shull Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Promises to be an interesting AGM on 26th instant. All things considered. I might go. Free refreshments ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Yflab Posted 14 June 2012 - 19:21 I'm pretty sure this was answered away back in the misty dawn of this whole process. The answer I recall is that the shares were picked up around the time of the last share issue when nobody else came in to buy them. I don't remember the timeline of the share issue and how it relates to SMISA's financial profile or even if they were around then. Kenny, you are being naive if you believe that. I put the same question to GLS last week publicly and his reaction spoke volumes. Below is what scoop1987 which would indicate that additional shares were bought just prior to the move to the new stadium by two of the consortium to give them an overall majority. In the years prior to that SMiSA continually asked the BoD to allow the fans to invest more money in exchange for further shares, but these requested were ignored. scoop1987, on 22 April 2011 - 13:54, said: I am not sure if this is already in the public domain but if I was Ken Mcgoech or Gordon scott I would be well pissed off! The following is a breakdown of where the £2million selling price would have went in 2008 and as of todays date. 2008 Stuart Gilmour 24,259 shares £403,912 George Cambell 21,209 shares £353,129 Alan Marshall 7,670 shares £127,705 Evelyn Purvis 12,842 shares £213,479 Brian McAusland 21,722 shares £361,671 Gordon Scott 15,224 shares £253,479 Ken McGeoch 17,154 shares £285,614 In late 2008 George Cambell bought 4,284 additional shares and Brian McAusland bought 5,701 shares. This allowed them to sell a controlling interest in the club without including Scott and McGeoch thus ignoring the gentlemens agreement between all board members that if they ever sold they would sell as a group. If the sale goes through as proposed the breakdown is as follows. Stuart Gilmour £496,581 George Cambell £521,841 Alan Marshall £157,004 Evelyn Purvis £262,875 Brian McAusland ££561,348 Lets examine the two offers for the club that we are aware of from Gordon Scott and the CIC CIC £2 million to the selling group. £1.2 million of debt to the CIC as confirmed at the meeting last night. Scott is more speculation but I believe his offer was around £800k for the club with a plan to invest £200k So in other words the selling group are £1.2 million pounds better of with going with the CIC option and the club are £1.2 million worse of and back at the same debt level as when the present board took control. You can make your own assumptions from this info but is all factual! scoop1987's posts have been deleted but you can still find them quoted in other posts like the one from Yflab if you do a search. http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/34125-10000hours-online-direct-debits-live/page-7 Wonder who scoop1987 is - he registered on April 22 2011 made a couple of posts, one of them quite inflammatory and then hasn't visited the site using that name since 16:39 that day, obviously someone with a bit of inside knowledge wanting to leave a smelly turd and then disappear. Edited November 7, 2014 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 scoop1987's posts have been deleted but you can still find them quoted in other posts like the one from Yflab if you do a search. http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/34125-10000hours-online-direct-debits-live/page-7 Wonder who scoop1987 is - he registered on April 22 2011 made a couple of posts, one of them quite inflammatory and then hasn't visited the site using that name since 16:39 that day, obviously someone with a bit of inside knowledge wanting to leave a smelly turd and then disappear. IIRC it was suggested that Scoop1987 was a certain female journalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 The loss of these three clubs is huge add in the away support of Ross County , ICT , Hamilton and you are looking at a major drop in income. a50lennyc Making excuses already , or is it another way of saying No I don't know what's going on regarding the sale of the club. Excuses for what? I'm not in control of the sale of shares owned by other shareholders. As I said, the only sale of shares that I am bothered about has already happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Promises to be an interesting AGM on 26th instant. All things considered. Have the accounts etc. already been sent out to shareholders Bud? Need to get the Rolls out the Garage and get down there! Excuses for what? I'm not in control of the sale of shares owned by other shareholders. As I said, the only sale of shares that I am bothered about has already happened. What do you actually mean by that Bud? What Shares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 IIRC it was suggested that Scoop1987 was a certain female journalist. Wasn't her but they certainly knew their way round the boardroom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Excuses for what? I'm not in control of the sale of shares owned by other shareholders. As I said, the only sale of shares that I am bothered about has already happened. Are you an ex-shareholder by any chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wasn't her but they certainly knew their way round the boardroom...Cleaner ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 IIRC it was suggested that Scoop1987 was a certain female journalist. Don't know who he/she was, but thier sums don't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm pretty sure the price paid for the shares in the second share issue was £7 per share. i bought 30 shares at that time in my sons name and I'm pretty sure it