St.Ricky Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, StuD said: Yep Ricky, I think that's fair. I'm not sure why anyone would think that was even remotely controversial. The club clearly has areas it needs to improve on, it's far from the perfect football club, and for a fan to act like everything is perfect just seems odd to me. Five steps? I think I could offer loads but to keep it reasonably concise I'll just do 3 just now. 1. I'd like to see the club being more inclusive. It's small minded for it not to be. Let's face it the club can only ever accommodate 8.023 customers through the turnstyles on 18 league match days this season (19 next season). But there is no upward limit on the number of members or affiliates that the club could have. Womans football is an area of rapid growth within the sport. As I said on the other thread an adult womans team was very ambitious, but setting up a girls footballing academy and enrolling girls teams in every age group would be a huge step forward. There is no reason why a girls academy should have a negative impact on club finances. Juvenile clubs can make girls football self sufficient and there's no reason why a senior football club with it's own facilities couldn't replicate the model. 2. I'd like to see more community involvement. A number of clubs in Scotland that are far smaller than St Mirren are already good at this. Edinburgh Spartans is a particularly good example. Take a look at their oral health programme - Spartan Smilers - that they deliver around local schools to Primary 3 children. The programme they deliver has proven to be extremely successful with tests showing that the information retention is around 60% higher than previous dental health programmes. Dribbling through cones to teach kids how to floss between their teeth. Rolling the ball up and down a plastic tooth, teaches the kids how they need to brush their teeth. The benefit to the club? Well first off they get paid to deliver the courses. Secondly they improve the clubs visibility in the town. And thirdly it enhances it's reputation as a proper community club. If Spartans can do it and can make it work, alongside homework clubs, alternative schools and with mentoring primary school pupils - then why couldn't a senior professional football club with a far greater annual turnover not make it work also? 3. I'd like to see St Mirren build bridges to clubs like Glenvale and to work with them for mutual benefit rather than stare them down as competition and opposition. After all St Mirren and the local juvenile football clubs in Paisley and Renfrewshire have far more in common than they do in competition. Sharing resources would be the obvious place to start. For example look at the community coaching sessions the club does during the school holidays. Kids pay money and play football for a week and then they just go away again. Wouldn't it be better for all concerned if St Mirren were able to give out contact details so that any child who particularly enjoyed playing football for the week, can join a local club and participate in the sport at a level they can play at? Wouldn't it benefit St Mirren financially if they clubbed together with local juvenile clubs in a buying group that would buy all their kit from the one supplier? Wouldn't it benefit St Mirren if they helped those clubs fund raise - using facilities at St Mirren Park? I know it happens already but it's something that the club could be more proactive with. For example a sportsmans dinner would bring in money through bar receipts - whilst allowing the juvenile club the opportunity to fund raise. I'd also suggest looking at a business that Bobby Jenks set up in North Lanarkshire where he set up at Ravenscraig and juvenile football clubs would pay to use his coaches and equipment to then run sponsored fund raising classes. Thanks StuD These seem sound to me. Would be good to get other people's take on this too (no abuse needed, just alternative arguments) On the topic of Collaboratipn. I believe this to be a structural weakness in how organisations interact with customers. Shareholders and Communitiese not just in the club or Scotland. This has now been identified as a barrier to growth and seen as leading to innefective use of funds whether government, community , private or a mix. There is currently a government committee looking at how Collaboration works. I believe it is to report later this year. The other point worth taking on board for discussion are the resources available within the club on the business side to support these and other initiatives. I have a feeling that the BOD recognise this and hope they will make the investment needed to support Tony et Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, smcc said: Don't you realise that Stu D is a paragon of excellence? That wasn't the word beginning with "exc" that I was thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, St.Ricky said: Thanks StuD These seem sound to me. Would be good to get other people's take on this too (no abuse needed, just alternative arguments) On the topic of Collaboratipn. I believe this to be a structural weakness in how organisations interact with customers. Shareholders and Communitiese not just in the club or Scotland. This has now been identified as a barrier to growth and seen as leading to innefective use of funds whether government, community , private or a mix. There is currently a government committee looking at how Collaboration works. I believe it is to report later this year. The other point worth taking on board for discussion are the resources available within the club on the business side to support these and other initiatives. I have a feeling that the BOD recognise this and hope they will make the investment needed to support Tony