates at 5% it’s like living in 2004 again! 

[Wilbur]

14 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

It’s good for us savers, ISA interest rates at 5% it’s like living in 2004 again! 

Aye, and inflation sitting at 10%.

Bloody brilliant for savers. Fill yer boots !

[faraway saint]

24 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

It’s good for us savers, ISA interest rates at 5% it’s like living in 2004 again! 

Indeed, comparatively speaking this has rocketed as the rate for savings has been rock bottom for years.

Make hay etc. 

[Tommy]

A new built in Renfrew (Deanfield) in 1983 was around 34K for a 3 bed semi with garage that would have been around 4 times my annual wages.

Where i live now, a new build 3 bed semi without garage, is around 285K which would have been 7 times my annual wages if i was still working. 

I think a lot of the problem is most people are now paying for things that didn't exist many years ago like mobile phones, internet, sky etc.

Also think there is a lack of patient with young people wanting the big family house right away, instead of working their way up to it. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

15 minutes ago, Tommy said:

A new built in Renfrew (Deanfield) in 1983 was around 34K for a 3 bed semi with garage that would have been around 4 times my annual wages.

Where i live now, a new build 3 bed semi without garage, is around 285K which would have been 7 times my annual wages if i was still working. 

I think a lot of the problem is most people are now paying for things that didn't exist many years ago like mobile phones, internet, sky etc.

Also think there is a lack of patient with young people wanting the big family house right away, instead of working their way up to it. 

It’s the Amazon prime generation, everything on demand right now. When it comes to accumulating debt this can be a terrible trait. 

[rabuddies]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:21 AM, Wilbur said:

Bloody brilliant for savers. Fill yer boots !

Aye, right.  That's why the Bank of England are investigating why banks are not passing on rates to customers.

[Wilbur]

47 minutes ago, rabuddies said:

Aye, right.  That's why the Bank of England are investigating why banks are not passing on rates to customers.

So does that make 5% p.a. a great investment when inflation is at 10% ? There are no cash investments currently available that won't lose the investor money (ie buying power) over the term of the investment. 

 

[Albanian Buddy]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

So does that make 5% p.a. a great investment when inflation is at 10% ? There are no cash investments currently available that won't lose the investor money (ie buying power) over the term of the investment. 

 

Keeping cash is not a good investment strategy but you already know that. 

I’m guessing but hopefully you are now mortgage free and will have decent work (DB and DC) pensions as well as full state pension which will provide a regular guaranteed income stream to deal with these uncertain times. 

I’m sure it’s going to get much worse before it gets better. 

 

[beyond our ken]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:52 PM, StanleySaint said:

MrsS and I were talking about this earlier today, it is a result of people being encouraged to buy the most expensive property as they can afford but not taking account that interest rates can rise as well as fall, financial advice/education is sadly lacking!

I think I always bought the most expensive property i could afford and in the long term it has worked.  I was encouraged to take that strategy by friends & family and we have been happy in the same house for 33 years now, though it is much changed and ready for anothe revamp.  

The effects of the tory plans in the early 90s led to my mortgage tripling in a week and i'd say it took 2 years to get over that despite massive government spending to stabilise the market for borrowers.  We just scraped through but some of my neighbours sold up or were repossessed, my son still talks about the time half his pals all but disappeared in a space of months.  Anybody else within 10 years of my age benefitted from that indirect support and that probably covers most of the posters on this thread

Best advice i would give is to consider either a current account mortgage or a pension-linked mortgage, if they are still available.  When you can get between 20 & 40% tax relief on anything you put in your pension then even the lack of growth in the financial markets will be negated.  I am lucky ebough to be at the peak of my earnings and able to take advantage of the pension tax relief

 

As for help, of course we should give it where it is needed, the alternative to buying a home is renting and the lack of availability of both new homes to purchase and good quality rented stock is not the fault of those seeking to get started.  Many of us are sitting on massive gains made on purchases made decades ago and many others are relying on a tight market to fund their own lifestyles.  All of that is making it hard for young families to get decent and appropriate housing.