cost me £210. based on my experience, that means there will be a loss on any shares bought in the share issues and probably those bought privately. Any inherited or gifted shares will obviously be pure profit. all in all, i reckon the directors stand to make a whacking great loss on their investments in the shares, not to mention all the unpaid time and effort they devoted. the supporters cant complain imo as these shares were available to buy in the 2 share offers and, by and large, the supporters kept their hands in their pockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Slash, is it a real loss or a paper loss? In previous years the losses have been down to the stadium depreciation. I wont get a copy of the accounts now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm pretty sure the price paid for the shares in the second share issue was £7 per share. i bought 30 shares at that time in my sons name and I'm pretty sure it cost me £210. based on my experience, that means there will be a loss on any shares bought in the share issues and probably those bought privately. Any inherited or gifted shares will obviously be pure profit. all in all, i reckon the directors stand to make a whacking great loss on their investments in the shares, not to mention all the unpaid time and effort they devoted. the supporters cant complain imo as these shares were available to buy in the 2 share offers and, by and large, the supporters kept their hands in their pockets Certainly £20 per share in the '96 share issue, I didn't buy any more in the '98 issue but if it was only £7 per share then the Consortium would have made over £15 a share (on these ones) if they'd been able to sell their stake for £2M. Was their a further share issue to cover the RK stand in 2000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Season tickets sales revenue down Gate receipts down Commercial revenues down That'll be the tip of the iceberg if the penny pinching ,cheapskate signings and horrendous managerial appointment lead to relegation this season ! Edited November 7, 2014 by billyg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Billy, I reckon the BoD looked at the league this year and thought.... No Hibs, Hearts or Sevco...we should be OK to promote an assistant and two players to keep costs down and still survive until club is sold. We needed a clean sweep as TC was very influential in DL signings and football philosophy. They assumed we would be OK in a mini league with teams like Hamilton, Thistle, Dundee, Ross county and Killie. After what was a narrow escape last season that was a bit presumptuous.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Certainly £20 per share in the '96 share issue, I didn't buy any more in the '98 issue but if it was only £7 per share then the Consortium would have made over £15 a share (on these ones) if they'd been able to sell their stake for £2M. Was their a further share issue to cover the RK stand in 2000? Apologies. It was the RK stand issue in 2000 that I bought these shares. Lost track of all these share issues in the mists of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Real loss. I'm not going to divulge any details for obvious reasons. I'm pretty sure its okay to divulge the details (someone please correct me if I am wrong!) The Accounts will be publically available information. Anyone can get a copy if they really want online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a50lennyc Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 That'll be the tip of the iceberg if the penny pinching ,cheapskate signings and horrendous managerial appointment lead to relegation this season ! To be fair to the BoD, if they made a real loss last season then they won't have any option but to reduce the budget this season. They have no borrowing facility and they won't be wanting to put any more of their own cash in. I agree however that the managerial appointment was horrendous... They are also suffering from a lack of sales of players from the youth system. The strategy over the past decade of paying a cheapskate wage to a head of youth development who has never played professional football and who surrounds himself with wee boy coaches who have never played professional football has failed badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) I have no detailed knowledge of how many shares each individual director purchased in the second share issue in the '90's (like I said my paperwork from that era is long gone) just that they underwrote the issue and were obliged to buy a substantial number of the shares issued at the time as the promises from fans was not met. If you're referring to money paid to Camscott the company formed by the BoD after the sale of Love Street this is a separate issue - Camscott was formed to take over the debt the club owed to Barr Construction, it was impossible for the club to repay this debt and meet the costs involved in the two planning applications required for the ground move. I no longer have my copies of the Financial Reports for this period but to repeat myself according to these reports no money was made by any of the Directors from the sale of the ground. ***************************** This list was posted a few years ago and is where I base my knowledge of how many shares each member of the consortium (names in bold) owns - remember not all of these shares would have been bought in the share issue of 1998 although like I said IMO the bulk would have been. Here are the top 10 shareholders in St.Mirren Football Club; MR GEORGE CAMPBELL, 25,593 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 STEWART GEORGE GILMOUR, 24,259 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 BRYAN ALLAN MCAUSLAND, 17,923 