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Kemp

Why has the Director of Football failed?

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Any manager coming in would want a say in transfers. The uncertainty over Oran was a disaster in terms of going forward for this season's transfers. Can you imagine any manager wanting the job if we turned round and said "it's ok Gus has taken care of all that" Jim Goodwin had 6 weeks less than he would in normal circumstances, in fact if you listen to his recent interview he likes to start the ball rolling for the following season in January.   As much as i find this whole turn of recent events as annoying as the next supporter i'm afraid it is what it is. If we can manage to stay up i don't think we'd find ourselves in this bad a position again.

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15 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

Any manager coming in would want a say in transfers. The uncertainty over Oran was a disaster in terms of going forward for this season's transfers. Can you imagine any manager wanting the job if we turned round and said "it's ok Gus has taken care of all that" Jim Goodwin had 6 weeks less than he would in normal circumstances, in fact if you listen to his recent interview he likes to start the ball rolling for the following season in January.   As much as i find this whole turn of recent events as annoying as the next supporter i'm afraid it is what it is. If we can manage to stay up i don't think we'd find ourselves in this bad a position again.

This has been repeated a couple of times here, but in modern football at most clubs "a say" is all they get. We absolutely should not be waiting for a new manager or head coach to be appointed before bringing players in. The squad should have been built regardless of whether it was going to be Oran or Jim in charge. Modern coaches are expected to be flexible enough to deal with the squad they have.

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1 minute ago, Kemp said:

This has been repeated a couple of times here, but in modern football at most clubs "a say" is all they get. We absolutely should not be waiting for a new manager or head coach to be appointed before bringing players in. The squad should have been built regardless of whether it was going to be Oran or Jim in charge. Modern coaches are expected to be flexible enough to deal with the squad they have.

I agree that it works in the EPL but this system would cause massive problems, especially for a team with our budget and the market we're operating in if we just went ahead. This system will work IMO quite well but only when we have stability....we didn't have that this year.

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1 minute ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I agree that it works in the EPL but this system would cause massive problems, especially for a team with our budget and the market we're operating in if we just went ahead. This system will work IMO quite well but only when we have stability....we didn't have that this year.

"Massive Problems" seems to be the codename for our current recruitment strategy!

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Just now, Kemp said:

"Massive Problems" seems to be the codename for our current recruitment strategy!

Absolutely... and i'm trying not to worry but as time goes on it's not ideal how long new players will get to bed in, although you're assuming they've at least done pre season training.

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19 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said:
23 minutes ago, Kemp said:

This has been repeated a couple of times here, but in modern football at most clubs "a say" is all they get. We absolutely should not be waiting for a new manager or head coach to be appointed before bringing players in. The squad should have been built regardless of whether it was going to be Oran or Jim in charge. Modern coaches are expected to be flexible enough to deal with the squad they have.

I agree that it works in the EPL but this system would cause massive problems, especially for a team with our budget and the market we're operating in if we just went ahead. This system will work IMO quite well but only when we have stability....we didn't have that this year.

If we are going to have to wait to see who the 'new manager' would like to try to sign the Gus role is irrelevant, the only way it works; is as envisaged by Kemp.  In our position we need a skeleton team of journeymen and then the 'manager' can tweek that to wimprove things, when you build a house foundations are a pre-requisite, it's like our house is built on a bloody beach. 😎

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Just now, jaybee said:

If we are going to have to wait to see who the 'new manager' would like to try to sign the Gus role is irrelevant, the only way it works; is as envisaged by Kemp.  In our position we need a skeleton team of journeymen and then the 'manager' can tweek that to wimprove things, when you build a house foundations are a pre-requisite, it's like our house is built on a bloody beach. 😎

I agree to an extent but it works a hell of a lot better when the we have stability in the managerial department.

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57 minutes ago, Kemp said:

This window at least, having a "Director of Football to ensure stability even if there is a management change" has been a complete failure. This isn't up for debate, the reason for bringing the role in couldn't have been clearer & having lost to a Championship team, failed to beat a non league team and be about to start the season almost without any full backs or wingers it is fairly obvious something has gone wrong.

 

This isn't intended to be a thread for the usual rabble to slag off Gordon, Tony and Gus. I would be interested to hear some genuine answers to the above. There is clearly something wrong with the management structure of the club for a relatively simple idea (one full time person recruiting players well in

If it’s not up for debate why did you post it on a fans forum?

