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BuddieinEK

Value For Money

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

I know I get a hard time for my positive outlook but if some of the negativity

It is not your positive outlook that's the problem :lol

anyways, on this occasion, I agree with you about spreadsheets not cutting it

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

with the committee soon to be in charge of a football club that has the potential to see millions through and out its doors a year, the cost is drop in the ocean I’d say compared to what is invoked with running SMFC. Spreadsheets won’t cut it & if they fully utilise this system, it’ll cut weeks per year in admin time 

If the costs are reasonable and it's worth the outlay, then it's the right thing to do but does it need bought now? We are 4 years minimum away but potentially 7 years away from the buyout. If the answer is yes, then buy it.

 

Edited by Kombibuddie

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8 minutes ago, Kombibuddie said:

It is not your positive outlook that's the problem :lol

anyways, on this occasion, I agree with you about spreadsheets not cutting it

If the costs are reasonable and it's worth the outlay, then it's the right thing to do but does it need bought now? We are 4 years minimum away but potentially 7 years away from the buyout. If the answer is yes, then buy it.

 

I am trying to have a nice balanced argument for a change. :lol:

yeah I guess that is the question, if what they’re saying about the admin hours is true I can’t grudge them spending this money. I’ve worked on projects that have used spreadsheets as workarounds & wanted to throw laptops out window. 

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13 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The club will have several IT systems & I’m sure that’ll be a conversation at the time. 

Us outgrowing excel spreadsheets right now doesn’t mean we need to keep paying for this system in a few years if it’s not needed. Personally I’m surprised they’ve copied on excel for so long, it’s not fit for purpose for keeping fluid personal days & pulling MI. Any tech minded person will confirm this. 

"Us"?

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7 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

"Us"?

Yes we are all SMFC fans, we are all one & in this together. Referencing SMISA who I’m part of and the club who I (and imagine all) also feel part of is okay, it’s allowed. Don’t read into it too much  :lol:

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35 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I am trying to have a nice balanced argument for a change. :lol:

Happy Days. Welcome to the forum :D

 

35 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

yeah I guess that is the question, if what they’re saying about the admin hours is true I can’t grudge them spending this money. I’ve worked on projects that have used spreadsheets as workarounds & wanted to throw laptops out window. 

I've probably got less knowledge than Cockles on this kind of stuff and even less interest in it and will bow to the knowledge of those that do.

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4 minutes ago, Kombibuddie said:

Happy Days. Welcome to the forum :D

 

I've probably got less knowledge than Cockles on this kind of stuff and even less interest in it and will bow to the knowledge of those that do.

Very sensible approach, as shown above, it won’t stop the usual suspects from the auto-neg starting point. :lol:

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3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but not being a smisa member, or recipent of that email I dont see any link to the required vote of approval from the membership for that level of outlay?

The Smisa committee had a £500 threshold for expenditure on running costs they could sanction, and above that membership approval was required. Like i say maybe it was in the email?

There was nothing in the email about the membership having to approve this expenditure. 

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1 hour ago, Yflab said:

There was nothing in the email about the membership having to approve this expenditure. 

And the hare is off and running. Suspect that will be an internal threshold but in terms of good governance, not a bad idea to get approval from members.

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3 hours ago, Yflab said:

There was nothing in the email about the membership having to approve this expenditure. 

Well under smisa's own rules the membership do have to approve that level of expenditure on running costs. Like i said they have a £500 level the committee can authorise up to.

even the three monthly spend is authorised everytime. The big one they f**ked up on was lending the club £15k for the USH which they rushed the money to the club without a vote, and the club sat in it for months before using it. 

They are pretty free and easy with others cash!

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31 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Really don't see the need for this level of expenditure unless there are bigger plans in the pipeline. The monthly cost really seems OTT for our needs.

I suppose if what they’re saying is true regarding the saved admin hours & need to hire someone PT it makes good business sense. 

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1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

I suppose if what they’re saying is true regarding the saved admin hours & need to hire someone PT it makes good business sense. 

There is much cheaper software out there to manage a database of 1200 people.

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Well under smisa's own rules the membership do have to approve that level of expenditure on running costs. Like i said they have a £500 level the committee can authorise up to.
even the three monthly spend is authorised everytime. The big one they f**ked up on was lending the club £15k for the USH which they rushed the money to the club without a vote, and the club sat in it for months before using it. 
They are pretty free and easy with others cash!


Had a quick look and couldn't see the rule regarding the £500 you mentioned. Are you able to provide the evidence for this.

Just out of curiosity, weren't you party to said loan facility?

