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Lord Pityme

New Contracts for Davis & Baird... Now!

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Your point seemed to be getting fellow saints fans to turn on their own. My point is we should offer new deals to those better performing players coming out of contract, and those who could be the subject of a bid from elsewhere.... and BAM..! Stephen McGinn (one who i suggested we offer improved terms to) comes out in complete agreement.

if you started going to away games in the 70's on the Junior Supporters bus, does that make you anti St Mirren too..?

 

2 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

You've missed the point, quite spectacularly.

 

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Your point seemed to be getting fellow saints fans to turn on their own. My point is we should offer new deals to those better performing players coming out of contract, and those who could be the subject of a bid from elsewhere.... and BAM..! Stephen McGinn (one who i suggested we offer improved terms to) comes out in complete agreement.
if you started going to away games in the 70's on the Junior Supporters bus, does that make you anti St Mirren too..?


What are you on about? Can you get your head checked out, and in the meantime be happy that our captain fantastic is on the brink of signing a new deal? Thanks.

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Hopefully the money for Morgan puts the club in a position where they can increase wages without being silly and offer reasonable terms for contracts for Gav, McGinn, Davis and Baird. Then if there is any interest at least then we get something in return for the clubs investment. 

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31 minutes ago, Anybuddie said:

Hopefully the money for Morgan puts the club in a position where they can increase wages without being silly and offer reasonable terms for contracts for Gav, McGinn, Davis and Baird. Then if there is any interest at least then we get something in return for the clubs investment. 

I’d imagine a fair chunk of that money will be used to pay off the previous board based on the accelerated payment agreement. I can’t remember what was agreed, but it would be useful if someone could clarify the position,

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I do wish some on here ( saying nothing)  would actually have a little faith that the club, Manager, Chairman, BOD, know exactly what they are doing.

 

All I have heard coming out of Saints since GS came in, is great communication, ambition and a Plan.......................

We have made a huge thing about Lewis, and the fact that priority was that we get to keep him for the push, great business, yes Celtic win, but so do we if Lewis can help us up....

As to next season well....................

This time last year the club had another huge decision to make with no certainty to what league we would be playing in. Totally different but the same.

The club will/ has invested in success......

And the point is not to tie down players and make them all relaxed, its to drive the players to success then reward...............

And with Lewis , they can see, that Saints are in the spotlight. Young Kyle, McGinn, Gavin, and Cammy are all 100% focussed in playing at Celtic Park and Tyncastle....

 

I would not be surprised if we get at least a draw away to Dons.........................

JR has said since day one this season, we have targets

First 9- 21

Second 9 - 17

Third 9  7/9 so far 

So its working- Jack will try to get in a quality player or two, and I am sure all players are on a great big incentive to go up, including better contracts....

 

Just remember. the Scottish Premiership is hardly the promised land

Edited by DougJamie

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28 minutes ago, Yflab said:

I’d imagine a fair chunk of that money will be used to pay off the previous board based on the accelerated payment agreement. I can’t remember what was agreed, but it would be useful if someone could clarify the position,

That won't really make a difference to us being able to offer contracts based on the funds. The accelerated payment agreement just means that SMISA have to replace it with our monthly commitments. Old board doesn't get an extra penny overall so it shouldn't impact our ability to use the funds as needed. I think the wording of it has resulted in people getting a bit hung up on the actual details. 

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Baird was superb on Saturday - I lost count of the amount of timely interventions and tackles he performed successfully. An extended contract is a must.

Davis strolled through the game - a class apart at this level. If we trigger the one year extension and also get promoted, I could see him being a target for a bigger fish next January.

Both of them have been superb and work as a partnership. Its hard on Gary Mackenzie who was a legend for us last season - but I'm sure he'll take his chance when it comes back round.

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52 minutes ago, southsidebud said:

Baird was superb on Saturday - I lost count of the amount of timely interventions and tackles he performed successfully. An extended contract is a must.

Davis strolled through the game - a class apart at this level. If we trigger the one year extension and also get promoted, I could see him being a target for a bigger fish next January.

Both of them have been superb and work as a partnership. Its hard on Gary Mackenzie who was a legend for us last season - but I'm sure he'll take his chance when it comes back round.

I think the one year extensions are triggered mutually, in other words it would be illegal to say you are working for us for one year, and then two if we feel like it at the time.

and thats the concern, anyone could, if i have it right re his contract, approach him now with a PCA. There will be several intrested in a player we rehabilitated for months.

edit: cant find info relating to a one year extension trigger option for Davis on official site. Just confirmation he signed a one year deal. All the centre backs, & McGinn etc are out of contract in the summer.

