bigjerseybuddie Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Why would some guy from Argentina want to buy a club in Scotland when our own association and media belittle our game at every opportunity?Compare that to the English premier league who continually tell us they have the best league in the world. Investors believed them and now they probably do have what they claim because they marketed themselves superbly. I'm more than a bit sceptical of this potential take over, I see that another club they were involved in were relegated so perhaps they're used to it! It's obviously risky whoever takes the reins, it's just that I, like many others, fear for the safety and security of our existence but we are very unlikely to be taken over by another group of diehard St Mirren supporters again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 The selling consortium have been buying up shares, presumably to meet the 75% target. Not sure whether they have got there or not but I can't imagine it would be difficult to deal with the likes of Gordon Scott or Ken McGeoch despite any previous disagreements they might have had. These guys were sitting on a lot of shares that would effectively have been made worthless on the sale of the 52% so getting some return for those would obviously be attractive to them. I thought Gordon had already offloaded his shares. Not sure where I got that from, right enough. Oh for someone to buy the club for a realistic price (£1.2M?) and then allow for a supporters foundation to buy it off him over time at cost. I reckon Thommo, Chris Brookmyre, and the two Dougies (Hensall and the drummer boy) could pitch in a few quid and do us a turn, no? Get SMiSA to set up the repayment system and those of us who committed to a DD with 10000Hours could buy in. Simple.... NOW who has Shareen Nanjiani's number (aherm....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Why would some guy from Argentina want to buy a club in Scotland when our own association and media belittle our game at every opportunity?Compare that to the English premier league who continually tell us they have the best league in the world. Investors believed them and now they probably do have what they claim because they marketed themselves superbly. I'm more than a bit sceptical of this potential take over, I see that another club they were involved in were relegated so perhaps they're used to it! It's obviously risky whoever takes the reins, it's just that I, like many others, fear for the safety and security of our existence but we are very unlikely to be taken over by another group of diehard St Mirren supporters again. I think its all about price , potential media coverage , the fact that we share a border with England ( where the money in football is ) , and the potential to play European football , and showcase the talent to a wider audience ,. I don,t know what kind of club £1.5million will get in England , but St Mirren at that kind of price is excellent value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Hopefully good for us fans , getting the opportunity to watch better players There is absolutely no guarantee that we would be watching better players. At best, we might expect kids who are a long way from home, have no experience of the Scottish game, and no real investment in playing here. For every Isma, there are a dozen Tonets, Mooys, Bahokens etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I don,t know what kind of club £1.5million will get in England , but St Mirren at that kind of price is excellent value. Seriously? So how come the club hasn't been snapped up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I thought Gordon had already offloaded his shares. Not sure where I got that from, right enough. Oh for someone to buy the club for a realistic price (£1.2M?) and then allow for a supporters foundation to buy it off him over time at cost. I reckon Thommo, Chris Brookmyre, and the two Dougies (Hensall and the drummer boy) could pitch in a few quid and do us a turn, no? Get SMiSA to set up the repayment system and those of us who committed to a DD with 10000Hours could buy in. Simple.... NOW who has Shareen Nanjiani's number (aherm....) £1.2m was what was offered, £1.5m was what was requested at the time. that was for 52% however. 75% is now available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Looks like people are keen on a fan ownership model, but nobody appears to be willing to step forward and form a team to put a plan together. I would gladly get involved, but a fear some key or influential people had their fingers burned with 10000hours and won't be keen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Looks like people are keen on a fan ownership model, but nobody appears to be willing to step forward and form a team to put a plan together. I would gladly get involved, but a fear some key or influential people had their fingers burned with 10000hours and won't be keen again. go for it. Might not have worked out for me with 10000hours, but was still a great and worthwhile experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 £1.2m was what was offered, £1.5m was what was requested at the time. that was for 52% however. 75% is now available £1.2M and a Caramac bar for 75% is probably more realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 £1.2M and a Caramac bar for 75% is probably more realistic. mmm..Caramac...a Christmas Treat...next stop petrol station Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 mmm..Caramac...a Christmas Treat...next stop petrol station Ye cannie torch it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 HOW ? Remember. . HE ALWAYS KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. . They bought shares from me and others that I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Re: Argentinians Could it be that Argentinian businessmen are desperate to have assets in a stronger currency than their own? Hence their interest in St Mirren.... Not that this is a bad thing - just a thought about their motives. Even a small loss investing in a football club in Scotland is probably much better than investing in Argentinian assets with a falling currency value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Good for who? Agents of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 First of all, can anyone explain how this model of bringing in promising South American players to sell on would work when you can't actually get a visa for them? You could try it with European players, but Steve Archibald and Claude Anelka tried that at Airdrie and Raith Rovers without much success (or indeed any success for Claude). The below is from an article on the STV website published in 2011. The UK isn't exactly likely to be making it easier for immigrants in the current political climate either. The regulations in place for a footballer applying for a work permit to move to a club in the United Kingdom remain frequently misunderstood and misinterpreted. Various outlets, officials and supporters have quoted varied rules from the past, many of which remain relevant but have moved on from the assumed requirements for a footballer to be given the necessary immigration status. Previously, a club would apply direct to the UK Government for a work permit, with the well-known requirement being that a player had to have played 75 per cent of his nation’s competitive games within the last two years to qualify. Now, the relevant governing body must endorse any work permit application by a club before it is submitted to the UK Government, cutting down on the number of requests made directly to Government which are unlikely to succeed first time. Who needs a work permit? Any player who is over 16 years old and is not from the European Economic Area, which covers 32 countries aside from the UK requires a work permit to play for a British club. A Commonwealth citizen with at least one grandparent who was born in the UK does not need to apply through the points based system. Such players will still require a work permit but go through a different process. How to get a work permit When a club signs a player who requires a work permit, they agree to sponsor the player to be