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 KENNETH DRUMMOND MCGEOCH,17,154 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 GORDON ROBERT LAIDLAW SCOTT, 15,224 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 MRS EVELYN PURVES, 12,842 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 ALLAN MCAUSLAND, 10,000 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 ALLAN WALKER MARSHALL, 7,670 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 W.W. WATERS, 6,933 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 1877 SOCIETY, 3,877 ORDINARY GBP 0.50 Between them the Consortium own just over 88,000 shares (which I guess must be 52% of those issued) not all of which would have been purchased at the 1998 share issue but it wouldn't surprise me if they had to find substantial sums to underwrite that issue although not quite the £400k each you suggest. ******************* PS - Ken McGeoch was a Director in 1998 and presumably would also have been party to underwriting the share at the time. A.M. MACPHERSON 3,000 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 1.57 LESLIE MOIR 800 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.42 G.N. PRATT 550 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.29 GORDON SCOTT 15,224 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 7.99 MICHAEL HIGGINS 400 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.21 1877 SOCIETY 3,877 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 2.04 ALLAN J. WALKER 580 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.30 A.F.C. WALTERS 501 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.26 W.W. WALTERS 6,933 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 3.64 BUTTER ARCHIBALD 350 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.18 DOUGLAS STREET LTD 97,829 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 51.35 MARK FERGUSON 536 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.28 ANDREW HEATHWOOD 1,646 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.86 DEREK HEATHWOOD 1,625 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.85 JOHN MCLEAN LANG 758 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.40 these are the latest shares figures available on company check site.the figure at the end of each listing is percentage of shares owned, i believe the money paid by tesco was partly used to pay the money owed to the directors who had bravely put their future at risk to clearv our debt, i doubt very much that they paid the "bulk" of £2m to buy shares in the late 90's but i dont have the figures just like you dont Edited November 7, 2014 by buddiecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Apologies. It was the RK stand issue in 2000 that I bought these shares. Lost track of all these share issues in the mists of time! Yeah, I know what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 A.M. MACPHERSON 3,000 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 1.57 LESLIE MOIR 800 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.42 G.N. PRATT 550 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.29 GORDON SCOTT 15,224 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 7.99 MICHAEL HIGGINS 400 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.21 1877 SOCIETY 3,877 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 2.04 ALLAN J. WALKER 580 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.30 A.F.C. WALTERS 501 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.26 W.W. WALTERS 6,933 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 3.64 BUTTER ARCHIBALD 350 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.18 DOUGLAS STREET LTD 97,829 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 51.35 MARK FERGUSON 536 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.28 ANDREW HEATHWOOD 1,646 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.86 DEREK HEATHWOOD 1,625 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.85 JOHN MCLEAN LANG 758 (at £0.5) ORDINARY 0.40 these are the latest shares figures available on company check site. Is there really someone called Butter Archibald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Is there really someone called Butter Archibald? Used to play in goals but kept dropping the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I think there used to be 20,000 shares , and to raise money for the old Caledonain Street stand a further 20,000 shares were made available at £20 a share , and this allowed a new group of individuals to increase their share holding , and probably created a few changes in the major shareholders of the club. The next lot of shares became available , when a resolution was passed to make 120,000 shares available to allow an individual the opportunity to own %75 of the club , these shares were made available at £5 each. The present board probably obtained the majority of their shares at £5 a share , and I hope they make a wee profit to acknowledge the hard work they have put in. Also hope that the club club will be sold soon , and we can make a few decent signings during the next transfer window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whydowebother Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Used to play in goals but kept dropping the ball. Really did 'slip through the net' then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Is there really someone called Butter Archibald? Shhh , he doesn't want his name spread about ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy coco Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Is there really someone called Butter Archibald? I think you've got her mixed up with Marge Archibald.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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