et Al. While I admire StuDs industry & persistence I'm quite happy with my response to the latest of his tirades whose tone & content haven't changed much in 20 years. If you're still treating them seriously in 5 years time you truly will be a Saint. All I want from the BoD is to run the club on a break-even basis and spend as much as possible on the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 19 hours ago, St.Ricky said: Lots of people on lots of threads seem to be bringing up this question. For what it's worth, I think we are in a good place right now. The key question has Tobe... Is the club in a better position than it was 2/3 years ago and the answer surely is yes. I had a job for 20 years that put me in a position where I was requested/paid to advise boards of directors on strategy and behaviour in organisations up to50000 employees and more. I only say this to put my remarks in context. My view is worth no more and I hope no less than any other fan. My take... But I welcome discussion... Is that GLS is shrewd but used to a hands on style of leadership and management. This might be exactly what we needed. People seem (rightly perhaps?) impatient to see a more participatory approach. So rather than criticise.... How would you like to see things done? Gordon Scott and Jack Ross are the 2 best things to happen to St Mirren for years. Enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: Jesus fucking Christ! What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, zico said: What? Captain fucking Sensible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 Today I have realised that the forum pest of pests has returned. A sad day indeed. Anyone back on topic, the chairman and board have done a great job. I truly expect them to continue to do so as I have a lot of confidence in them. Bit of a pointless thread this really because anyone with inteligence above that of the common peanut will be happy with all things Saint Mirren professional football club pte ltd co. Needless to say I did not read Dickson's rantings either but as I say, intelligence above a peanut and all. In fact Gordon Scott has done such a great job, could Smisa perhaps piss off now? Smisa really should leave this man in place as long as possible!!!!!! Yes Smisa piss off, piss off Smisa indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted May 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, TediousTom said: Today I have realised that the forum pest of pests has returned. A sad day indeed. Anyone back on topic, the chairman and board have done a great job. I truly expect them to continue to do so as I have a lot of confidence in them. Bit of a pointless thread this really because anyone with inteligence above that of the common peanut will be happy with all things Saint Mirren professional football club pte ltd co. Needless to say I did not read Dickson's rantings either but as I say, intelligence above a peanut and all. In fact Gordon Scott has done such a great job, could Smisa perhaps piss off now? Smisa really should leave this man in place as long as possible!!!!!! Yes Smisa piss off, piss off Smisa indeed TT. I think it might be worth reading what StuD has had to say. The club is overall in a good place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't further improve. My guess would be that the person most impatient for that improvement would be GLS himself. Reading your post it seems to me that both yourself and StuD have more issues with SMISA than GLS. You might not agree on the approach to those but you each have concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 TT. I think it might be worth reading what StuD has had to say. The club is overall in a good place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't further improve. My guess would be that the person most impatient for that improvement would be GLS himself. Reading your post it seems to me that both yourself and StuD have more issues with SMISA than GLS. You might not agree on the approach to those but you each have concerns. Like many others. ,I find Dickos posts very hard work . It’s always difficult when you get a poster who trots out lies or half truths willy -nilly and refuses to acknowledge them when called out on them or challenged . He may have some valid points and the occasional decent idea but these usually get lost in the fog of his irrational hatred of all things St.Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted May 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said: Like many others. ,I find Dickos posts very hard work . It’s always difficult when you get a poster who trots out lies or half truths willy -nilly and refuses to acknowledge them when called out on them or challenged . He may have some valid points and the occasional decent idea but these usually get lost in the fog of his irrational hatred of all things St.Mirren. I see what you are saying and am not taking sides here. What are your thoughts on the Topic CG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 TT. I think it might be worth reading what StuD has had to say. The club is overall in a good place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't further improve. My guess would be that the person most impatient for that improvement would be GLS himself. Reading your post it seems to me that both yourself and StuD have more issues with SMISA than GLS. You might not agree on the approach to those but you each have concerns. I would cut my wrists 1st rather than read his threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 It's worth remembering that if Dicky was in charge we would have had no Jack Ross and a running track round the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, norman said: It's worth remembering that if