Why has the Director of Football failed?

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, thomsons dropped it said:

None of us really knows what has gone on behind the scenes, but so far in the two Windows that Gus has been in place I can 

only say that by the quality of player we have brought in then he has been a success. 

I await evidence of anything to the contrary 😬

I don't think anyone has questioned the standard of who we have brought in.

The lack of anything happening in the early part of the season is the main gripe for some.

 

[BuddieinEK]

I don't think anyone has questioned the standard of who we have brought in.
The lack of anything happening in the early part of the season is the main gripe for some.
 

That on the back of the Chairman's justification that the appointment would provide stability so that a change of manager wouldn't affect our progress.

Had it not been for that ill advised statement, there would be little cause for complaint.

Gus and Fitzy are certainly coming up with the goods... but I still wonder what both jobs entail and where the overlap areas are.

NOT a complaint before the moaner moans that I'm moaning! I respect both gents.

[faraway saint]

Just now, Slartibartfast said:

12 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I don't think anyone has questioned the standard of who we have brought in.
The lack of anything happening in the early part of the season is the main gripe for some.
 

How does anyone know that nothing was happening? Gus could have been scouting out players and just waiting for the new manager's approval when they were appointed. Just because nobody was signed, it doesn't mean that nothing was happening.

We signed next to nobody, that's what we know.

Could have been, aye, just as easily COULDN'T have been. 

Already discussed to death, charge in. 

 

[gstretchuk]

32 minutes ago, thomsons dropped it said:

None of us really knows what has gone on behind the scenes, but so far in the two Windows that Gus has been in place I can 

only say that by the quality of player we have brought in then he has been a success. 

I await evidence of anything to the contrary 😬

Bit early in season to say success!

[St.Ricky]

On 7/21/2019 at 10:48 AM, Kemp said:

This window at least, having a "Director of Football to ensure stability even if there is a management change" has been a complete failure. This isn't up for debate, the reason for bringing the role in couldn't have been clearer & having lost to a Championship team, failed to beat a non league team and be about to start the season almost without any full backs or wingers it is fairly obvious something has gone wrong.

And before anyone says "wait until the last day of the window"; the season has started and we are heading out a cup which is financially very important to us. Even if we do bring in new players now we are looking at week 4 or 5 before they will have properly formed in to a team.

I understand the thinking behind creating the position and fully supported it, and agreed at the time that Gus seemed to be the man for the job.

Why has it failed then? I would be interested to know how much thought and research went in to creating the role. I found the "Moneyball" talk at the time to be rather cringeworthy, and I do hope there was more research than one trip to the cinema for entertainment. Comparing ourselves to clubs like Southampton, which I saw at the time, is pointless as they work on an entirely different level from us.

What clubs the size of St Mirren have such a structure and how does it work for them? Are there any successful models out there of a one man team being able to make much of a difference in recruitment structure? How much should we be expecting from Gus in this role?

Do we have a proper network of scouts that are being coordinated by Gus? If we do, then what exactly have they been doing?

I saw it mentioned Gus was over in Spain in his tracksuit helping at training? Is this true? Surely that is complete madness when the squad is incomplete.

Are we chasing after players that are out of our price range? It seems we have once again been naive to say the least in getting played by the big Dutch strikers agent. We were talking in the press about a guy who never had any intention of getting on the plane. I'm surprised someone as experienced as Gus got taken in.

This isn't intended to be a thread for the usual rabble to slag off Gordon, Tony and Gus. I would be interested to hear some genuine answers to the above. There is clearly something wrong with the management structure of the club for a relatively simple idea (one full time person recruiting players well in advance) to be executed so poorly.

Perhaps posted a little early Kemp given how things have gone but I do recall how it felt at that time. 

[Wendy Saintss]

Perhaps posted a little early Kemp given how things have gone but I do recall how it felt at that time. 

 Give it a couple of defeats and the [mention=2053]kemp[/mention] troll be back with his well worn pitchfork and abusing anyone who doesn’t agree with him

 

 

 

 

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 Give it a couple of defeats and the [mention=2053]kemp[/mention] troll be back with his well worn pitchfork and abusing anyone who doesn’t agree with him

 

 

 

 

Definitely hit the booze a bit too hard this evening WS. 

 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

47 pages and I'm sure more to go. Though if we get all three points today this thread will disappear into the sunset.  

[Kemp]

10 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 Give it a couple of defeats and the [mention=2053]kemp[/mention] troll be back with his well worn pitchfork and abusing anyone who doesn’t agree with him

 

 

 

 

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[Wendy Saintss]

Definitely hit the booze a bit too hard this evening WS. 
 

