animal Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/charities-regulator-assess-paisleys-kibble-30893311 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, animal said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/charities-regulator-assess-paisleys-kibble-30893311 The bastards.😲 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 49 minutes ago, FTOF said: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Watch out @beyond our ken will be after you screaming about bullying. 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 I wonder who the grass is. [emoji1787] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmahomack saint Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 4 hours ago, animal said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/charities-regulator-assess-paisleys-kibble-30893311 Has Bazil seen this They'll be hell to pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted September 8, 2023 Report Share Posted September 8, 2023 5 hours ago, animal said: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/charities-regulator-assess-paisleys-kibble-30893311 smoke................................fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 might be a case of someone alerting the regulator or maybe just a regulator actually doing it's job. All in it's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 9, 2023 Report Share Posted September 9, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 9:24 PM, portmahomack saint said: Has Bazil seen this They'll be hell to pay... Story just needs put to bed. It was always a mountain out of a mole hill, but it’s now tedious even by this forums standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 9:24 PM, portmahomack saint said: Has Bazil seen this They'll be hell to pay... 7 hours ago, bazil85 said: Story just needs put to bed. It was always a mountain out of a mole hill, but it’s now tedious even by this forums standards. I dunno, baz… I know you’re the expert on this, but the legal system and its results can be better than tedious. (no need to reply). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 One way or t'other this will bring this farce to an end. My guess is that Kibble will get their knuckles rapped for not following etiquette , but the fact that the club BOD have the final say on any use of club land will mean this wellness centre couldn't have gone ahead anyway , without the say so of Smisa and the club. No matter what , Kibble own a fair chunk of the shares and they aren't going away . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 2 hours ago, billyg said: One way or t'other this will bring this farce to an end. My guess is that Kibble will get their knuckles rapped for not following etiquette , And nobody will really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted September 10, 2023 Report Share Posted September 10, 2023 12 hours ago, billyg said: One way or t'other this will bring this farce to an end. My guess is that Kibble will get their knuckles rapped for not following etiquette , but the fact that the club BOD have the final say on any use of club land will mean this wellness centre couldn't have gone ahead anyway , without the say so of Smisa and the club. No matter what , Kibble own a fair chunk of the shares and they aren't going away . It makes you think that maybe a lifelong Saints fan who made the step up to the club's board AKA ( Mr. Alan Wardrop,) had a point, given that what he implied was more or less what has transpired, and then again, one has to wonder, should Mr Wardrop not be proven to be uttering falsehoods if a certain other board member/chairman AKA (Mr John Needham) be so gracious as to offer an apology...............................DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockmd Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 No matter what, Kibble's priority is, first and foremost, for themselves. They have invested in our club and seek a return on that investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 52 minutes ago, Jockmd said: No matter what, Kibble's priority is, first and foremost, for themselves. They have invested in our club and seek a return on that investment. Kibble’s prime reason for existence should (first and foremost) be providing for the young people in need of Kibble’s services - not for its employees… …but I take your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Jockmd said: No matter what, Kibble's priority is, first and foremost, for themselves. They have invested in our club and seek a return on that investment. I agree but what sort of return might that be, shares don't pay a dividend as far as I know, so if a return is required will it be more for their shares than they paid for them, in which case they are taking a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 9/10/2023 at 6:58 AM, antrin said: I dunno, baz… I know you’re the expert on this, but the legal system and its results can be better than tedious. (no need to reply). I imagine we’ll see the same as we have all along, completely blown out of proportion. Still, it gives the St Moan crowd something to cling onto while we are doing so well on the pitch Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 hour ago, StanleySaint said: I agree but what sort of return might that be, shares don't pay a dividend as far as I know, so if a return is required will it be more for their shares than they paid for them, in which case they are taking a risk. The return they seek is the mutual benefit that comes along with being major shareholders in a prosperous St Mirren. This has been very clearly laid out for all. Joint projects & the running of the club allow for opportunities for people in their care. Ultimately a strong St Mirren is good for the Kibble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 Joint projects & the running of the club allow for opportunities for people in their care. Ultimately a strong St Mirren is good