div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 All the information will be sent out within the next 7 to 10 days in the form of an information booklet. Individual members of the CIC will get a range of benefits as part of their membership including access to a members bar area which will be fitted out in the vacant void in the main stand, it's basically exactly the same space as the corporate suite is on the other side. They will also be able to hire that area for use in functions etc.. The document will have more details on this and the other stuff. Don't get caught up on the 300 number. If 3,000 people applied to be members then they would be absolutely delighted. They need a MINIMUM of 300 to join up to signal the interest level is there in order to proceed with confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Are these the 'companies' who have pledged £10,000 ? Why would a hospice pay out £10,000 a year ? Have PACE got £10,000 to pay out ? Why are the companies in involved ""very fluid and fast-moving at the minute"" ? Either they have signed up or they have not. Suspect they might not be very pleased if their logo is being used with out their agreement. There is a third level of membership between individual and corporate called "community". I would imagine that non-profits would fall into that category. All of the logos on the website are those of organisations who have indicated they would sign up to the CIC and every single one of them was contacted to verify the use of their logo on the site prior to it going live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 There is a third level of membership between individual and corporate called "community". I would imagine that non-profits would fall into that category. All of the logos on the website are those of organisations who have indicated they would sign up to the CIC and every single one of them was contacted to verify the use of their logo on the site prior to it going live. OK so who has pledged £10,000 a year ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 http://media.bigfrontdoor.com/albums/album-4/lg/10000hours.flv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 OK so who has pledged £10,000 a year ? I have no idea. They are looking for a minimum of a dozen companies to fill the corporate space so I'm gessing they must have had some interest to have got to this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Registered, not sure I am confident with the whole thing but this being the direction we are heading then a part of it I will be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Seems there is a bit on Sportsound about it tonight, although we'll probably have to wait until after the latest pish about Swiss Toni's attempts to buy r*ngers to hear it. Ignore Stu...the D&G fermers Union have just successfully won an injunction stopping him going within 50m's of their farm animals without wearing a condom.... I still can't believe how daft some of the questions are that are being asked. It was explained eons ago how CIC's are funded and the information is readily available by googling. Are some posters being mischievous or is it just laziness expecting other posters to do all their research for them - Stu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Banjos Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 From listening to the interview on the radio, it does sound positive... To me the key point is that, by becoming a CIC, the club's future should be secure forever. Nobody will ever be able to come in, buy the club, sell off our assets and walk away. To me that's a huge thing. Love the idea of integrating the club into the surrounding community and having the stadium in use every day of the week. Hopefully it should encourage more people through the turnstiles. However, there are a lot of questions still to be answered. RA said funding comes from various organisations who specifically fund CICs. Who are they & will they fund us indefinitely? Similarly, there are the local companies mentioned on the website who are potentially putting in £10K a year. Is their money critical? What happens if half of them decide to pull the plug after a year or if we were to be outside the SPL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 From listening to the interview on the radio, it does sound positive... To me the key point is that, by becoming a CIC, the club's future should be secure forever. Nobody will ever be able to come in, buy the club, sell off our assets and walk away. To me that's a huge thing. Love the idea of integrating the club into the surrounding community and having the stadium in use every day of the week. Hopefully it should encourage more people through the turnstiles. However, there are a lot of questions still to be answered. RA said funding comes from various organisations who specifically fund CICs. Who are they & will they fund us indefinitely? Similarly, there are the local companies mentioned on the website who are potentially putting in £10K a year. Is their money critical? What happens if half of them decide to pull the plug after a year or if we were to be outside the SPL? Good post. The asset lock is a massive part of this. I think the last point you make is particularly valid, would be good to get an answer to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Sorry if these questions have been asked. How much money if any are RA, TF and the others involved putting in? If they are investing is it the same as the rest £10 p/m or £10,000 a year? Will they pick up a wage? Will they buy a season ticket or pay at the gate like the Rest of us or lord it up in the Board room? Will somebody who invests £10 p/m be able to be voted on to the board if they can canvas enough support? Will all the organisations that will be using NSP be paying rent or will this be funded through government schemes, which could change at any time? Hopefully these will be answered in time, but thought I would ask anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Sorry if these questions have been asked. How much money if any are RA, TF and the others involved putting in? If they are investing is it the same as the rest £10 p/m or £10,000 a year? Will they pick up a wage? Will they buy a season ticket or pay at the gate like the Rest of us or lord it up in the Board room? Will somebody who invests £10 p/m be able to be voted on to the board if they can canvas enough support? Will all the organisations that will