Maybe you should cut back then Ricky

[Wendy Saintss]

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

 

 

This from the OP

 

Gotta love the irony and lack of self awareness in this guy [emoji23]

[bazil85]

5 hours ago, Kemp said:

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

But has the DOF model failed? 🤫

[St.Ricky]

On 7/21/2019 at 10:48 AM, Kemp said:

This window at least, having a "Director of Football to ensure stability even if there is a management change" has been a complete failure. This isn't up for debate, the reason for bringing the role in couldn't have been clearer & having lost to a Championship team, failed to beat a non league team and be about to start the season almost without any full backs or wingers it is fairly obvious something has gone wrong.

And before anyone says "wait until the last day of the window"; the season has started and we are heading out a cup which is financially very important to us. Even if we do bring in new players now we are looking at week 4 or 5 before they will have properly formed in to a team.

I understand the thinking behind creating the position and fully supported it, and agreed at the time that Gus seemed to be the man for the job.

Why has it failed then? I would be interested to know how much thought and research went in to creating the role. I found the "Moneyball" talk at the time to be rather cringeworthy, and I do hope there was more research than one trip to the cinema for entertainment. Comparing ourselves to clubs like Southampton, which I saw at the time, is pointless as they work on an entirely different level from us.

What clubs the size of St Mirren have such a structure and how does it work for them? Are there any successful models out there of a one man team being able to make much of a difference in recruitment structure? How much should we be expecting from Gus in this role?

Do we have a proper network of scouts that are being coordinated by Gus? If we do, then what exactly have they been doing?

I saw it mentioned Gus was over in Spain in his tracksuit helping at training? Is this true? Surely that is complete madness when the squad is incomplete.

Are we chasing after players that are out of our price range? It seems we have once again been naive to say the least in getting played by the big Dutch strikers agent. We were talking in the press about a guy who never had any intention of getting on the plane. I'm surprised someone as experienced as Gus got taken in.

This isn't intended to be a thread for the usual rabble to slag off Gordon, Tony and Gus. I would be interested to hear some genuine answers to the above. There is clearly something wrong with the management structure of the club for a relatively simple idea (one full time person recruiting players well in advance) to be executed so poorly.

WOW. How time has flown. 

[delpierro]

Cos they're shite.
The End.

[Kemp]

On 8/30/2019 at 11:21 PM, St.Ricky said:

WOW. How time has flown. 

Care to elaborate?

Who is doing Livingston's scouting? They seem to consistently manage to find players that fit in to a system they are good at. Taken them from League 1 to beating the Champions in the Premier League. The only constant with the strikers we sign is they cannae shoot.

Jim Goodwin has been badly let down by Gordon Scott's shambolic handling of Oran Kearney and an inept recruitment system. 

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

10 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Care to elaborate?

Who is doing Livingston's scouting? They seem to consistently manage to find players that fit in to a system they are good at. Taken them from League 1 to beating the Champions in the Premier League. The only constant with the strikers we sign is they cannnonsenseae shoot.

Jim Goodwin has been badly let down by Gordon Scott's shambolic handling of Oran Kearney and an inept recruitment system. 

What a load of nonsense.  When Jim came in there was a list of players . Goodwin made it clear it was who he wanted in on buddie vision. He said a few times it will take time and patience go get the right player my players he said. Goodwin has in my understanding set up talent spotters in Ireland and England. 

[paisleysaint1973]

14 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Care to elaborate?

Who is doing Livingston's scouting? They seem to consistently manage to find players that fit in to a system they are good at. Taken them from League 1 to beating the Champions in the Premier League. The only constant with the strikers we sign is they cannae shoot.

Jim Goodwin has been badly let down by Gordon Scott's shambolic handling of Oran Kearney and an inept recruitment system. 

As you say Livingston have maintained their system through the leagues thus bring players in to suit that. We had Ross and his system that won us the league, Stubbs came in ripped the team apart and brought in inadequate players with what was no real system lasted only a few league games got the bullet. Kearney came in really struggled until the window brought a new set of players in struggled then come March time it clicked we stayed up, Left sacked departed whatever Goody comes in has now brought in a raft of players again and wants to play his way so in 3 seasons we have had at least 4 different systems primarily with loan players or short term signings and a continued turnover of players until now with most signed on 2 year deals which most fans always asked for. I get your point on Livi but we have been a mess in terms of player's and managers these past few years

[Lord Pityme]

As you say Livingston have maintained their system through the leagues thus bring players in to suit that. We had Ross and his system that won us the league, Stubbs came in ripped the team apart and brought in inadequate players with what was no real system lasted only a few league games got the bullet. Kearney came in really struggled until the window brought a new set of players in struggled then come March time it clicked we stayed up, Left sacked departed whatever Goody comes in has now brought in a raft of players again and wants to play his way so in 3 seasons we have had at least 4 different systems primarily with loan players or short term signings and a continued turnover of players until now with most signed on 2 year deals which most fans always asked for. I get your point on Livi but we have been a mess in terms of player's and managers these past few years

And the common denominator is..?

