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Stubbs can go now


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2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

True, took no joy in it either. 

I can't disregard the quality of opposition when it happens on occasion. We all have bad days. When it's been happening habitually though, it's not acceptable. Especially when one of those four sides also came up with us, finished 13 points behind us last season, have also had the same management issue but retained the majority of their squad and are absolutely competitive on a weekly basis. 

You may feel its my perception of what is happening but the facts back it up. Our own performances aren't actually improving in second halves of games... teams are letting up because they are already well ahead. Much like we did last season at Hutchy Vale. That much is obvious to anyone watching us week in week out. 

Enough to post it at half time. :wink:

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4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

We cannot sack a guy with a 3 year contract when we have just played Aberdeen, Rangers and Hearts away and facing Celtic next.

He needs to be allowed a run of games against our realistic competitors first. Either give him until league match 11 or the end of October at the very least.

Nonsense ! Can you imagine Fergie saying to his players after we won promotion , "It's Celtic lads , they're not our realistic competitors , so if we lose WGAF " :wacko:

Nope , he just sent us out  , you know , the team with about 3 players with top league experience , to beat Celtic at Parkhead twice in the same season !

Realistic competitors ? Don't talk shite !

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2 minutes ago, billyg said:

Nonsense ! Can you imagine Fergie saying to his players after we won promotion , "It's Celtic lads , they're not our realistic competitors , so if we lose WGAF " :wacko:

Nope , he just sent us out  , you know , the team with about 3 players with top league experience , to beat Celtic at Parkhead twice in the same season !

Realistic competitors ? Don't talk shite !

Exactly. Essentially writing off around 40-60% of our league matches before a ball is kicked is a very strange mindset. 

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Livingston haven't changed anything over the past couple of years. 

Gary Blues has intimated who is in charge there and Martindale has been the main man for a while. 

Hopkin and now Holt are employed for pre and post match Media interviews. 

Kenny Miller didn't fit in. 

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24 minutes ago, davidg said:

Stubbs dealings in the transfer market could well be his downfall but the players need to have a long look at themselves, especially the guys who were here last season who seem to be in a bit of a huff. 

I don't blame the players at all , Stubbs is killing the support , doesn't surprise me if the players feel the same way. Get him out and we move on !

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29 minutes ago, davidg said:

Stubbs dealings in the transfer market could well be his downfall but the players need to have a long look at themselves, especially the guys who were here last season who seem to be in a bit of a huff. 

As manager, it is his job to sort that out. If he can't, that says a great deal about whether he is suited to the job or not.

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1 hour ago, Dare said:

For me the central defence is the main problem - we are not winning simple cross balls into the box nor are we dominant in open play - all this is doing is heaping pressure on the midfield as we are being constantly over run. A fit Gary Mac would have made all the difference yesterday - Stubbs has to hold his hands up and admit he’s got it wrong at the back and somehow get a no nonsense centre half from somewhere on a free.

This. Stubbs decision to only sign children to play in the centre of defence is the main reason for my pessimism. They look completely at sea, due to a combination of their inexperience and lack of proper coaching or organisation. This lies with Stubbs, despite him again blaming the players.

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Just now, faraway saint said:

Like you did yesterday by betting on the other team? :lol:

Once again, I gamble on form. The form yesterday suggested a comprehensive home win.

I'd have been delighted with a strong performance yesterday that goosed my bet all ends up.

You're really struggling with this, aren't you/

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Just now, djchapsticks said:

Once again, I gamble on form. The form yesterday suggested a comprehensive home win.

I'd have been delighted with a strong performance yesterday that goosed my bet all ends up.

You're really struggling with this, aren't you/

Ah, form, like the team at the top beating a newly promoted team?

So why the meltdown when the game went to form? 

Did Fergie go with form, although why people keep referring to a one off managerial genius is frankly hilarious. 

You're not getting this are you? 

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Ah, form, like the team at the top beating a newly promoted team?

So why the meltdown when the game went to form? 

Did Fergie go with form, although why people keep referring to a one off managerial genius is frankly hilarious. 

You're not getting this are you? 

Once again, I refer back.