 I can see it isn’t intended to be ‘the usual rabble ‘ slagging of Gordon, Tony and Gus, because you have focused solely on Gus! 

I am pretty sure Gus was employed for more than just player recruitment, his role was to mentor OK as he adjusted to full time football in Scotland. 

I have no reason to believe that he won’t recruit better quality players before the window closes on the 2nd September. He has a good track record of recruitment in both the past and more recently.

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Who's to say we haven't approached players, some players might have been put off due to not having a straight answer to who our manager was going to be. Some of Oran's targets might have held off to see if he was staying or not and then decided to play elsewhere. I would prefer players who are signed by the manager or at least targeted by them. If our DoF signs a player who says that the manager will play them or maybe the player is just a mercenary and will take the contract that the DoF offers them.

 

So far I'm disappointed in how the season has went but we have to go with what we have available and make the best of it.

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19 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

If it’s not up for debate why did you post it on a fans forum?

 I can see it isn’t intended to be ‘the usual rabble ‘ slagging of Gordon, Tony and Gus, because you have focused solely on Gus! 

I am pretty sure Gus was employed for more than just player recruitment, his role was to mentor OK as he adjusted to full time football in Scotland. 

I have no reason to believe that he won’t recruit better quality players before the window closes on the 2nd September. He has a good track record of recruitment in both the past and more recently.

The last two paragraphs sum things up for me. Same applies with Jim. Too early in this window to judge. 

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38 minutes ago, chalky1 said:

Who's to say we haven't approached players, some players might have been put off due to not having a straight answer to who our manager was going to be. Some of Oran's targets might have held off to see if he was staying or not and then decided to play elsewhere. I would prefer players who are signed by the manager or at least targeted by them. If our DoF signs a player who says that the manager will play them or maybe the player is just a mercenary and will take the contract that the DoF offers them.

 

So far I'm disappointed in how the season has went but we have to go with what we have available and make the best of it.

I see the difficulty in signing players of sufficient quality with the manager's position vacant but all incoming managers inherit a rump of players so if the DoF can't bring in players during the gap then as I've said elsewhere the position is redundant. 

Apologies for using the same word thrice in the one sentence.

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Dear oh dear. The manager has been in place for under 3 weeks ffs. He has looked at the squad and will now know what he needs. Let’s see what the next couple of weeks brings before the knives are sharpened

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It would have helped us to actually know what Gus’ full job role involves, because the club has never bothered to explain what he’s actually doing.

Is he just there for the scouting and identifying part? Is he actually involved in negotiating contracts?

I presume we have been approaching players, so it’s probably a matter of either going for players too far out of our price range, or the contract negotiator is doing a horrendous job. Seeing as we don’t actually know how involved Gus is with each stage, it’s hard to know if he’s doing a good job or not.

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2 hours ago, Kemp said:

This window at least, having a "Director of Football to ensure stability even if there is a management change" has been a complete failure. This isn't up for debate, the reason for bringing the role in couldn't have been clearer & having lost to a Championship team, failed to beat a non league team and be about to start the season almost without any full backs or wingers it is fairly obvious something has gone wrong.

And before anyone says "wait until the last day of the window"; the season has started and we are heading out a cup which is financially very important to us. Even if we do bring in new players now we are looking at week 4 or 5 before they will have properly formed in to a team.

I understand the thinking behind creating the position and fully supported it, and agreed at the time that Gus seemed to be the man for the job.

Why has it failed then? I would be interested to know how much thought and research went in to creating the role. I found the "Moneyball" talk at the time to be rather cringeworthy, and I do hope there was more research than one trip to the cinema for entertainment. Comparing ourselves to clubs like Southampton, which I saw at the time, is pointless as they work on an entirely different level from us.

What clubs the size of St Mirren have such a structure and how does it work for them? Are there any successful models out there of a one man team being able to make much of a difference in recruitment structure? How much should we be expecting from Gus in this role?

Do we have a proper network of scouts that are being coordinated by Gus? If we do, then what exactly have they been doing?

I saw it mentioned Gus was over in Spain in his tracksuit helping at training? Is this true? Surely that is complete madness when the squad is incomplete.

Are we chasing after players that are out of our price range? It seems we have once again been naive to say the least in getting played by the big Dutch strikers agent. We were talking in the press about a guy who never had any intention of getting on the plane. I'm surprised someone as experienced as Gus got taken in.