for the Kibble. Yes I read the blurb too, but I'm 100% certain that a financial return is an end goal, there is nothing in the above that couldn't have been achieved in a partnership that didn't require partial ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, StanleySaint said: Joint projects & the running of the club allow for opportunities for people in their care. Ultimately a strong St Mirren is good for the Kibble. Yes I read the blurb too, but I'm 100% certain that a financial return is an end goal, there is nothing in the above that couldn't have been achieved in a partnership that didn't require partial ownership. There is no parameter within the agreement for them to get a financial return. Even a buyout doesn’t appear to have the possibility for them to demand inflated prices. (And they have no intention of leaving) Partial ownership gives them more of a say on direction & the clubs management. By the same argument, why did we even bother with a fan group buy out? We could have just entered a ‘partnership’ with Gilmour & co. The reality is, ownership stakes are better for investors in many cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockmd Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 As much as I sympathise with any charity for the good work they do for those who suffer in a society whereby the political institutions effectively ignore their plight, our club needn't be responsible in a major way to accommodate and promote that charitable process. In all substantial sized charities, there are people on the BoD who are qualified and well-versed on commercial strategies in order to enhance financial health. That is understandable. Having read most of the comments on this issue I really don't see the how the club is benefitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, bazil85 said: There is no parameter within the agreement for them to get a financial return. Even a buyout doesn’t appear to have the possibility for them to demand inflated prices. (And they have no intention of leaving) Partial ownership gives them more of a say on direction & the clubs management. By the same argument, why did we even bother with a fan group buy out? We could have just entered a ‘partnership’ with Gilmour & co. The reality is, ownership stakes are better for investors in many cases. I think you are extrapolating your point beyond reasonableness here, we all know the old board wanted to sell and fan buyout was important to both sides, what is strange is the lack of an extraction route for either side in the Kibble arrangement, as it stands however well or badly it goes both sides are stuck with each other, and no I don't buy 'that shows commitment to the concept' bollocks, it shows a lack of common sense on the club's part. If we wished to part with Kibble it would be at a price they wanted so it doesn't matter that it isn't written in, it is a consequence of a badly drawn agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenziebud Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 12 hours ago, jaybee said: It makes you think that maybe a lifelong Saints fan who made the step up to the club's board AKA ( Mr. Alan Wardrop,) had a point, given that what he implied was more or less what has transpired, and then again, one has to wonder, should Mr Wardrop not be proven to be uttering falsehoods if a certain other board member/chairman AKA (Mr John Needham) be so gracious as to offer an apology...............................DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH. I haven't spoken to Alan in close to 20 years but i knew him and his father really well as they were involved with Gleniffer Thistle. My brother played with Alan in that team and I lived opposite to him for a while. His father and Billy Hassan who both ran the team were first class guys who were straight up with huge integrity. I always found Alan to be similar. Always a positive decent guy. Given what has emerged on this issue and the discrepancies and investigations now into Kibble conduct I know which side of this i would be on. As you say I wouldn't hold my breath on any kind of apology from Kibble, just lawsuits to stop the truth being communicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, StanleySaint said: I think you are extrapolating your point beyond reasonableness here, we all know the old board wanted to sell and fan buyout was important to both sides, what is strange is the lack of an extraction route for either side in the Kibble arrangement, as it stands however well or badly it goes both sides are stuck with each other, and no I don't buy 'that shows commitment to the concept' bollocks, it shows a lack of common sense on the club's part. If we wished to part with Kibble it would be at a price they wanted so it doesn't matter that it isn't written in, it is a consequence of a badly drawn agreement. Ultimately, this land disagreement is the last stand of the ‘kibble bad’ brigade. The arrangement is proving a successful one, on and off the park. The initial teething problems have all but evaporated. It was unrealistic for people to think there should be absolutely none IMO anyway, but that’s now in the past. Even the financial hangover from Covid is likely to have went far faster than expected based on good crowds, cup runs, player sales & on park success. Talking about extraction plans is your choice, but it was never a short term ownership model. The Kibble would have been looking to protect themselves & their investment as well, so clauses that take away that protection were never going to be likely. I’d say, worrying about how we get out from a winning ownership model, doesn’t make a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted September 11, 2023 Report Share Posted September 11, 2023 20/20 hindsight, the club should have protected itself if and I stress If it had all gone horribly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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