Tam M Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Like I said, all abou the risk/reward profile. I don't have any issue at all with those who take the risk making a good profit. You've absoloute hit the nail on the head. The best suggestion I've seen so far. We outsource our Catering, we outsource our strips. The benefits - we can budget accordingly knowing that we have a fixed income of X amount and no risks associated with it. By allowing Kibble to pay a rent (increasing our income from what it is at the moment) they take the risks of the ventue. There would be no need for memberships from supporters. Home and Away fans can use the facility and at the same time we are enhancing the match day experience which can only lead to more attendances. (I'm not saying this sole venture will see a marked improvements in crowds - but it's part of the jigsaw. Football has to become a 'day out' experience where you can be at the ground for 5/6 hours on a Saturday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 You've absoloute hit the nail on the head. The best suggestion I've seen so far. We outsource our Catering, we outsource our strips. The benefits - we can budget accordingly knowing that we have a fixed income of X amount and no risks associated with it. By allowing Kibble to pay a rent (increasing our income from what it is at the moment) they take the risks of the ventue. There would be no need for memberships from supporters. Home and Away fans can use the facility and at the same time we are enhancing the match day experience which can only lead to more attendances. (I'm not saying this sole venture will see a marked improvements in crowds - but it's part of the jigsaw. Football has to become a 'day out' experience where you can be at the ground for 5/6 hours on a Saturday afternoon. Exactly. Outsourcing works because it allows those with experience and expertise to provide a service much more efficientlty than could be done internally (and even allowing for their profit uplift can be done cheaper and with less risk). Outsourcing is especially good for an oragnisation with limited management staff (such as SMFC). There are many painshare/gainshare arangements than can be implemented to reward performance or cap profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood bud Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 When we used to go to Livingston, or Dumbarton - pretty sure as visiting fans we could walk up and enter some sort of bar / club in the stands of both football clubs. Have I got this wrong? Is my memory failing me? We can also do it at St Johnstone, I have signed up to this but I feel I may have jumped the gun far to early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Boom. This. The continued posting of application numbers by the FC suggests they see getting to 3 hunderd as being an achievment. Beyond that little seems to matter. This doesn't appear to be an inclusive venture. Sadly, the model doesn't appear to have been robustly developed before being launched. THe attitudes on display from FC representitives shows why fan ownership is NOT the way forward. I disagree, under fan ownership the fans, who would effectively be shareholders, would have had a much bigger say. Instead what we seem to have is a small group of fans doing the board's dirty work and telling the rest of us this is how it will be. Interestingly SG is in the Sunday mail saying football should listen to the fans about summer football. Well Stuart how about practising what you preach and have the fans council really represent the fans and canvas us over some of the different ideas brought up here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Zo Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 It's great to hear something in finally happening with regards to fitting out the void. This should have been tackled just after we moved to new stadium. I have a feeling the selling consortium getting together and pushing Gordon Scott out of the equation was a bad move. I feel if GLS had still been onside the likes of this might have been moved forward earlier as he was allegedly very hands on with regards to the day to day build of stadium. I won't be joining as would struggle to use it a handful of times a season and am disappointed I won't be able to use it but such is life. I get that costs have to be met and fairly hefty start up fees have to be in place but hopefully they will drop in seasons to come once they are covered. It would be great if they could have so many members plus so many who could pay on the day. If there are 300 members I am sure most match day's will only see about 150-200 using it. I am sure it will sort itself out in time. Good luck to everyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 SO at least 5 people get made redundant, but no talk of that from anyone, never mind we can, or someone ca,nobody is saying,find the cash to spend on a bar. Remember these guys in the Fans Council gave the Paisley golf club 2,500 quid ,not including bar profits but only handed over 1,110 quid to club ,despite estimating they could handover 1,750 quid Not the best at estimating, now they reckon they can fit out the void for 48k!!, it's in their minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 SO at least 5 people get made redundant, but no talk of that from anyone, never mind we can, or someone ca,nobody is saying,find the cash to spend on a bar. Remember these guys in the Fans Council gave the Paisley golf club 2,500 quid ,not including bar profits but only handed over 1,110 quid to club ,despite estimating they could handover 1,750 quid Not the best at estimating, now they