Had we started the season competitively, holding our own against teams like Aberdeen and Rangers but going down at least with a bit of fight and dig, I'd have left yesterday well alone. I've seen us get enough unexpected results down the years (both positive and negative) to know that we're not a good coupon team and are volatile to say the least.

However, we've been tepid so far. We've shown nothing to inspire any sort of confidence since the Dundee game....in the weeks since those performances, nothing has changed to suggest that there would be anything other than another tepid performance yesterday so it made sense to me to back that accordingly. I genuinely don't care if you or anyone else has a problem with me backing against St. Mirren as it doesn't dilute my support for the club or the team in anyway. It was a purely logical decision to do so when there were generous odds on offer.

As for your second point, you've actually answered your own question. The fact that the game, once again, went to form is the exact reason for the overall meltdown and the reason that Stubbs should lose his job. That our form is now 'games lost in first half hour, it's damage limitation from here on out, boys' is frankly embarrassing.  Under no circumstances should we be going 'Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Old Firm are all write-offs, lets see how we do with the rest' but unfortunately, that's what we seemingly ARE doing.

I have also not once mentioned Sir Alex Ferguson in this or any other thread. I don't get why you are attributing his name to one of my posts. I liked a BillyG post about how he once decided not to respect teams based on reputation and that's a philosophy I'd wholeheartedly agree with but that's not a Fergie trait, that should be instilled in every manager of a club our size.

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34 minutes ago, davidg said:

And if the players decide they don’t like or think the next manager is shite? 

No players from last season have done that. However when you need to go in and work for an idiot every day it is understandable you end up demoralised.

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9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Once again, I refer back.

Had we started the season competitively, holding our own against teams like Aberdeen and Rangers but going down at least with a bit of fight and dig, I'd have left yesterday well alone. I've seen us get enough unexpected results down the years (both positive and negative) to know that we're not a good coupon team and are volatile to say the least.

However, we've been tepid so far. We've shown nothing to inspire any sort of confidence since the Dundee game....in the weeks since those performances, nothing has changed to suggest that there would be anything other than another tepid performance yesterday so it made sense to me to back that accordingly. I genuinely don't care if you or anyone else has a problem with me backing against St. Mirren as it doesn't dilute my support for the club or the team in anyway. It was a purely logical decision to do so when there were generous odds on offer.

As for your second point, you've actually answered your own question. The fact that the game, once again, went to form is the exact reason for the overall meltdown and the reason that Stubbs should lose his job. That our form is now 'games lost in first half hour, it's damage limitation from here on out, boys' is frankly embarrassing.  Under no circumstances should we be going 'Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Old Firm are all write-offs, lets see how we do with the rest' but unfortunately, that's what we seemingly ARE doing.

I have also not once mentioned Sir Alex Ferguson in this or any other thread. I don't get why you are attributing his name to one of my posts. I liked a BillyG post about how he once decided not to respect teams based on reputation and that's a philosophy I'd wholeheartedly agree with but that's not a Fergie trait, that should be instilled in every manager of a club our size.

Dont waste your time, the guy is just a troll.

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1 hour ago, billyg said:

I don't blame the players at all , Stubbs is killing the support , doesn't surprise me if the players feel the same way. Get him out and we move on !

Even Stephen Mcginn's standards have dropped and he's  great player. We need a good manager to drag us out this mini rut. I don't want us making the same mistake as we did with Craig and holding on to him too long.

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6 hours ago, Kemp said:

Cant believe we are now at the level of taking postivies from Hearts ramming 4 past us in one half.

Hang your head in shame you alleged St Mirren fans. STUBBS OUT. And the faraway fuds too.

 

7 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Dont waste your time, the guy is just a troll.

Says the numbnut who says St Mirren fans should hang their heads in shame. :thumbsdown

Oh tantrum, another slithering entry onto the forum. :lol:

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This was  Daniel Morrow's  run down on what was thought to be the top 7 managers to replace Jack Ross....

(as most are still being touted)

Robbie Neilson

Neilson’s successes at Hearts, alongside his intent for his team to play with an emphasis on a free-flowing passing game is likely to excite the Buddies. Following automatic promotion from the Scottish Championship ahead of Hibernian and a substantially wealthier Rangers side, Neilson led the Edinburgh side to the Europa League in his first season in the top flight. His success led to a spell with MK Dons and following a poor spell of one win in 11 matches, Neilson left the club by mutual consent earlier this year.