Edited by Lord Pityme

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34 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I think the one year extensions are triggered mutually, in other words it would be illegal to say you are working for us for one year, and then two if we feel like it at the time.

and thats the concern, anyone could, if i have it right re his contract, approach him now with a PCA. There will be several intrested in a player we rehabilitated for months.

edit: cant find info relating to a one year extension trigger option for Davis on official site. Just confirmation he signed a one year deal. All the centre backs, & McGinn etc are out of contract in the summer.

Am I missing something then?

What is the point of even having the "option to extend" if both parties have to agree? Isn't that basically just a one year contract full stop?

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

I think the one year extensions are triggered mutually, in other words it would be illegal to say you are working for us for one year, and then two if we feel like it at the time.

and thats the concern, anyone could, if i have it right re his contract, approach him now with a PCA. There will be several intrested in a player we rehabilitated for months.

edit: cant find info relating to a one year extension trigger option for Davis on official site. Just confirmation he signed a one year deal. All the centre backs, & McGinn etc are out of contract in the summer.

The only reason we have a player of his quality, is because of his injury, otherwise he wouldn't be anywhere near our league.

And to think some doubted the managers decision.

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44 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Am I missing something then?

What is the point of even having the "option to extend" if both parties have to agree? Isn't that basically just a one year contract full stop?

That's  2 of us missing something  then  :huh:  I read his deal was if we want him for an other year, we have him for an other year.

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50 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Am I missing something then?

What is the point of even having the "option to extend" if both parties have to agree? Isn't that basically just a one year contract full stop?

 

3 minutes ago, renfrew said:

That's  2 of us missing something  then  :huh:  I read his deal was if we want him for an other year, we have him for an other year.

On all the official statements, i cant see one that states that there is an extension option regarding Davis. If someone else can quote one from the club that would help.

the second point, just think for a minute... a club offers you a contract for a year, but insist they can make you stay for two if they wish..?

surely that would be a two year contract, unless the player, and club had a mutual extension that both had to agree? You cant just say 'your contract's up, but your here for another year cause we say so." Thats illeagal! It has to be mutual.

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46 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

... a club offers you a contract for a year, but insist they can make you stay for two if they wish..?

surely that would be a two year contract, unless the player, and club had a mutual extension that both had to agree? You cant just say 'your contract's up, but your here for another year cause we say so." Thats illeagal! It has to be mutual.

Or the player agrees that, at the end of the year, he will sign for another year if the club wishes him to stay and it is all written into the contract before he signs on for the initial year.  In a way it is mutual, just that the player has agreed a year before the club does.  Or it could be written so that the player can't talk to another club before talking to the current club first - a sort of first refusal option.

 

I don't know how they are phrased and there is probably nobody on here that does but, having said that, you're scenario won't be it.

 

Of course, there is the possibility that the club could say that they want to take up the extra year option and the player could make it clear that he doesn't really want to do it.  In that case, even though he has legally agreed to it the previous year, the club would probably let him go as there is no point having a player that doesn't want to be there.

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

I think the one year extensions are triggered mutually, in other words it would be illegal to say you are working for us for one year, and then two if we feel like it at the time.

and thats the concern, anyone could, if i have it right re his contract, approach him now with a PCA. There will be several intrested in a player we rehabilitated for months.

edit: cant find info relating to a one year extension trigger option for Davis on official site. Just confirmation he signed a one year deal. All the centre backs, & McGinn etc are out of contract in the summer.

There are different ways a contract extension can be added to a player contract, some examples below: 

1, Number of appearances.

2, Player choice.

3. Club choice.

There's nothing illegal about any of them. If Davis has signed a contract with the third option, he's signed a legal document allowing St Mirren football club to extend his contract length at any time (or within an agreed time period) Examples of the other two are:

Appearance, DVZ few years ago.

Player choice, McGinn last season. 

As for the official website information, Davis 100% signed a one year contract with a year option. The kind of year option was not communicated. 

Hope this helps.

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2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Andy Dorman signed an 18 month contract with us with a one year option, which the club triggered towards the end of the 2008/09 season. Nothing illegal about it.

Mind that time Mo Camara's was auto activated and it seemed like the club had forgotten ?:ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

 

On all the official statements, i cant see one that states that there is an extension option regarding Davis. If someone else can quote one from the club that would help.

the second point, just think for a minute... a club offers you a contract for a year, but insist they can make you stay for two if they wish..?

surely that would be a two year contract, unless the player, and club had a mutual extension that both had to agree? You cant just say 'your contract's up, but your here for another year cause we say so." Thats illeagal! It has to be mutual.

 

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

That'll be it, then.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

Or the player agrees that, at the end of the year, he will sign for another year if the club wishes him to stay and it is all written into the contract before he signs on for the initial year.  In a way it is mutual, just that the player has agreed a year before the club does.  Or it could be written so that the player can't talk to another club before talking to the current club first - a sort of first refusal option.