Dicky was in charge we would have had no Jack Ross and a running track round the pitch. But we would have a ground thats right in the town centre , like Sunderland ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said: But we would have a ground thats right in the town centre , like Sunderland ! Funded by the magic money tree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, smcc said: Funded by the magic money tree? Was always his assertion that we should have built in the town centre just like Sunderland did. Despite me and others proving beyond doubt that Sunderlands ground was not in the town centre , he continued in denial ..or should i say he simply continued to lie as per normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) See Ricky, this is where fan ownership falls flat - particularly at St Mirren. The majority of St Mirren fans, particularly online, are happy with the odd Indian Summer in an Ice Age. There's no desire to break the endless loop of failure in the top flight. No desire to figure out how clubs like Kilmarnock and St Johnstone came up from way behind St Mirren in the 70's and the 80's to enjoy far more stability and success in the top flight than St Mirren. Why would there be? Can you imagine if St Mirren actually had the finances to field a good team every season? These fans would be f**ked. They'd have to give up the reserved seat they've never sat in in a half empty stadium. They'd have to queue for a pie. Parking would be a nightmare. And they'd have to leave the pub 10 minutes earlier to make sure they get in before kick off. I reckon that's why so many of them loved Stewart Gilmour. He never threatened to do anything except let the cycle continue endlessly whilst letting the club rot from the inside out. It's just a hell of a sad that people to appear to revere Sir Alex Ferguson so much failed to spot his pattern for success. Edited May 10, 2018 by StuD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, StuD said: See Ricky, this is where fan ownership falls flat - particularly at St Mirren. The majority of St Mirren fans, particularly online, are happy with the odd Indian Summer in an Ice Age. There's no desire to break the endless loop of failure in the top flight. No desire to figure out how clubs like Kilmarnock and St Johnstone came up from way behind St Mirren in the 70's and the 80's to enjoy far more stability and success in the top flight than St Mirren. Why would there be? Can you imagine if St Mirren actually had the finances to field a good team every season? These fans would be f**ked. They'd have to give up the reserved seat they've never sat in in a half empty stadium. They'd have to queue for a pie. Parking would be a nightmare. And they'd have to leave the pub 10 minutes earlier to make sure they get in before kick off. I reckon that's why so many of them loved Stewart Gilmour. He never threatened to do anything except let the cycle continue endlessly whilst letting the club rot from the inside out. It's just a hell of a sad that people to appear to revere Sir Alex Ferguson so much failed to spot his pattern for success. Maybe both of these super clubs you refer to simply spent above their means to stay in the top tier . It certainly helps when you have a fairy godfather who writes off £11 million in wells case and another who spunked £13 million to keep Killie afloat then wrote it off also. I do agree they have had more continuity in the top flight but Stability and success ?? Really ?? If you count the facts above as stability , id hate to see your houshold budget and as for success, in the timescale you quote Killie have won 1 Scots Cup & 1 League cup.... Exactly the same as our wee underachievers ! Motherwell have managed 1 scots cup win but they did manage to achive 2 league cup triumphs ( post administration ) ETA , oops , cut off before i could give Saintees spectacular achievemnt of ONE cup win despite having been bankrolled by Browns millions Edited May 10, 2018 by Callum Gilhooley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilberto Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 I haven't read most of the (I assume long winded pontificating) on this thread. However, to answer the initial question I'm more than happy with the way things are being done presently. On another note why did you come back, StuD? Please go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted May 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, StuD said: See Ricky, this is where fan ownership falls flat - particularly at St Mirren. The majority of St Mirren fans, particularly online, are happy with the odd Indian Summer in an Ice Age. There's no desire to break the endless loop of failure in the top flight. No desire to figure out how clubs like Kilmarnock and St Johnstone came up from way behind St Mirren in the 70's and the 80's to enjoy far more stability and success in the top flight than St Mirren. Why would there be? Can you imagine if St Mirren actually had the finances to field a good team every season? These fans would be f**ked. They'd have to give up the reserved seat they've never sat in in a half empty stadium. They'd have to queue for a pie. Parking would be a nightmare. And they'd have to leave the pub 10 minutes earlier to make sure they get in before kick off. I reckon that's why so many of them loved Stewart Gilmour. He never threatened to do anything except let the cycle continue endlessly whilst letting the club rot from the inside out. It's just a hell of a sad that people to appear to revere Sir Alex Ferguson so much failed to spot his pattern for success. Different times SD but agree that the Club/ SMISA relationship and what each should be concentrating on could be clearer and that until it is then there will be a number of otherwise