in the UK, meaning they will provide the funds for his time in the country. A certificate of sponsorship is then produced by the club, which is then submitted to the relevant FA for them to consider an endorsement. The Scottish FA’s rules on work permit endorsements follow the same guidelines as previously outlined by the UK Government. For the Scottish FA to give their approval, the player in question must have played 75 per cent of his nation’s competitive games – excluding friendlies – in the two years prior to the date of application. Furthermore, the country the player is coming from must be in the top 70 of the FIFA rankings. Failure to meet these requirements, unless it can be proven a player was unavailable for selection for a period of time, results in an automatic rejection of any application for an Scottish FA endorsement for a work permit certificate of sponsorship. As of June 28, 2011, it costs an applicant £514 to apply by post for a work permit in the UK, or £850 in person to process the application on the same day. There is a reduction in cost for nationals from Croatia, Turkey or FYR Macedonia, with the same applications costing £459 and £765 respectively. The appeals process If an application is rejected, a club can then appeal to the governing body. An appeals panel will ultimately weigh up whether or not the player is, in their view, of the highest calibre and whether they would contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in the country. That appeals panel typically sits within three to five working days of an appeal submission, although urgent hearings can be convened. The panel is made up of three representatives from the relevant football bodies, typically officials from the league, the association and the player’s union. Up to three independent football experts, made up typically of former professionals, also sit on the panel. An applicant club can object to an 'expert' being used on the panel up until 24 hours before the meeting is convened, sending their objections in writing to the relevant FA. If an appeals panel does not find in favour of an applicant, no further application can be made until the subsequent season. Status of immigration The length of time a player can remain in the UK as a player depends on his grasp of the English language. There are two immigration statuses available to a player applying for a work permit: tier two and tier five. Under tier two, a player can remain in the UK for an initial three years, with the possibility for an extension for a further two years. To qualify, the player must accrue 70 immigration points under the UK Government’s system. 50 are given for getting an FA endorsement, with 10 more given for being able to prove sufficient funding to remain in the country. The final 10 are awarded on the basis of the player’s English. If the applicant comes from a predominantly English-speaking country, or has a degree from a course which was taught in English, the 10 points are subsequently awarded. Additionally, a player can sit an approved English language test upon their arrival in the UK to obtain tier two status. Failing that, a player can apply for tier five status. Again, a certificate of sponsorship and proof of sponsorship is required but a visa is only valid for one year. However, the player can then sit an English language test within that year and apply to switch to tier two status. The process simplified A football association will endorse a certificate of sponsorship for a player if he has played 75 per cent of competitive games for a FIFA ranked top 70 nation over the past two years. Failure to meet this requirement will see an application rejected, unless it can be proven a player was unavailable for selection due to injury. A club may then appeal if the first application is rejected. An appeals panel will then convene to establish whether, in their view, the player's transfer would be of benefit to the game in the relevant country. If they are in favour, the football association will then endorse the certificate, which then contributes the biggest part to the UK Government's criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Maybe they are being shown around the give the fans a kick up the arse to get a fan buy out off the ground. It has probably worked to some degree, I would certainly be willing to put money in it. I agree that we would need a credible business figure to lead it & put in a good amount to get the kitty started. Rich Paisley folk / Saints fans? Butler Nutini Thompson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 It would give me great pleasure if Steven Thompson's EBT cash was used to put us on a sound financial footing & in to fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 First of all, can anyone explain how this model of bringing in promising South American players to sell on would work when you can't actually get a visa for them? You could try it with European players, but Steve Archibald and Claude Anelka tried that at Airdrie and Raith Rovers without much success (or indeed any success for Claude). The below is from an article on the STV website published in 2011. The UK isn't exactly likely to be making it easier for immigrants in the current political climate either. A lot of Argentinians are from Spanish and Italian backgrounds and would gain access to playing Europe through their grand parents nationality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 A lot of Argentinians are from Spanish and Italian backgrounds and would gain access to playing Europe through their grand parents nationality They may find it easier to get in to Spain or Italy but not in to Scotland unless they have an EU passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robo Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Looks like people are keen on a fan ownership model, but nobody appears to be willing to step forward and form a team to put a plan together. I would gladly get involved, but a fear some key or influential people had their fingers burned with 10000hours and won't be keen again. May regret saying this, but I'd be up for getting something together. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhill Road Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Maybe they are being shown around the give the fans a kick up the arse to get a fan buy out off the ground. It has probably worked to some degree, I would certainly be willing to put money in it. I agree that we would need a credible business figure to lead it & put in a good amount to get the kitty started. Rich Paisley folk / Saints fans? Butler Nutini Thompson... Div Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Maybe they are being shown around the give the fans a kick up the arse to get a fan buy out off the ground. I believe you could be correct in a way. Not a fan buyout though but they may well be trying to get another interested party to move more quickly than he is at the moment. I've heard a former Saint may front this bid on his behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Maybe they are being shown around the give the fans a kick up the arse to get a fan buy out off the ground. It has probably worked to some degree, I would certainly be willing to put money in it. I agree that we would need a credible business figure to lead it & put in a good amount to get the kitty started. Rich Paisley folk / Saints fans? Butler Nutini Thompson... Two are C*lt*c supporters and claim to come from Glasgow when talking to the media, the other one unfortunately isn't rich but likeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Ex-Ranger Neil Murray involved ....http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/other-football/argentinian-consortium-in-new-talks-over-st-mirren-buyout-192351n.114904558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 I believe you could be correct in a way. Not a fan buyout though but they may well be trying to get another interested party to move more quickly than he is at the moment. I've heard a former Saint may front this bid on his behalf. Did Mirren leave anything in his will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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