 

I don't know how they are phrased and there is probably nobody on here that does but, having said that, you're scenario won't be it.

 

Of course, there is the possibility that the club could say that they want to take up the extra year option and the player could make it clear that he doesn't really want to do it.  In that case, even though he has legally agreed to it the previous year, the club would probably let him go as there is no point having a player that doesn't want to be there.

Thanks for clearing up that you dont know either.

like i said, the club havent i far as i can find ever said there is an option of any kind. If there is would love to know that.

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

There are different ways a contract extension can be added to a player contract, some examples below: 

1, Number of appearances.

2, Player choice.

3. Club choice.

There's nothing illegal about any of them. If Davis has signed a contract with the third option, he's signed a legal document allowing St Mirren football club to extend his contract length at any time (or within an agreed time period) Examples of the other two are:

Appearance, DVZ few years ago.

Player choice, McGinn last season. 

As for the official website information, Davis 100% signed a one year contract with a year option. The kind of year option was not communicated. 

Hope this helps.

Agree with the apprarance option, but you are wrong about McGinn who signed an 18 month contract....

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/543-stephen-mcginn-returns-to-the-saints

And again wrong on there being a pure 'Club' option on his contract, Bosman killed that 23 years ago

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1 minute ago, Lord Pityme said:

Agree with the apprarance option, but you are wrong about McGinn who signed an 18 month contract....

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/543-stephen-mcginn-returns-to-the-saints

And again wrong on there being a pure 'Club' option on his contract, Bosman killed that 23 years ago

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/875-mcginn-this-is-the-best-spell-of-my-career 

Looks like we're both wrong, I thought he could choose but it looks like it was survival dependent. McGinn did sign an 18 month contract with a relegation get out clause. Avoiding relegation is another trigger for increasing a contract as is gaining promotion. 

There is 100% a purely club trigger. It's a way in which a club can protect itself. One year contract with an extension option by the club. Why on earth would this be illegal? The player is poor, club get relegated or promoted they have an option to protect themselves by terminating the contract early. Nothing illegal about that, notice how you're the only one saying it? 

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12 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Agree with the apprarance option, but you are wrong about McGinn who signed an 18 month contract....

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/543-stephen-mcginn-returns-to-the-saints

And again wrong on there being a pure 'Club' option on his contract, Bosman killed that 23 years ago

No he didn't. A contract is still a contract. If the player signs it knowingly then it stands.  The Bosman ruling meant players could move to a new club AT THE END OF THEIR CONTRACT without the old club receiving a fee. It doesn't negate any obligation the player agreed to appertaining to his current contract.

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2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

No he didn't. A contract is still a contract. If the player signs it knowingly then it stands.  The Bosman ruling meant players could move to a new club AT THE END OF THEIR CONTRACT without the old club receiving a fee. It doesn't negate any obligation the player agreed to appertaining to his current contract.

Exactly right, if a player signs a contract agreeing to the club being allowed to extend said contract on the same terms for an extra year then that's perfectly legal. 

Player allowed to sign a deal where he can be in full control of extending the contract = legal

Club having the same control = illegal 

:wacko:

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8 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/875-mcginn-this-is-the-best-spell-of-my-career 

Looks like we're both wrong, I thought he could choose but it looks like it was survival dependent. McGinn did sign an 18 month contract with a relegation get out clause. Avoiding relegation is another trigger for increasing a contract as is gaining promotion. 

There is 100% a purely club trigger. It's a way in which a club can protect itself. One year contract with an extension option by the club. Why on earth would this be illegal? The player is poor, club get relegated or promoted they have an option to protect themselves by terminating the contract early. Nothing illegal about that, notice how you're the only one saying it? 

 

5 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

No he didn't. A contract is still a contract. If the player signs it knowingly then it stands.  The Bosman ruling meant players could move to a new club AT THE END OF THEIR CONTRACT without the old club receiving a fee. It doesn't negate any obligation the player agreed to appertaining to his current contract.

Wrong & wrong gents!

the/any club may well insist on a UEO  (Unilateral Extension Option) but it has proven whenever tested in UK courts to be unenforceable as it seeks to both 'Restrict Freedom of Movement ' ( Bosman1995) and Restrict Freedom of Trade (stopping an individual making a living). The main reason it is uneforceable is because it is unfairly weighted in favour of one party i.e. The club.

even though a UEO may state the salary payable throughout the full term of the contract, shit happens, and the player could be worth a much better salary than when he originally signed due to performances, Merchandising sales etc.

ffs even PCA's arent enforceable in UK law. Just because you can include something on a legal document i.e. A contract, don't necessarily make it legal.

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