[Wendy Saintss]

As you say Livingston have maintained their system through the leagues thus bring players in to suit that. We had Ross and his system that won us the league, Stubbs came in ripped the team apart and brought in inadequate players with what was no real system lasted only a few league games got the bullet.

 Stubbs didn’t rip the team apart.

 

The only regular choice that you could argue that Stubbs let go was Reilly.

 

Jack Ross’ “system” was Lewis Morgan

 

Livingston’s “system” is playing the long ball game. This is a system which I have advocated we use on numerous occasions.

 

Our problem isn’t the players, nor the recruitment.

 

Our problem is our manager’s inept tactics.

 

 If we swapped all our players for all of Livi’s, it would make no difference to our respective results.

 

Indeed, if anything, I reckon we’d fare even worse with Livi’s players.

 

 

 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

Care to elaborate?

Who is doing Livingston's scouting? They seem to consistently manage to find players that fit in to a system they are good at. Taken them from League 1 to beating the Champions in the Premier League. The only constant with the strikers we sign is they cannae shoot.

Jim Goodwin has been badly let down by Gordon Scott's shambolic handling of Oran Kearney and an inept recruitment system. 

He can't elaborate.

He's in the sin bin.

[paisleysaint1973]

20 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 Stubbs didn’t rip the team apart.

 

The only regular choice that you could argue that Stubbs let go was Reilly.

 

Jack Ross’ “system” was Lewis Morgan

 

Livingston’s “system” is playing the long ball game. This is a system which I have advocated we use on numerous occasions.

 

Our problem isn’t the players, nor the recruitment.

 

Our problem is our manager’s inept tactics.

 

 If we swapped all our players for all of Livi’s, it would make no difference to our respective results.

 

Indeed, if anything, I reckon we’d fare even worse with Livi’s players.

 

 

 

Stubbs also told  cammy smith too find and new club and mcginn didnt fancy gary mak. The players he brought in well say no more Brock Madsen instead of Greg Stewart say no more. Kearney came in ditched pretty much all of them first game against Celtic. Goody has first and foremost sorted out the defence which was to be expected given how he and Lee played the game.

You clearly dont fancy/rate Goody, Stubbs was a bombscare and his signings were nothing short of atrocious as is proven where they are now just my opinion

[Kemp]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

He can't elaborate.

He's in the sin bin.

That's a terrible shame.

Ah well.

[Lord Pityme]

Stubbs also told  cammy smith too find and new club and mcginn didnt fancy gary mak. The players he brought in well say no more Brock Madsen instead of Greg Stewart say no more. Kearney came in ditched pretty much all of them first game against Celtic. Goody has first and foremost sorted out the defence which was to be expected given how he and Lee played the game.
You clearly dont fancy/rate Goody, Stubbs was a bombscare and his signings were nothing short of atrocious as is proven where they are now just my opinion

The reality is that when OK took over he didn't fancy most of the remaining players from Ross's tenure. They just weren't Premiership standard, so they went along with most of Stubbs signings.
The situation we are in now is we look weaker than when OK was bankrolled to add Anton, Hammill and Jackson, not to mention Popescu, Dryer, Musek etc... if we fail to get anything against the fakes imo we will have five points out of the first quarter..! Definite relegation spot.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

The reality is that when OK took over he didn't fancy most of the remaining players from Ross's tenure. They just weren't Premiership standard, so they went along with most of Stubbs signings.
The situation we are in now is we look weaker than when OK was bankrolled to add Anton, Hammill and Jackson, not to mention Popescu, Dryer, Musek etc... if we fail to get anything against the fakes imo we will have five points out of the first quarter..! Definite relegation spot.

Suppose it being a Monday has influenced your post. Shit weather will have added to it no doubt.  

[Dibbles old paperboy]

21 hours ago, paisleysaint1973 said:

As you say Livingston have maintained their system through the leagues thus bring players in to suit that. We had Ross and his system that won us the league, Stubbs came in ripped the team apart and brought in inadequate players with what was no real system lasted only a few league games got the bullet. Kearney came in really struggled until the window brought a new set of players in struggled then come March time it clicked we stayed up, Left sacked departed whatever Goody comes in has now brought in a raft of players again and wants to play his way so in 3 seasons we have had at least 4 different systems primarily with loan players or short term signings and a continued turnover of players until now with most signed on 2 year deals which most fans always asked for. I get your point on Livi but we have been a mess in terms of player's and managers these past few years

Kearney's signings didn't struggle until March. They drew away at Pittodrie and Tynecastle in February, and had Kyle McAllister scored an open goal against Hibs at home we'd have taken something from that game as well (we should also have had a penalty awarded in the same game against Hibs).