Verdict

His record in Scotland speaks for itself, but his eagerness to have a crack at a so-called greater opportunity may lead to him using the club as a potential stepping stone if he performs well.

Jim Goodwin

Goodwin is regarded as a legend following the club’s League Cup victory in 2013. After an ill-fated spell as coach at St Mirren, Goodwin has made a post-playing career recovery by taking Alloa back up to the Championship. His side defeated Dumbarton in the promotion play-off, where they recovered from a goal down in the first leg, winning 2-1 on aggregate. That fighting spirit is reminiscent of his days as a Saints player – the fans will be hoping that he can carry his playing success into management.

Verdict

Likely to win immediate backing from supporters given his stature as a player, but his lack of experience in the dugout is a risk. The budget any manager is likely to receive will be less so than the majority of the league, so fighting spirit in the opening season may work in Saints favour.

Alan Stubbs

Led Hibernian to Scottish Cup victory for the first time in 114 years, but was unable to secure promotion from the Scottish Championship in the two years he spent as manager. Upon securing the Scottish Cup, Stubbs left Hibs to join Rotherham United for a short spell, where he managed just one victory in 14 games, conceding 37 goals. Since this role, he has appeared regularly on BT Sport as a pundit.

Verdict

His success in the Scottish Cup is hard to argue against, but lacks the same charisma of Jack Ross which should make him unlikely to make the shortlist.

David Hopkin

Unlucky not to be nominated for PFA Scotland’s Manager of the Year given his achievements at Livingston. Following promotion from Scottish League One, Livingston were among the favourites to be relegated at the beginning of the 2017/18 season. However, Hopkin instilled a high work ethic amongst his players and boasted an incredibly strong January transfer window, signing the likes of Jordan Thompson, Ryan Hardie and Lee Miller who all proved vital in the run in to the play-offs.

Verdict

Likely to be of interest to various other clubs, with Carlisle rumoured to be speaking to him about their vacancy. His achievements are undeniable, but would he leave Livingston for another Premiership club given the backing the board have given him?

Jim McIntyre

Been out of work since September of last year, and many have claimed his sacking led to Ross County’s fall into the Scottish Championship. McIntyre’s recent credentials are strong, having guided the Highland side to League Cup victory, winning the club’s first major honour in 2016. In the same season, McIntyre took the club to their first top-six finish in the top flight. Additionally, he previously led Dunfermline into the top flight in the 2010/11 and has steered Queen of the South to the play-offs.

Verdict

Has expressed his eagerness to return to football, and with a CV such as this, it will not be long before he finds himself back in work. However, has had issues with continuity in his squad, which is reflected upon the fact he signed 49 new players in his three years as County manager.

Danny Lennon

Another club legend having led to St Mirren to their first major honour in 26 years. Lennon’s contract was not renewed by Saints in 2014 after the club finished eighth in the Scottish Premiership. His brand of football was lauded by critics up and down Scotland for their positive style. Following a poor spell at Alloa Athletic and an interim period at Airdrieonians, Lennon is currently the boss at Clyde, where his side were unlucky to miss out on the promotion play-offs.

Verdict

The League Cup win in 2013 will forever live in the memory of Saints fans, however it is likely Lennon will attempt to give David Goodwillie a shortcut back into the top flight following a 20+ goal season with Clyde. Given Goodwillie’s off-field antics, St Mirren should certainly avoid. As for Lennon, many will feel he should never have been sacked in the first place

Graeme Murty

Took over Rangers when the club were in a dire situation as a result of the failed Pedro Caixinha experiment. Rangers ended this season finishing third, with Murty leading the club for the majority of it. Graeme Murty was relieved of his head coaching duties in April but remains a paid employee of the club. Rangers expressed in a statement that they were willing for him to return to the club as youth coach, but right now this seems unlikely.

Verdict

Would be an complete step in the wrong direction for St Mirren. In a season where the club mostly needs stability in order to survive, the last thing they need is a manager with a short history of instability.