reckon they can fit out the void for 48k!!, it's in their minutes Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Not the best at estimating, now they reckon they can fit out the void for 48k!!, it's in their minutes Can you copy & paste where it says the fitout cost will be £48K? Not that I don't believe you but I can't access the site on my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Proposal for turning the remaining space in the void into a family bar/café area. Costs would be approximately £48,000. This would hold a maximum of 400 but more realistically 300 with some changes to the exits etc. Suggested that membership would be charged at £10 per month to cover the costs for one year. There would be a discounted to £18.77 for couples and families. Children would be free. Agreement in principle has been reached to give Fans Council a lease for all home matches. It could then be used at other times to get revenue for the club, members would get a discount on bookings for this area. Discussion regarding limited membership as this may be seen as exclusive. Counter argument was that membership is open to all fans, on a first come first served basis. Suggested that membership should be rolled out to Fans Council, season ticket holders, then fans. Also suggested that there would be additional benefits which might include online supporter's area, discount in club shop, founders brick in bar area. The area would replicate the Fan Zone. There was a lengthy discussion around not oversubscribing. Discussed the threat of the club being sold and how that might effect subscription. Suggestion that we market in two parts, who wants to build a supporters club for £10 per month to get it up and running. If you are a founding member your names will be on board, no other benefits. Attendance rate can be calculated over first 12 months, this can then be opened up to more members and membership charges can be reduced. Votes : § Do we want to do it as a project - unanimous § Phased launch - unanimous § Fees - £10 per month for 1 year, or £120 up front to be a founding member Future fees to be agreed at future date. Alan W will lead the project and subcommittee. Colin volunteered to project manage with the contractor as he has a lot of experience. Agreed to go to season ticket holders with registration within two week period. If not fully subscribed would be open to all fans. In the meantime the lease would be negotiated. No money would be taken until lease had been agreed - vote passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Nice to see it was to be rolled out to the fans council first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The £48K estimate suggests the Ritz this ain't gonna be. Doesn't filll me with confidence. I certainly couldn't do anything of any quality for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbartonsaint Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Club should be footing the bill...open to all season ticket holders or people buying a ticket on the day for free...run it selling pints, soft drinks, rolls sausages etc...idea of paying membership to go in for a drink before a game just fecking stupid...can't have a pint now and drive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) When we have some midweek games the club don't do hospitality, and instead just open the suite for fans for a fiver that also gets you a drink. I have been about 4 times and it has never looked as if there is most than 100 fans there. Will 300 home fans really pay around £8 per home game just to get a drink ? It would be cheaper just to drink in town and get a taxi. Edited June 29, 2015 by renfrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Exactly. Outsourcing works because it allows those with experience and expertise to provide a service much more efficientlty than could be done internally (and even allowing for their profit uplift can be done cheaper and with less risk). Outsourcing is especially good for an oragnisation with limited management staff (such as SMFC). There are many painshare/gainshare arangements than can be implemented to reward performance or cap profit. i used to work in facilities management and can honestly say that most of the clients ended up paying more for the so-called outsourced services than they did in-house. External providers are good at providing a service but are even better at exploiting contracts and driving up costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civilsaint Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 i used to work in facilities management and can honestly say that most of the clients ended up paying more for the so-called outsourced services than they did in-house. External providers are good at providing a service but are even better at exploiting contracts and driving up costs That can be true, but even then it is risk free to the client. Sometimes paying a premium is wirthwhile to offset risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 i used to work in facilities management and can honestly say that most of the clients ended up paying more for the so-called outsourced services than they did in-house. External providers are good at providing a service but are even better at exploiting contracts and driving up costs working directly with a Subsea company in the catering department we have out sourced a few times only to find they are more expensive and not as high a quality. However the licensing trade is screaming out for more sales. The more sales you have the cheaper the product can be purchased so it would be worth while looking into it. Personally I would look at a smaller local bossiness than a larger company who do weddings and the like. I'm sure the company running hospitality will be in the running. Also puts the club in a stronger negotiation platform when new contracts come around . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the part that it should open to the fans council first. How can it be said that it isn't an elitised cliquethats not fit for purpose when that's in their very own minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dastardly77 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the part that it should open to the fans council first. How can it be said that it isn't an elitised cliquethats not fit for purpose when that's in their very own minutes. Someone did mention it, it was you. If the volunteers of the fans council are putting in unpaid hours of their expertise in setting this up then I don't grudge them having first refusal in a membership ahead of the wider support. Saying that i prefer the suggestion of the 1877 members paying £50 and a first come first served system that every other public bar operates. That's more inclusive and there just has to be flexibility with regards signing in guests. How many of us have friends that support another club and have drank with them before an away match. It would be nice to have a similar facility instead of the private members club cited. Can ordinary fans request items to be discussed at the council meeting? If so then I hope they explore the different options discussed on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Was really interested in this but I can't sign anyone in for a pint and to be honest me having a membership is utterly pointless unless they relax it. I think it is a total rip off. In any club you are generally allowed to sign in a pal. If you could even sign in one non member it would be a help but even then I can't get upfor it. I also think they are ripping the piss with the subscriptions. It's a good idea but this format isn't fan friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 It's not a good idea. The option for a normal fan to roll up.and enjoy a beer is not there. It's a tenner a month.do fifty up top for the privilege. Not for me. I want to be able to go along with pals but it's impossible as if they won't join they can't get in. V disappointed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Someone did mention it, it was you. If the volunteers of the fans council are putting in unpaid hours of their expertise in setting this up then I don't grudge them having first refusal in a membership ahead of the wider support. Saying that i prefer the suggestion of the 1877 members paying £50 and a first come first served system that every other public bar operates. That's more inclusive and there just has to be flexibility with regards signing in guests. How many of us have friends that support another club and have drank with them before an away match. It would be nice to have a similar facility instead of the private members club cited. Can ordinary fans request items to be discussed at the council meeting? If so then I hope they explore the different options discussed on this thread. I meant no-one else. It's not really hours of expertise to make a fans bar though is it? It's a flawed plan to make an exclusive clique with first dibs to the even more exclusive clique that's not open to the whole fan base. If that's the level of expertise then we should be worried. there have been several better plans for it on this thread alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 £10 a month in June and July for literally nothing sounds like a great deal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 SO at least 5 people get made redundant, but no talk of that from anyone, never mind we can, or someone ca,nobody is saying,find the cash to spend on a bar. Remember these guys in the Fans Council gave the Paisley golf club 2,500 quid ,not including bar profits but only handed over 1,110 quid to club ,despite estimating they could handover 1,750 quid Not the best at estimating, now they reckon they can fit out the void for 48k!!, it's in their minutes to be honest, that is a shocking return on the total raised. Even if they raised the estimate that is still too small a proportion of the money raised going to the club Surely there must be a cheaper place to go for the golf day. It doesn't have to be palatial and I am sure other clubs could trump this deal quite comperhensively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 to be honest, that is a shocking return on the total raised. Even if they raised the estimate that is still too small a proportion of the money raised going to the club Surely there must be a cheaper place to go for the golf day. It doesn't have to be palatial and I am sure other clubs could trump this deal quite comperhensively Aye, golf clubs that let Catholics in for a start. Until you know the breakdown this is another daft dig at PGC. You really should let it go, or have you been refused membership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 to be honest, that is a shocking return on the total raised. Even if they raised the estimate that is still too small a proportion of the money raised going to the club Surely there must be a cheaper place to go for the golf day. It doesn't have to be palatial and I am sure other clubs could trump this deal quite comperhensively 64 golfers for golf and food, other members of club staff for food and the shotgun start means the course is closed for almost the full day. Sounds like a decent deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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