needless arguments. SG led a board which faced similar problems to other clubs at that time... stadium changes and associated costs etc and the board were unable or unwilling to commit their own wealth to the club. Can't fault them if they didn't have it. The new stadium project then took up much of their time and efforts I imagine during which the controlling group saw an opportunity to exit with money in exchange for their shares once the club was debt free. Again. Can't blame them for that. Moving on, the model we are now using allowed GLS to commit funds for a fixed term with the firm promise of repayment whilst no doubt holding security against the clubs assets. Again.. No complaints from me. There was no other game in town. During the period of his ownership I would expect to see increasing emphasis on sweating the assets to build revenue. To do this initially costs money as you need to invest in people and infrastructure before cash starts coming in. This is where I believe the club to be right now. SMISA has its own identity and purpose to forge and needs to remain true to its founding articles for moral, legal and financial reasons. Without finding fault with SMISA, I think they still seem to be searching for a clear plan to enact during this long engagement before they take over the controlling interest. The more public persona of Ann Budge as the voice of Hearts might be a path worth looking at rather than the apparent balancing act between Club/SMISA. This might require a reallingnment of thinking by some.. Nevereasy. A number of suggestions made seem to link back to resolving these core relationships and either/both putting the professional resources in place to make the change needed happen. I long for the days when fans need to buy season tickets... At the right price and with finance available. Where the ground isfull. To get parking you need to get there early and when there you spend money that goes into the clubs coffers. On the social side of things I very much appreciate the support given by all concerned to the food bank collections. More of this type of thing please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, StuD said: See Ricky, this is where fan ownership falls flat - particularly at St Mirren. The majority of St Mirren fans, particularly online, are happy with the odd Indian Summer in an Ice Age. There's no desire to break the endless loop of failure in the top flight. No desire to figure out how clubs like Kilmarnock and St Johnstone came up from way behind St Mirren in the 70's and the 80's to enjoy far more stability and success in the top flight than St Mirren. Why would there be? Can you imagine if St Mirren actually had the finances to field a good team every season? These fans would be f**ked. They'd have to give up the reserved seat they've never sat in in a half empty stadium. They'd have to queue for a pie. Parking would be a nightmare. And they'd have to leave the pub 10 minutes earlier to make sure they get in before kick off. I reckon that's why so many of them loved Stewart Gilmour. He never threatened to do anything except let the cycle continue endlessly whilst letting the club rot from the inside out. It's just a hell of a sad that people to appear to revere Sir Alex Ferguson so much failed to spot his pattern for success. Due to location, location, location St. Jonstone have a lucrative sideline in conferences/hospitality. Kilmarnock built up and walked away from over £10M of debt. ************ There - didn't take much figuring out. Edited May 10, 2018 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said: Maybe both of these super clubs you refer to simply spent above their means to stay in the top tier . It certainly helps when you have a fairy godfather who writes off £11 million in wells case and another who spunked £13 million to keep Killie afloat then wrote it off also. I do agree they have had more continuity in the top flight but Stability and success ?? Really ?? If you count the facts above as stability , id hate to see your houshold budget and as for success, in the timescale you quote Killie have won 1 Scots Cup & 1 League cup.... Exactly the same as our wee underachievers ! Motherwell have managed 1 scots cup win but they did manage to achive 2 league cup triumphs ( post administration ) ETA , oops , cut off before i could give Saintees spectacular achievemnt of ONE cup win despite having been bankrolled by Browns millions Motherwell have won 2 league cups post admin ??????????? Must have missed those (as have the official records !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 St.Ricky debating with StuD is the meeting of minds the rest of the forum has been waiting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Motherwell have won 2 league cups post admin ??????????? Must have missed those (as have the official records !) Oops . My Mistake .Two cup finals -no wins ... makes it a whole lot worse . Useless Bastards get a clean slate yet still cant out do the mighty saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuD Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: J to location, location, location St. Jonstone have a lucrative sideline in conferences/hospitality. Kilmarnock built up and walked away from over £10M of debt. ************ There - didn't take much figuring out. Bingo. Clever boy. Those clubs invested in facilities that brought in non match day revenue. St Mirren have a location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Stu said: St.Ricky debating with StuD is the meeting of minds the rest of the forum has been waiting for. No need for that Stu If you take a different view from mine, feel free to share it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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