 

 

Edited by Buddie Marvelous
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https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/7-st-mirren-manager-candidates-12591284

Interesting to note that A poll of those top 7 managers, (at the time), Alan Stubbs came out second last!

Robbie Nelson..........36%

Jim Goodwin.............13%

David Hopkin.............13%

Graham Murty...........12%

Jim McKintyre...........11%

Alan Stubbs.................9%

Danny Lennon...........6%

:o

 

 

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Even Stephen Mcginn's standards have dropped and he's  great player. We need a good manager to drag us out this mini rut. I don't want us making the same mistake as we did with Craig and holding on to him too long.

Good players flourish alongside good players. Yesterday for the 3rd or 4th goal, the ball floated towards our defence, on the replay you can actively see him anticipating Kpekawa to win the ball - McGinn was thinking ahead and about breaking up the park. CK then half-heartedly engaged and lost out, Hearts ran through on goal and scored. IMO the frustration was clear in McGinn’s body language. No wonder he is a shadow of himself (even at that he is streets ahead of most of our squad).
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We cannot sack a guy with a 3 year contract when we have just played Aberdeen, Rangers and Hearts away and facing Celtic next.
He needs to be allowed a run of games against our realistic competitors first. Either give him until league match 11 or the end of October at the very least.


I understand that point of view but believe it’s the sort of “wee team” mentality that will send us right back down. Every team in the league is a realistic competitor. We’ve all watched enough football over the years to know that when you start looking at games in this manner (i.e. we’ll lose that game but should pick up something there) you end up with egg on your face.

John Wooden used to say that the team with the best players almost always wins. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Hearts all have immeasurably better squads than us and will finish higher up the league than us but that doesn’t mean we can’t give them the occasional bloody nose and it certainly doesn’t mean we should get turned over inside 20mins each time we play them home or away.

Livi, probably with a smaller budget than us have lost 3-1 at Celtic, drawn with Killie and beaten ourselves and Hibs. Why can they achieve that and we’ve got to suffer the sort of gutless performances we’ve seen thus far? Maybe nobody sent them the the script?
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2 hours ago, billyg said:

Nonsense ! Can you imagine Fergie saying to his players after we won promotion , "It's Celtic lads , they're not our realistic competitors , so if we lose WGAF " :wacko:

Nope , he just sent us out  , you know , the team with about 3 players with top league experience , to beat Celtic at Parkhead twice in the same season !

Realistic competitors ? Don't talk shite !

I agree with the sentiment of your post Billy in the sense of having an “already defeated” attitude. However you can’t seriously compare the difference between us and Celtic back then to today. It’s night and day. The old firm didn’t have everything their own way back then and were reasonably regularly beaten by many teams, not just us. 

Hiw many times have we beaten Celtic in the last 30 years? 3 jump out at me. The Mowbray game, the Mehmet penalty cup tie, and the league cup semi final. In fact how many times do Celtic lose or drop points in a season these days. Very rarely. If it’s ever understandable to think you’re going to lose a game these days, then it’s against Celtic.

To repeat, I agree with the sentiment, but the comparison to the Fergie years is way off the mark. 

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I agree with the sentiment of your post Billy in the sense of having an “already defeated” attitude. However you can’t seriously compare the difference between us and Celtic back then to today. It’s night and day. The old firm didn’t have everything their own way back then and were reasonably regularly beaten by many teams, not just us. 
Hiw many times have we beaten Celtic in the last 30 years? 3 jump out at me. The Mowbray game, the Mehmet penalty cup tie, and the league cup semi final. In fact how many times do Celtic lose or drop points in a season these days. Very rarely. If it’s ever understandable to think you’re going to lose a game these days, then it’s against Celtic.
To repeat, I agree with the sentiment, but the comparison to the Fergie years is way off the mark. 


We’re always going to lose more to the big teams than we win but belief and confidence are so important in sport and give you a realistic platform to challenge the bigger, stronger, faster teams or individuals.

There’s little point in debating this, however, the way things are going for this team they’ll be heading into games against Hamilton and Killie expecting to get turned over unless something changes soon.
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