be using NSP be paying rent or will this be funded through government schemes, which could change at any time? Hopefully these will be answered in time, but thought I would ask anyway. Some valid questions. A document will be sent out to all those who express an interest in the CIC by registering on 10000hours.org. That document will explain the whole process in far greater detail. There will then be a public meeting to address further questions and points, there will also be a shareholders meeting. I daresay there may also be an FAQ put up on the 10000hours website to answer common questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbud Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've read most of the past 34 pages and can't remember seeing if the CIC when offering to buy a majority share in a Ltd. Company will they be obliged to make the same offer to every shareholder. Going by the £2M offer for 98,000 shares each share is worth over £20 so someone like gordan scott would get a few quid back. even SMISA with 1877 shares would get over £35k wich they could then put straight back into the club if they wished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Bundy Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Ok sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but ive just been reading papers and watching interviews etc I am very interested in becoming one of the 300 supporters to help produce revenue for our club but what a wanted to know if anyone can answer that is what is the main benefits for us as individuals? I know we will get to vote for Chairmans/Presidents similar to clubs like Barcelona but what else will we be getting for our money? Thanks As far as I know one of the main benefits of becoming a 'socio' (member) at a Spanish club is reduced price season tickets as opposed to non-socios and also cheaper admission to individual matches than non-socios. A few years ago I was in Seville for a few days while Real Betis were playing Chelsea in the Champions League and Sevilla were playing some mob or other in the Europa League. Both clubs had significant reductions in ticket prices for their members. Whether reduced prices will be a benefit on offer remains to be seen. If it was then that's another potential 'point scorer' in the never-ending "I'm a better fan than you" arguments on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maboza Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've read and read and read.... looking for answers and still not quite getting this. Individuals contributions = 300 x £120 pa = £36,000 pa Corporate contributions = 12 (?) x £10,000 pa = £120,000 pa Total = £156,000 pa going into the CIC right? So that's money going into the CIC, not the club - the CIC which has no other major contributions from the people leading it. This money is funding the purchase of the club and nothing else? So the CIC has a huge shortfall to the tune of £1,844,000 which has to be made up of either grants or loans (debt for the CIC (but the asset being the stadium is protected)). At the numbers stated above it'd take over 13 years to re-pay that money through the contributions into the CIC. What exactly are the Corporate contributors getting for the £10k? If the Corporate contributors are receiving the access to the facilities of the club (i.e. function suite, meals, etc.) in exchange for that fee then that is SMFC facilities (which are chargeable) being used with the proceeds going back to the CIC (to pay for their purchase of the club). No benefit to the club? We're losing out on potential revenue surely? Or does the £10k get a discount for the use of such facilities? (In which case there's still a cut going to the CIC?) If the £10k provides nothing other than a named associaton with the CIC then I'd be surprised if that value of association with that brand could be valued at £10k. I have a concern that all of the perceived benefits and increased revenues from marketing the club in this way will have no real positive financial impact for St.Mirren FC who I expect will be run in the exact same way as we are just now. All these things that are being talked about are things that the club should be doing already - but doing them now under this proposed plan will surely only be paying off the CIC rather than the club maximising there revenue potential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've registered an interest on the website in order to receive more information on the CIC, but I can't say I'm particularly positive about it. Having watched the interviews with Richard Atkinson, who I thought spoke very well incidently, and Tony Fitzpatrick I am even more sceptical. In particular I have 2 major concerns. Firstly, the talk was all about the benefits to the community... very little mention of how it would improve what we see on the park. I'm interested in St Mirren, like the majority of supporters I'd imagine, because I like going to see my team play football on a Saturday, I'm not particularly interested in how St Mirren help individuals in the community. Forgive me, but there's other organisations who can in Tony Fitzpatrick's words "develop" people. Clearly St Mirren already do some work in the community as part of their company responsibilities, but there is absolutely no doubt that the team is the number 1 priority. Whose to say that with the club being financed by community organisations and local businesses, that the "community" aspect would become more of a priority than it is now and hence less funding for the actual football side? Secondly, this is a new venture and there is a chance there'll be enough interest initially in order to make it a CIC. However, what happens in year 2 when the novelty factor wears off and the expectations from companies who've invested aren't met? What happens to the funding shortfall? Clearly this is a negative hypothesis but it's one that could happen and is one of the questions I'd be putting at one of the public meetings if I can attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossTheBoss Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've registered. I think this a great move, I'm excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Firstly, the talk was all about the benefits to the community... very little mention of how it would improve what we see on the park. I'm interested in St Mirren, like the majority of supporters I'd imagine, because I like going to see my team play football on a Saturday, I'm not particularly interested in how St Mirren help individuals in the community. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well put it this way. The CIC needs to raise a significant amount of money in order to repay the grants/unsecured loans it will draw down in order to allow it to buy the majority shareholding. Once it has repaid that money the CIC will STILL be generating revenue, presumably a lot of which is not there today. More revenue = potentially bigger playing budget ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 From what I remember reading before the CIC will have nothing to do with the football side which will be financed independently as it is now - ticket sales, tv money, etc. I'm assuming that once the loan(s) paid off in full then the money will start to filter into the football side of things,but Maboza is correct in that a lot of these things are stuff that the commercial department should already have been doing to maximise income - I attended a funeral do at St Johnstone's ground a few years back and had a chance to look round and see some of the things they had in place and they more or less have the stadium in use 5 days a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLF Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well put it this way. The CIC needs to raise a significant amount of money in order to repay the grants/unsecured loans it will draw down in order to allow it to buy the majority shareholding. Once it has repaid that money the CIC will STILL be generating revenue, presumably a lot of which is not there today. More revenue = potentially bigger playing budget ? Surely grants by their nature do not need repaid? Where are the loans going to come from - and what happens if the CiC defaults? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Sid Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Surely grants by their nature do not need repaid? Where are the loans going to come from - and what happens if the CiC defaults? Think its been said before, but CIC's get their funding through submitting business plans, which are vigourously vetted as any loans are unsecured. Unsecured loans and the asset lock protection of our assets means zero risk to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 From what I remember reading before the CIC will have nothing to do with the football side which will be financed independently as it is now - ticket sales, tv money, etc. I'm assuming that once the loan(s) paid off in full then the money will start to filter into the football side of things,but Maboza is correct in that a lot of these things are stuff that the commercial department should already have been doing to maximise income - I attended a funeral do at St Johnstone's ground a few years back and had a chance to look round and see some of the things they had in place and they more or less have the stadium in use 5 days a week. I've never been very good at maths, but if they're looking for 12 companies to put in 10K a year and 300 individuals to put in £120 that would mean £156,000 a year. If we're saying it will take £2 million to buy the shareholding, then it'll be take 13 years to pay it off at the present investment levels. That of course doesn't take into account the interest on the debt. Furthermore, what happens if government policies change on CIC's? Again these are questions which can be asked at public meetings, but it is a concern that we're basing a business model for the club on factors that the club has no control over. If the financing of the footballing side is kept independently, which wasn't my understanding of it, then the budgets would have to be on the extra cautious side presumably... as we couldn't post even a small annual debt. I'm speculating more now and I'm sure these questions will be answered at the public meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLF Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Think its been said before, but CIC's get their funding through submitting business plans, which are vigourously vetted as any loans are unsecured. Unsecured loans and the asset lock protection of our assets means zero risk to the club. I read about the asset lock and understand that - the concern is more, if the CiC defaults - where do the bank (or whoever has loaned the £2m) come to get their money, would it be possible (if the CiC is in a position of default) that the bank could seize its only asset - 52% stake in St Mirren, in the same way a bailiff takes your TV if you cant pay your credit card bill - you didnt secure the loan on the telly - equally these loans wouldn't be secured against the club but whats to stop a similar scenario? This, for me is the only stumbling block - there needs to be absolute assurance that if the CiC fails and cannot repay its debts - the club is not impacted in any way. Edited March 31, 2011 by BLF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well put it this way. The CIC needs to raise a significant amount of money in order to repay the grants/unsecured loans it will draw down in order to allow it to buy the majority shareholding. Once it has repaid that money the CIC will STILL be generating revenue, presumably a lot of which is not there today. More revenue = potentially bigger playing budget ? Still no answer to the BIG question as someone else said :- ""Individuals contributions = 300 x £120 pa = £36,000 pa Corporate contributions = 12 (?) x £10,000 pa = £120,000 pa Total = £156,000 pa going into the CIC right? So that's money going into the CIC, not the club - the CIC which has no other major contributions from the people leading it. This money is funding the purchase of the club and nothing else? So the CIC has a huge shortfall to the tune of £1,844,000 which has to be made up of either grants or loans (debt for the CIC (but the asset being the stadium is protected)). At the numbers stated above it'd take over 13 years to re-pay that money through the contributions into the CIC."" And where is the income stream to finance this ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Think its been said before, but CIC's get their funding through submitting business plans, which are vigourously vetted as any loans are unsecured. Unsecured loans and the asset lock protection of our assets means zero risk to the club. Please please tell me Sid where do you get the £2,000,000 in unsecured loans ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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