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24 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:


 

 


Had a quick look and couldn't see the rule regarding the £500 you mentioned. Are you able to provide the evidence for this.

Just out of curiosity, weren't you party to said loan facility?

 

Its in smisa's self governing rules father than the constitution.  You can email smisa and ask what level of expenditure needs membership approval?

And no i wasnt party to said loan facility, although i was on the committee at the time, they just nodded it through between a couple of them.

Edited by Lord Pityme

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9 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Its in smisa's self governing rules father than the constitution.  You can email smisa and ask what level of expenditure needs membership approval?

And no i wasnt party to said loan facility, although i was on the committee at the time, they just nodded it through between a couple of them.

I’ve emailed them asking the question. This is a significant purchase and the ongoing monthly charges are substantial. 

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10 hours ago, Wilbur said:

SMiSA = Frankenstein's monster.

 

Well I stopped being a member 20 months ago, but it hasn't stopped them to continue sending me all the e-mails. I still get the chance 

to vote on the 3 months spend   :lol:   and I also got the 1 this thread is about. 

 

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And no i wasnt party to said loan facility, although i was on the committee at the time, they just nodded it through between a couple of them.


You were so against it you resigned on the spot.....

How long did it take you to resign after the disgusting act of undermining fellow buythebuds supporters?

I know I'd have walked immediately if I felt that betrayed.

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I’ve emailed them asking the question. This is a significant purchase and the ongoing monthly charges are substantial. 
The equivalent of 25 lost memberships! Forever.

The charity I work for has admin done by volunteers so that all donations from supporters go to providing services.

Keeping unnecessary recurring expenditure to a minimum it crucial. Once commited it is very hard to go back, even if hard times should come calling.

As I said initially, the capital outlay I am fine with... But recurring expenditure equivalent to TWENTY FIVE memberships does seem excessive even having read through the perceived "benefits".

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1 hour ago, Kemp said:

There is much cheaper software out there to manage a database of 1200 people.

That isn’t all they’ll be using it for though, says as much in the communication. I shared some prices of competitor software on page one & it’s far from the most expensive. 

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12 hours ago, chalky1 said:

Should this not be explored before purchasing the system, otherwise potential further costs might be placed by the operator

Yes and this is always the problem when you go for a bespoke solution. You are pretty much permanently tied to that supplier and they can then ramp up the monthly fees as much as they like and you have no recourse.

It's one of the benefits of using open source software. I can't believe there isn't an open source piece of kit which can do the basics of what SMISA want. A database, a bit of mass emailing, an attached private forum with voting facilities and where you can add payment facilities. Seems relatively little.

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52 minutes ago, Yflab said:

I’ve emailed them asking the question. This is a significant purchase and the ongoing monthly charges are substantial. 

Is it from the monthly subscriptions though? That’s nowhere in the update. SMISA operates as a committee outside BTB as well as far as I know & we have nothing but LPM’s word (lol) that this is above a cap. 

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12 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

That isn’t all they’ll be using it for though, says as much in the communication. I shared some prices of competitor software on page one & it’s far from the most expensive. 

Why buy an off the shelf package?

Did anyone consider using open source software and hiring a freelancer in for 30 hours to set up the required functionality?

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20 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Why buy an off the shelf package?

Did anyone consider using open source software and hiring a freelancer in for 30 hours to set up the required functionality?

I covered some of the benefits in buying off the shelf packages in page one. 

What people need to consider is there will be far bigger companies & organisations with larger numbers of people using this software. Why don’t they just do it the way you suggest? The reality is these companies exist because there is big marketplace for them. 

Issue/ event management, outage accountability & updates in line with advancements in cyber security are a few of the main reasons why companies choose to go down this path instead of custom made. 

‘Why buy off the shelf’ is a question that would have been considered & answered we have to assume. 

Edit: it’s also somewhat of a myth that this kind of software can be designed quickly with relative ease. We use similar in my work (also used this one on reviews) and it took 1,000s of hours & millions of dollars to develop & make secure & compliant. Maintaining it also costs the company a pretty penny. 

Edited by bazil85

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35 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes and this is always the problem when you go for a bespoke solution. You are pretty much permanently tied to that supplier and they can then ramp up the monthly fees as much as they like and you have no recourse.

It's one of the benefits of using open source software. I can't believe there isn't an open source piece of kit which can do the basics of what SMISA want. A database, a bit of mass emailing, an attached private forum with voting facilities and where you can add payment facilities. Seems relatively little.

Totally agree and that was why I mentioned it, worked in places where new system comes onboard with the promise that it can do this and do that. System gets launched only to discover that the package you paid for only allows you to do certain things

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