This isn't intended to be a thread for the usual rabble to slag off Gordon, Tony and Gus. I would be interested to hear some genuine answers to the above. There is clearly something wrong with the management structure of the club for a relatively simple idea (one full time person recruiting players well in advance) to be executed so poorly.

it would be madness for him to take training in a tracksuit over there!  it was freakin roasting over there that week.

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2 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

Any manager coming in would want a say in transfers. The uncertainty over Oran was a disaster in terms of going forward for this season's transfers. Can you imagine any manager wanting the job if we turned round and said "it's ok Gus has taken care of all that" Jim Goodwin had 6 weeks less than he would in normal circumstances, in fact if you listen to his recent interview he likes to start the ball rolling for the following season in January.   As much as i find this whole turn of recent events as annoying as the next supporter i'm afraid it is what it is. If we can manage to stay up i don't think we'd find ourselves in this bad a position again.

I don't disagree with your opening sentence but that simply means there is NO role for Gus in terms of what the job description was when he got it. It is quite simply, a waste of a salary that could potentially have went on the playing staff. I said at the time I felt it was a "job for the boy" scenario and what has not happened this window simply emphasises this. It's time to end the fiasco and get rid of Gus ASAP. Though I suspect he'll have been given a 25 year contract from his buddy.

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32 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

It would have helped us to actually know what Gus’ full job role involves, because the club has never bothered to explain what he’s actually doing.

Is he just there for the scouting and identifying part? Is he actually involved in negotiating contracts?

I presume we have been approaching players, so it’s probably a matter of either going for players too far out of our price range, or the contract negotiator is doing a horrendous job. Seeing as we don’t actually know how involved Gus is with each stage, it’s hard to know if he’s doing a good job or not.

At the time of GMs appointment the role was described as follows

Quote

Chairman Gordon Scott said the new structure was introduced because "we have learned lessons" in recent months.

"We want to have someone within the football department who will be a constant presence," he told his club website.

"The board have a vision of how they want the club to develop. At present, we have a plan but not the manpower to define and execute it.

**********************

Let's take an imaginary left back - if the club situation was explained to him and he was confident in his abilities why would he fear for his place with the arrival of a new manager who would presumably have to justify getting another first choice LB to the DoF. Once a new manager has been appointed it's a different situation and the manager should have the final say but during an interim between managers the DoF has to have the responsibility and ability to hire players.

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As I understand it. Gus's main role is to keep Gordon Scott aware of all matters relating to playing staff and the management team. He is effectively there to spy on the manager and keep Gordon in the loop. Any other roles are superfluous to this. 

Wee trips to Spain and wearing the tracksuit are part of his remit. Gordon would need accurate reports on how the training was going. The DOF/signing players is just a cover story for Gordon's Hatchet man.

#conspiracytheoriesfrommytravels

 

 

 

Edited by East Lothian Saint
Couldn't spell theories

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I saw it mentioned Gus was over in Spain in his tracksuit helping at training? Is this true? Surely that is complete madness when the squad is incomplete.


Maybe it had something to do with us being without a manager or assistant manager and also being down a coach. Maybe, due to that, he was required on the trip.

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We are trying to get players of a good calibre this year which is difficult to get. I'm sure if we wanted to we could sign about 6 or 7 diddies tomorrow of standard of players we brought in last summer.

When you are looking for quality players on our budget it takes time. We just need to wait and be patient.

This cup competition is a farce coming this early. It makes a total mockery of the tournament which relegates it to basically a pre season tournament.

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I doubt he has ‘failed’ he will have continued looking at options, but discussions would have been ‘paused’ to wait to liase with the new manager to chat about the ‘options/needs/requirements & direction the new management would like to go’

Basic really, isn’t it ?

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4 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

We are trying to get players of a good calibre this year which is difficult to get. I'm sure if we wanted to we could sign about 6 or 7 diddies tomorrow of standard of players we brought in last summer.

When you are looking for quality players on our budget it takes time. We just need to wait and be patient.

This cup competition is a farce coming this early. It makes a total mockery of the tournament which relegates it to basically a pre season tournament.

Aye, because any teams goes out to deliberately sign bad players. FFS.

Don't you think any "quality" players we can afford could already have been snapped up? 

Aye, a pre season tournament that doesn't matter, unless you qualify then it's .............................well, we all know the answer to that. 

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Like last season's signings ?

Aye, because any teams goes out to deliberately sign bad players. FFS.

Don't you think any "quality" players we can afford could already have been snapped up? 

Aye, a pre season tournament that doesn't matter, unless you qualify then it's .............................well, we all know the answer to that. 

 

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