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faraway saint
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2 minutes ago, Slarti said:
9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
It says his e-mail was dated on 13th January last year? 

That just looks like a typo.

When looking at documents that could be fake things like that, for starters, are things that ring alarm bells. 

While I agree with the sentiment, the REAL numbers are people that have died from Covid, I do wonder why an enquiry, as you say below. 

2 minutes ago, Slarti said:

A public enquiry about what?

 

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Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.
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8 minutes ago, Slarti said:
1 hour ago, faraway saint said:
 

Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.

This "28 days" has been a discussion point since way back.

Extreme deaths, such as car crashes and other "accidents" have been used to drastically minimise the numbers but there is no doubt that any set of numbers that are used are way over the deaths FROM Covid.

I remember finding an early study from Italy that reckoned only 12% or 18% od deaths were actually caused by Covid.

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13 minutes ago, Slarti said:
1 hour ago, faraway saint said:
 

Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.

Agreed. It's not a useful metric at all.

Having covid presumably can trigger other things to actual cause a death and accurately attributing that death solely to covid would be nigh on impossible I'd have thought.

Whether we like it or not, the covid death figures are just not going to be accurate one way or another.

I don't see any reason for having a public enquiry.

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It seems logical that if someone dies in an ICU while suffering from Covid then Covid played a large part in the death. As most of the Covid deaths are in older people it is likely that they would have other chronic diseases, hence the reason for the small number of certificates with Covid as the sole cause of death.

In addition if a young person died of kidney or respiratory failure secondary to Covid infection Covid would not appear as the sole cause.

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7 minutes ago, smcc said:

It seems logical that if someone dies in an ICU while suffering from Covid then Covid played a large part in the death. As most of the Covid deaths are in older people it is likely that they would have other chronic diseases, hence the reason for the small number of certificates with Covid as the sole cause of death.

In addition if a young person died of kidney or respiratory failure secondary to Covid infection Covid would not appear as the sole cause.

A massive assumption.

Anyhow, a never ending and subjective point.

Hopefully this tragic year is coming to an end and we can all get back to normal. 

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41 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

A massive assumption.

Anyhow, a never ending and subjective point.

Hopefully this tragic year is coming to an end and we can all get back to normal. 

If someone who tests positive for Covid dies from respiratory failure whilst on a ventilator, then I think we can trust medics in an ICU to identify Covid as the main cause of death.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, FTOF said:

If someone who tests positive for Covid dies from respiratory failure whilst on a ventilator, then I think we can trust medics in an ICU to identify Covid as the main cause of death.

Or maybe they died from respiratory failure? 

Not straightforward, granted, so best not to speculate.

PS Just realised that's what I've done, along with most of us on this thread. :lol:

Edited by faraway saint
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5 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Or maybe they died from respiratory failure? 

Not straightforward, granted, so best not to speculate. 

Don't be so obtuse.

Covid deaths due to respiratory failure follow a familiar pattern of symptoms coupled with indicative internal indicators, which ICU staff are sadly all too familiar with. 

If a patient dies from respiratory failure who has tested positive for Covid and displayed these characteristic symptoms, which are specific to Covid, then it's not any other disease that causes their respiratory failure. 

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16 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Don't be so obtuse.

Covid deaths due to respiratory failure follow a familiar pattern of symptoms coupled with indicative internal indicators, which ICU staff are sadly all too familiar with. 

If a patient dies from respiratory failure who has tested positive for Covid and displayed these characteristic symptoms, which are specific to Covid, then it's not any other disease that causes their respiratory failure. 

Ok doctor, again. 

You teachers can certainly multitask. 😂

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So, tonight Johnson is to outline the plans to get us back to something resembling a normal/decent lifestyle.

A lot riding on this, I can't see any more leeway for business's that are already teetering on the brink, with the furlough system due to come to an end soon that safety net will be gone.

Israel, who have vaccinated half the population, have already resumed something close to a normal life, the UK are currently around 33% on the vaccination numbers, maybe we'll be aiming for something the same?  

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2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

So, tonight Johnson is to outline the plans to get us back to something resembling a normal/decent lifestyle.

A lot riding on this, I can't see any more leeway for business's that are already teetering on the brink, with the furlough system due to come to an end soon that safety net will be gone.

Israel, who have vaccinated half the population, have already resumed something close to a normal life, the UK are currently around 33% on the vaccination numbers, maybe we'll be aiming for something the same?  

No he isn't.

ETA:

I offer an apology if you've moved to England. I am assuming you live in Scotland.

Edited by stlucifer
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If you want to talk dictator you need look no further than the guy who ignored the law when procuring PPE through his mates. While I don't agree with everything her government has done, Sturgeon has more common sense  than the whole of the UK cabinet put together. I wouldn't trust BoJo and his cronies to tie a shoelace between them.

ETA:

The UK government has acted, both collectively and individually, to fill the coffers of their donors and friends to the detriment of the country. at least Sturgeon is trying to do the right thing for the people she and her party represent.

Edited by stlucifer
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