I was out of work for many months in the early 80s and finally got a permanent job that paid enough to live on because the company got a big slice of my first year's salary back from the Thatcher government and despite my feelings about her I was mighty glad of it.  The rent rebate that i was getting on my council house was continued until the end of the financial year which was another 10 months and within 2 years  i was suddenly & unexpectedly in the position to be able to buy our own place on just one wage, I had to sell my car to do so and forego most of my journeys to Love st for a couple more years but without that help I would never have got going in life.  

If you are getting any kind of tax relief on pensions or other investments, home insulation grants, or a range of other programmes then you are getting "help" that families who might have 2 full time earners and still struggle may not get, so let's not kid ourseves that we don't get help.  We all do!

[beyond our ken]

    ,

Edited June 21, 2023 by beyond our ken

[beyond our ken]

17 hours ago, Wilbur said:

So does that make 5% p.a. a great investment when inflation is at 10% ? There are no cash investments currently available that won't lose the investor money (ie buying power) over the term of the investment. 

 

we just have to swallow the bitter pill that most of the investments we make just now wont make us money but are better than losing more if we do nothing

[beyond our ken]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:06 AM, faraway saint said:

It was quite a lot of damage in a short space of time but I'm not convinced the current issues are down to that clusterfcuk. 

More down to the resilience that the UK governments took out of the economy after the  crash and Tory austerity.  Things are being portrayed as better than they are by the government, but they fail to mention the very low base we have been on for years and if you look at that we going to be worse off for longer than people in many other countries.

 

I have always taken the view that we will be OK in the long run but struggle to see how I could sell that to younger people today

[Rascal]

On 6/19/2023 at 12:41 PM, Tommy said:

A new built in Renfrew (Deanfield) in 1983 was around 34K for a 3 bed semi with garage that would have been around 4 times my annual wages.

Where i live now, a new build 3 bed semi without garage, is around 285K which would have been 7 times my annual wages if i was still working. 

I think a lot of the problem is most people are now paying for things that didn't exist many years ago like mobile phones, internet, sky etc.

Also think there is a lack of patient with young people wanting the big family house right away, instead of working their way up to it. 

I worked in the mortgage and financial sector from 1966 to 1992. During this time the government actively encouraged home ownership including (as mentioned before) tax relief on mortgage interest and life insurance policies plus no capital gains on the sale of your main property. Lenders advanced a basic level without guarantee that might be around 80% or so of value or price, whichever was the lower. Wage multiples were 2 to 2.5 times the males earnings. In the early 70s a major change took place when joint incomes started to be taken into account….that meant the the woman’s wage helped to extend the amount that could be borrowed. Thatcher encouraged the sale of council houses at highly discounted prices and together with lenders ensured that guarantees were in place. 100% loans became almost commonplace. Banks and building societies couldn’t raise enough funds to satisfy demand. Lenders had mortgage quotas. I know , I ran 10 branches each of which had their own allocated amounts. Lenders pressed the government to deregulate and allow them to access on personal savings to increase the supply of monies to facilitate growth. Lenders extended multiples to 4 or 5 times earnings. Some offered 120% mortgages . All of which was based on the premise that whatever the interest rate, property values were growing faster making it a net gain on an annual basis. They did and laid the foundation of the future financial catastrophe. Meanwhile government decided to withdraw the tax relief on mortgage interest and life insurance. They haven’t taken away the exemption from capital gains tax yet! Anyone with an elderly relative who needs to go into care will recognise that their home is very often taken into account when assessing payment. Sorry guys. Various governments hands are all over the policies which led us to this point. IMO. However, I agree that people seem to expect more, sooner and without fully understanding the impact if things go wrong as they often will. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Rascal

[antrin]

This is the place in which politics should be posted, I am told.

Here is a link to an Israeli attack this morning…

…on a refugee camp.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/03/palestinians-killed-israeli-strike-west-bank-jenin

 

No St Mirren player was involved in the attack.

[Albanian Buddy]

2 hours ago, antrin said:

No St Mirren player was involved in the attack.

People dying completely unnecessarily and you just can’t resist making an irrelevant comment to point score on this forum. 

Yes I appreciate I’ve now just done the same but I would not have responded otherwise. 

RIP to all those innocent people who died needlessly. 
 

[faraway saint]

13 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

People dying completely unnecessarily and you just can’t resist making an irrelevant comment to point score on this forum. 

Yes I appreciate I’ve now just done the same but I would not have responded otherwise. 

RIP to all those innocent people who died needlessly. 
 

What an utter fcukwit to make a comment like that. 👎

[antrin]

10 hours ago, Albanian Buddy said:

People dying completely unnecessarily and you just can’t resist making an irrelevant comment to point score on this forum. 

Yes I appreciate I’ve now just done the same but I would not have responded otherwise. 

RIP to all those innocent people who died needlessly. 
 

Here’s the thing…

I first mentioned this terrible situation that the Palestinians are in on another thread because it IS so appalling - and should be brought to people’s attention.  The UK media don’t do that - and even in the quoted Guardian article, they include all manner of excuses to justify the Zionist carnage. 
 

 The Albanian and other posters ignored the persecution problem totally and offered distracting comments.  
“Not in here - should be in other places!!!”

 

So I put it where they suggested - and now it’s me being offensive!?  It’s me “posting irrelevant comments!”  And other shithouse whataboutery.  More attempts to not talk about the subject, to close down all publicity for the Palestinian cause.

Derisory and insincere RIP crap is of no use whatever.

Would make more moral sense if they did comment on it.  But I guess I’d be asking too much.

 

[WeeBud]

14 minutes ago, antrin said:

Here’s the thing…

I first mentioned this terrible situation that the Palestinians are in on another thread because it IS so appalling - and should be brought to people’s attention.  The UK media don’t do that - and even in the quoted Guardian article, they include all manner of excuses to justify the Zionist carnage. 
 

 The Albanian and other posters ignored the persecution problem totally and offered distracting comments.  
“Not in here - should be in other places!!!”

 

So I put it where they suggested - and now it’s me being offensive!?  It’s me “posting irrelevant comments!”  And other shithouse whataboutery.  More attempts to not talk about the subject, to close down all publicity for the Palestinian cause.

Derisory and insincere RIP crap is of no use whatever.

Would make more moral sense if they did comment on it.  But I guess I’d be asking too much.

 

Oh the poor wee victim ……. For what it’s worth I share your beliefs.

[antrin]

6 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

Oh the poor wee victim ……. For what it’s worth I share your beliefs.

Thank you, but I need no-one’s concern - direct yours toward the real victims.

 

[antrin]

No posts on this topic since July.  I guess politics have gone on holiday in their fabulous motorhome…

 

Anyway… the link is to an article about an upcoming series addressing the general lack of knowledge among its own members about the four distinct nations of the UK.

David Olusaga is a perceptive, cracking presenter of his own analyses.  The series will be well worth a watch, I suggest.

(Aye.  I might have posted this in the tv thread but it would have drowned in the Mrs Brown shire posts.  Also, the link is to an article discussing the politics which might make the series of great interest.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/uk-schools-should-teach-all-four-nations-histories-says-david-olusoga

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

10 hours ago, antrin said:

No posts on this topic since July.  I guess politics have gone on holiday in their fabulous motorhome…

 

Anyway… the link is to an article about an upcoming series addressing the general lack of knowledge among its own members about the four distinct nations of the UK.

David Olusaga is a perceptive, cracking presenter of his own analyses.  The series will be well worth a watch, I suggest.

(Aye.  I might have posted this in the tv thread but it would have drowned in the Mrs Brown shire posts.  Also, the link is to an article discussing the politics which might make the series of great interest.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/uk-schools-should-teach-all-four-nations-histories-says-david-olusoga

 

David Olusaga perceptive!!  He used skull shape (yes the same pseudo science the Nazi party used) to try and pretend that Cheddar man was from sub-Saharan Africa. Ch4 ran with his story for a year until DNA evidence proved he was had eastern Mediterranean heritage. Perceptive no, divisive yes.